Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them? - Page 6

Art Eatman · February 12, 2010, 11:12 PM

I guess I look at different sorts of motivations before making a judgement.

Killing "just for the hell of it" or purely for the fun of killing is Bad News. Wrong. Killing and then wasting an edible animal is wrong. The taxidermist example is pertinent.

Enjoying the success of a kill for which there is some rational reason is IMO a normal human-nature reaction. To me, it doesn't matter what animal is involved; game, pest or predator.

I dunno why people get all exercised about Wily Coyote and want to "save" him. He's a predator, for one thing; controlling his numbers helps prey species which are of interest to us at the top of the food chain. We could include our housepets as prey items, for that matter. Unfortunately for some of us, however, coyotes have done a few attacks on children in the Tucson area, and killed a woman up in Canada not long ago.

Foreign game? Why not? Whether culling an elephant herd of dozens of the creatures, or taking a trophy which provides large amounts of cash money to the local villagers--as well as meat--no animal lives forever. No hunter does, either.

IMO, the proper mindset for a trophy is to provide a memory of the package that is a good hunt. If nothing else, it immortalizes that one particular animal well beyond any other memory about him. I can look up on the wall above this monitor at my one and only antelope and remember the people, the day, the ranch, the other wildlife--all that. But the hunt was thirteen years ago. Will folks remember YOU, thirteen years after you're dead?

banditt007 · February 13, 2010, 12:10 AM

I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone.

reloader28 · February 13, 2010, 12:13 AM

Uncle Buck
I think that could go either way.
Bobcats dont do that much damage around here, any that I know of, and I only seen 2 brief glimpses of them. They are not really a threat ,but if I happen to get a chance to shoot one, you better believe I'm going to shoot him just to put the fur on the wall.
I dont consider myself a prick for that.

I do agree that the people that shoot only for horns and leave the meat should be strung up.
But I dont agree that these kind of people are responsible for some animals going extinct. Plain fact is there are so many people in this world that they have to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the animals territory. The animals have to move or face extinction. Its more a matter of they are losing their home and die out in my opinion. But what do you do? You cant stop the human population growth.
I know this is not always the case, but it seems like most of the time it is.

45Gunner · February 13, 2010, 12:39 AM

Bud, for clarification, it should be in the hunting forum. Far be it from me to be put in a position to prevent people from expressing their views but the subject matter is not apropos to guns. It has become an issue of whether or not it is sporting to kill animals and that goes beyond the scope of a gun discussion. I vote to move it to the proper place.

Thanks for listening to what I have to say. Stuff like this makes me feel older than I normally feel as I have seen so much destruction in life that I don't want to see it in places I like to visit and participate. And....I don't want to appear as a narrow minded old grump. I've said my piece. Take out of it what you think it's worth.

M77 · February 13, 2010, 12:56 AM

I haven't read any of the previous posts so sorry if this is a repeat. Yes, I know many people who kill just to kill. Just in the past month I know of several unethical decisions made by "hunters." Examples include shooting a beaver with a 22 and leaving it dead and walking through the woods shooting into every squirrel nest with a shotgun just to get one to run out. As far as coyotes, most people in the east shoot them because they are a non-native predator. We wouldn't have this problem if there wasn't a niche to fill. With the extirpation of mountain lions and wolves, the coyote has found a very productive place to make a living. While there aren't many species that will prey in coyotes, they are most certainly controlled through natural processes (prey cycles etc.). I support those whe shoot coyotes for the reason that they are a non-native species. However, I think that people should think about the whole native vs. non-native phenomonon. The distribution of species has changed numerous times throughout history due to changing climates and other factors. Many specis that would be considered non-native at a certain place at the present time would have been found there a long time ago.

Big Bill · February 13, 2010, 02:13 AM

I shoot coyotes for the hides and only when the fur is prime. I'd never shoot a coyote just to waste it. I admire the little critters.

bamaranger · February 13, 2010, 05:51 AM

of course, there are no natural predators either on coyotes.

They seem extremely numerous, w/ tracks, scat and howling packs easily observed. Some fairly well thought out studies are indicating that areas w/ heavy coyote numbers will have reduced deer herds. A summer scat study yielded fawn hair in 80-80% of coyote scat examined. I have seen to many coyotes stalking turkey decoys and responding to my spring turkey calls not to believe they are hard on turkeys as well.

Ground hogs used to be very common in my area, but no longer. There demise is attributed to the coyote, who locate the dens and lay in wait for a chuck sandwich. People are losing pets to 'yotes, I've heard more than one story of people seeing their dog killed by a coyote pack. Anybody that raises or keeps any type of fowl on their place will be no fan of the coyote either.

It is not shooting fish in a barrel. Coyotes are slick, with tremendous nose and canine intelligence. With all the dedicated predator hunting, all the "Bubba's" blazing away when one is spotted, and no protection by any agency short of the preserves and National Parks ( they are universally labled a predator and pest by every game and fish dept I am aware of) the coyote is doing fine, w/ increasing numbers and expanded range.

BTW, though its not an absolute, I seldom see a road-killed coyote, they are way to sharp for that.

roy reali · February 13, 2010, 06:53 AM

I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone.

My experience backs this up.

I used to live in the middle of a mjor California city. It has a nice river that runs through the middle of it. Along the river, miles of nature trails have been put in place. About ten years ago I got a puppy and used to go to the river trails with her for our adventures.

The first couple of years there we saw many, many feral cats. Not much else as far as wildlife went, including birds. My third year exploring this ecosystem has me seeing a coyote now and then. By the fourth year coyotes were becoming more common. In fact that spring the county posted coyote warning signs along the river. Apparently some female coyotes had nested in the area and they had become very aggressive towards dogs, even charging them when on a leash.

I also noticed an increase in the number of birds in the area. Quail coveys were becoming larger and more common. I even started to take my call there for practice. One time my calling lured a coyote of the bushes. Feral cat spottings were becoming fewer and farther between. A conversation with a park ranger confirmed my theory. The coyotes moved in, the feral cats disappeared, the birds returned.

Ain't nature wonderful?

shortwave · February 13, 2010, 08:36 AM

I`ve not read through this thread in its entirety but I did read the OP and a few reply`s.

No disrespect to the OP but would it be fair to ask if your from the city? Reason I ask this is its apparent you`ve NOT seen the distruction/killing coyotes do to livestock/wildlife if there population is not kept in check.

IMO, the title of this thread 'Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them' and the example of the coyote used in the OP`s opening comment doesn`t make sense.

I don`t know the populace of coyote in Arizona but the coyote is a problem in Ohio.

This thread reminds me of the thread a while back on shooting feral pigs in which alot of people that lived in states without a hog problem blasted those that are shooting feral hogs simply cause they(the people that don`t understand the distruction the feral hog are doing) haven`t experienced any problems.
We need to remember, a certain species of animal thats not a problem in one region may be a problem in another. Hence the next coment.

There was a reason DNR`s in many states had/has a bounty on coyote AND there`s no closed season. Along with different bag limits/legal hunting season`s on different species

As to 'killing an animal just for the sake of killing it', I don`t believe in it but in these parts the title of this thread and the example used ???

Quote:

I seldom see a road-killed coyote, they are way to sharp for that

Hey bama, don`t think our yote`s here in Ohio are that sharp. I see (on the average) 1-2 every month or so.
Course if you do much driving here you`ll understand many driver`s aren`t that sharp either. hehe.

Art Eatman · February 13, 2010, 09:41 AM

Banditt007, coyotes eating cats in the boonies is indeed a good thing. However, coyotes eating Fluffy Poo-tat in a residential yard is a different matter entirely.

L_Killkenny · February 13, 2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Banditt007, coyotes eating cats in the boonies is indeed a good thing. However, coyotes eating Fluffy Poo-tat in a residential yard is a different matter entirely.

I might agree with your Art if it wasn't for the fact you're talking about CATS! Yuck! Them and little foo-foo dogs. Let the coyotes have em.

LK

Art Eatman · February 13, 2010, 07:01 PM

Well, Kilkenny, it's not important if you or I like or dislike cats. I hate to see some kid's eyes when he figures out that a favorite pet is gone.

My dislike for little yap-dogs is insignificant, compared to the companionship felt by some little old lady.

longlane · February 13, 2010, 07:41 PM

Here in the SE, you can hardly even get a wildlife officer/National Forest Ranger to admit coyotes are even here. I assure you, as someone who has been woken up by a pack of over 10 outside my window (and fence), they are breeding like rabbits and have no natural predators here. Our deer population is indeed going down, and farmers have tried to report attacks on fawns and domesticated critters too (ex. calves) witnessed first hand during field work, but, of course, we're too stupid and guv'mint folks are too smart to ever believe us common citizens. People have been attacked in their suburban yards here. They're showing up in Charlotte, NC, and even Central Park in NYC. Um, it might be time to admit populations are booming nationwide, but, then again, what do I know? I'm not an enlightened city dweller

m.p.driver · February 13, 2010, 07:53 PM

Haven't actually been hunting in years,used to love to go rabbit and squirrel hunting.Grouse,pheasant and quail nothing better.
However i have recently shot feral cats,dogs and coydogs.I don't consider that hunting ,its taking care of a problem.The rabbit population dwindled because of the feral cats,and lost several calf's to the dogs.
Do i get enjoyment out of it,no its just something that has to be done.Do i feel bad,no i feel pi**ed off at the people that dump their animals off on the side of the road and have to fend for themselves.

Big Bill · February 13, 2010, 08:42 PM

m.p. - I hear ya man. When I lived in the country a few years ago, we had dogs and cats dropped off at the rate of about three every week. The county wouldn't take them at the pound or do anything about the situation. So, between the neighbors and me we used loads of 22 shells cleaning up the problem. At the time I had sheep and goats and some expensive big game hounds and couldn't take any chances of disease transfer to my hounds or wanton killing of my flock.

One side note about cats: Why do people who live in town just let their cats run free? People with cats should be just a respectful of their neighbors as people with dogs are. I hate other people's cats in my yard. And, BTW, Art most of those little old ladies you're talking about have 15 or 20 cats hanging around that they feed and then don't take care of them otherwise. So, that the feral cats multiply without restraint.

Uncle Buck · February 14, 2010, 09:31 AM

Some people have no concept of what hunting is (and it is all different to all of us) and they want to sit in judgement of others.

I have neighbors that moved in from the city. All wildlife is "Pretty" to them, and they must spend a couple of hundred bucks a month feeding them critters.
They take a 10 pound bag of cat food and just tear it open and leave it on their porch for the cats, coons and what-ever else happens to come in. When they forget to feed the critters, they come wandering over to my place.

I was talking to a local conservation officer and he said he had talked to them before about feeding the feral and wild animals. There is a river running through their property and the wildlife follow it. There is a college about 10 miles from my place and when college lets out, there is a definite increase in the cat population.

A/C Guy · February 14, 2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Come on down to TX and tell the cattle ranchers that the coyote population is "controlled." You might just get laughed off your northeastern high horse.

The funny part is that he isn't form the northeast, he is from Tucson, Az.
If he would come up to Phoenix and I can show him our coyote population is way out of control. If he hunted quail, he would know the coyotes are decimating the quail population around the state.

zahnzieh · February 14, 2010, 09:34 PM

When was the last time you saw a coyote hit by a car? They are far too intelligent to get hit unless sick, wounded etc.. No. their population is out of control, attacking livestock, pets and spreading disease. A friend of mine lost a german shepard to a pair of coyotes! I have to say they also keep the feral cat population down in urban areas (another out of control predator). I wish snares were legal in a lot more states, easier than leg-hold traps. In wild places they are not necessarily out of control, it is in metro-fringe areas where the real problem is, they eat garbage, cats, wildlife because of them being the oppurtunists that they are.

knoxville · February 14, 2010, 10:15 PM

we all just need to realize that is us hunters and you.... non hunters or animal activist or whomever else is replying on here but we need to just face the facts that no matter how much we argue we're not going to change anyones minds, beliefs or actions and its a waste of or time, energy and efforts as long as we have or guns we'll do what we do and you can all get together and talk about how you are against it.

Art Eatman · February 15, 2010, 09:03 AM

zahnzieh, it's a rare trip on I-10 from Tallahassee to Fort Stockton that I DON'T see at least one or two dead coyotes alongside the road.

Anybody from Tucson should know of the news reports of a couple of attacks on small children, as well as the commonplace killing of pets.

longlane · February 15, 2010, 09:34 AM

zahnzieh: Actually, it's interesting that you would ask. Driving from central SC to northeastern NC, I noted two in my last drive. From central SC to central NC, I noted one between Charlotte and Greensboro. All three of these were in relatively rural locales--all on I-85 too... The coyote carcasses were in the median in each situation.

XD Gunner · February 15, 2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

But their population IS controlled, by natural predation, animal control, and accidental car deaths. Cougars eat coyotes.

Really? Well that's good to know, except we don't have Cougars in SE Kentucky. Their population is NOT controlled. It was said earlier in the thread, they are like rats and will populate until their food source is gone. Their food source being small farm animals.

birdshot · February 15, 2010, 01:57 PM

on my last road trip, an iron butt, i tallied road kill, from nebraska to corpus christi: coyotes were only slightly edged out by racoons which numbered around 60.

L_Killkenny · February 15, 2010, 02:03 PM

A lot of the statements here against shooting critters like coyotes is much the same as was being said about the Mountain Lions in CA a few years ago. City dwellers and many in the country thought that because they never saw em it meant they weren't many around and thus needed protected. Now in CA. they have a problem and they are arguing with the bunny huggers over the best way to solve it. Meanwhile, many others are just performing the three S's and going about life.

Coyotes left unchecked are a problem and many times they are still a problem even in areas of high hunting pressure. Once you have coyotes in your area it's 100% impossible to remove them completely, If you don't want to believe this there is nothing I can do to change you mind. Maybe when a yote takes fluffy you will change your mind as many in CA> are doing about the Mountain Lions.

LK

Wrothgar · February 15, 2010, 05:06 PM

I'm no "northeastern lib" like you all will think I am; I'm from Oklahoma and have lived in Texas for 8 years.

I grew up with plenty of people that went out shooting animals because it gave them pleasure to kill something.

That said, I understand how coyotes can be pests and kill livestock and I've seen firsthand the damage that pigs can do. However, people should be aware that there are people out there that get itty bitty stiffies from shooting animals.

February 13, 2010, 12:39 AM	#129
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Bud, for clarification, it should be in the hunting forum. Far be it from me to be put in a position to prevent people from expressing their views but the subject matter is not apropos to guns. It has become an issue of whether or not it is sporting to kill animals and that goes beyond the scope of a gun discussion. I vote to move it to the proper place. Thanks for listening to what I have to say. Stuff like this makes me feel older than I normally feel as I have seen so much destruction in life that I don't want to see it in places I like to visit and participate. And....I don't want to appear as a narrow minded old grump. I've said my piece. Take out of it what you think it's worth. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

February 13, 2010, 02:13 AM	#131
Big Bill Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,053	I shoot coyotes for the hides and only when the fur is prime. I'd never shoot a coyote just to waste it. I admire the little critters. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." - General George Patton Jr

February 13, 2010, 05:51 AM	#132
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	In Alabama....... of course, there are no natural predators either on coyotes. They seem extremely numerous, w/ tracks, scat and howling packs easily observed. Some fairly well thought out studies are indicating that areas w/ heavy coyote numbers will have reduced deer herds. A summer scat study yielded fawn hair in 80-80% of coyote scat examined. I have seen to many coyotes stalking turkey decoys and responding to my spring turkey calls not to believe they are hard on turkeys as well. Ground hogs used to be very common in my area, but no longer. There demise is attributed to the coyote, who locate the dens and lay in wait for a chuck sandwich. People are losing pets to 'yotes, I've heard more than one story of people seeing their dog killed by a coyote pack. Anybody that raises or keeps any type of fowl on their place will be no fan of the coyote either. It is not shooting fish in a barrel. Coyotes are slick, with tremendous nose and canine intelligence. With all the dedicated predator hunting, all the "Bubba's" blazing away when one is spotted, and no protection by any agency short of the preserves and National Parks ( they are universally labled a predator and pest by every game and fish dept I am aware of) the coyote is doing fine, w/ increasing numbers and expanded range. BTW, though its not an absolute, I seldom see a road-killed coyote, they are way to sharp for that.

February 13, 2010, 06:53 AM	#133
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Great Point I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone. My experience backs this up. I used to live in the middle of a mjor California city. It has a nice river that runs through the middle of it. Along the river, miles of nature trails have been put in place. About ten years ago I got a puppy and used to go to the river trails with her for our adventures. The first couple of years there we saw many, many feral cats. Not much else as far as wildlife went, including birds. My third year exploring this ecosystem has me seeing a coyote now and then. By the fourth year coyotes were becoming more common. In fact that spring the county posted coyote warning signs along the river. Apparently some female coyotes had nested in the area and they had become very aggressive towards dogs, even charging them when on a leash. I also noticed an increase in the number of birds in the area. Quail coveys were becoming larger and more common. I even started to take my call there for practice. One time my calling lured a coyote of the bushes. Feral cat spottings were becoming fewer and farther between. A conversation with a park ranger confirmed my theory. The coyotes moved in, the feral cats disappeared, the birds returned. Ain't nature wonderful?

February 13, 2010, 07:41 PM	#138
longlane Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 162	Sorry SteelJM1, the population is not controlled... Here in the SE, you can hardly even get a wildlife officer/National Forest Ranger to admit coyotes are even here. I assure you, as someone who has been woken up by a pack of over 10 outside my window (and fence), they are breeding like rabbits and have no natural predators here. Our deer population is indeed going down, and farmers have tried to report attacks on fawns and domesticated critters too (ex. calves) witnessed first hand during field work, but, of course, we're too stupid and guv'mint folks are too smart to ever believe us common citizens. People have been attacked in their suburban yards here. They're showing up in Charlotte, NC, and even Central Park in NYC. Um, it might be time to admit populations are booming nationwide, but, then again, what do I know? I'm not an enlightened city dweller __________________ In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. -T.W. Last edited by longlane; February 13, 2010 at 07:57 PM.

February 12, 2010, 11:12 PM	#126
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I guess I look at different sorts of motivations before making a judgement. Killing "just for the hell of it" or purely for the fun of killing is Bad News. Wrong. Killing and then wasting an edible animal is wrong. The taxidermist example is pertinent. Enjoying the success of a kill for which there is some rational reason is IMO a normal human-nature reaction. To me, it doesn't matter what animal is involved; game, pest or predator. I dunno why people get all exercised about Wily Coyote and want to "save" him. He's a predator, for one thing; controlling his numbers helps prey species which are of interest to us at the top of the food chain. We could include our housepets as prey items, for that matter. Unfortunately for some of us, however, coyotes have done a few attacks on children in the Tucson area, and killed a woman up in Canada not long ago. Foreign game? Why not? Whether culling an elephant herd of dozens of the creatures, or taking a trophy which provides large amounts of cash money to the local villagers--as well as meat--no animal lives forever. No hunter does, either. IMO, the proper mindset for a trophy is to provide a memory of the package that is a good hunt. If nothing else, it immortalizes that one particular animal well beyond any other memory about him. I can look up on the wall above this monitor at my one and only antelope and remember the people, the day, the ranch, the other wildlife--all that. But the hunt was thirteen years ago. Will folks remember YOU, thirteen years after you're dead?

February 13, 2010, 12:10 AM	#127
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone.

February 13, 2010, 12:13 AM	#128
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Uncle Buck I think that could go either way. Bobcats dont do that much damage around here, any that I know of, and I only seen 2 brief glimpses of them. They are not really a threat ,but if I happen to get a chance to shoot one, you better believe I'm going to shoot him just to put the fur on the wall. I dont consider myself a prick for that. I do agree that the people that shoot only for horns and leave the meat should be strung up. But I dont agree that these kind of people are responsible for some animals going extinct. Plain fact is there are so many people in this world that they have to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the animals territory. The animals have to move or face extinction. Its more a matter of they are losing their home and die out in my opinion. But what do you do? You cant stop the human population growth. I know this is not always the case, but it seems like most of the time it is.

February 13, 2010, 12:56 AM	#130
M77 Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 21	I haven't read any of the previous posts so sorry if this is a repeat. Yes, I know many people who kill just to kill. Just in the past month I know of several unethical decisions made by "hunters." Examples include shooting a beaver with a 22 and leaving it dead and walking through the woods shooting into every squirrel nest with a shotgun just to get one to run out. As far as coyotes, most people in the east shoot them because they are a non-native predator. We wouldn't have this problem if there wasn't a niche to fill. With the extirpation of mountain lions and wolves, the coyote has found a very productive place to make a living. While there aren't many species that will prey in coyotes, they are most certainly controlled through natural processes (prey cycles etc.). I support those whe shoot coyotes for the reason that they are a non-native species. However, I think that people should think about the whole native vs. non-native phenomonon. The distribution of species has changed numerous times throughout history due to changing climates and other factors. Many specis that would be considered non-native at a certain place at the present time would have been found there a long time ago.

February 13, 2010, 09:41 AM	#135
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Banditt007, coyotes eating cats in the boonies is indeed a good thing. However, coyotes eating Fluffy Poo-tat in a residential yard is a different matter entirely.

February 13, 2010, 07:01 PM	#137
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Well, Kilkenny, it's not important if you or I like or dislike cats. I hate to see some kid's eyes when he figures out that a favorite pet is gone. My dislike for little yap-dogs is insignificant, compared to the companionship felt by some little old lady.

February 13, 2010, 07:53 PM	#139
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	Haven't actually been hunting in years,used to love to go rabbit and squirrel hunting.Grouse,pheasant and quail nothing better. However i have recently shot feral cats,dogs and coydogs.I don't consider that hunting ,its taking care of a problem.The rabbit population dwindled because of the feral cats,and lost several calf's to the dogs. Do i get enjoyment out of it,no its just something that has to be done.Do i feel bad,no i feel pi**ed off at the people that dump their animals off on the side of the road and have to fend for themselves.

February 13, 2010, 08:42 PM	#140
Big Bill Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,053	m.p. - I hear ya man. When I lived in the country a few years ago, we had dogs and cats dropped off at the rate of about three every week. The county wouldn't take them at the pound or do anything about the situation. So, between the neighbors and me we used loads of 22 shells cleaning up the problem. At the time I had sheep and goats and some expensive big game hounds and couldn't take any chances of disease transfer to my hounds or wanton killing of my flock. One side note about cats: Why do people who live in town just let their cats run free? People with cats should be just a respectful of their neighbors as people with dogs are. I hate other people's cats in my yard. And, BTW, Art most of those little old ladies you're talking about have 15 or 20 cats hanging around that they feed and then don't take care of them otherwise. So, that the feral cats multiply without restraint. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." - General George Patton Jr

February 14, 2010, 09:31 AM	#141
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Some people have no concept of what hunting is (and it is all different to all of us) and they want to sit in judgement of others. I have neighbors that moved in from the city. All wildlife is "Pretty" to them, and they must spend a couple of hundred bucks a month feeding them critters. They take a 10 pound bag of cat food and just tear it open and leave it on their porch for the cats, coons and what-ever else happens to come in. When they forget to feed the critters, they come wandering over to my place. I was talking to a local conservation officer and he said he had talked to them before about feeding the feral and wild animals. There is a river running through their property and the wildlife follow it. There is a college about 10 miles from my place and when college lets out, there is a definite increase in the cat population. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 14, 2010, 09:34 PM	#143
zahnzieh Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Posts: 206	When was the last time you saw a coyote hit by a car? They are far too intelligent to get hit unless sick, wounded etc.. No. their population is out of control, attacking livestock, pets and spreading disease. A friend of mine lost a german shepard to a pair of coyotes! I have to say they also keep the feral cat population down in urban areas (another out of control predator). I wish snares were legal in a lot more states, easier than leg-hold traps. In wild places they are not necessarily out of control, it is in metro-fringe areas where the real problem is, they eat garbage, cats, wildlife because of them being the oppurtunists that they are.

February 14, 2010, 10:15 PM	#144
knoxville Member Join Date: December 31, 2009 Location: pocatello,Id - rock springs,wy Posts: 83	we all just need to realize that is us hunters and you.... non hunters or animal activist or whomever else is replying on here but we need to just face the facts that no matter how much we argue we're not going to change anyones minds, beliefs or actions and its a waste of or time, energy and efforts as long as we have or guns we'll do what we do and you can all get together and talk about how you are against it. __________________ To hunt the ghost in the darkness you must first find were he sleeps

February 15, 2010, 09:03 AM	#145
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	zahnzieh, it's a rare trip on I-10 from Tallahassee to Fort Stockton that I DON'T see at least one or two dead coyotes alongside the road. Anybody from Tucson should know of the news reports of a couple of attacks on small children, as well as the commonplace killing of pets.

February 15, 2010, 09:34 AM	#146
longlane Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 162	Coyotes on the highway... zahnzieh: Actually, it's interesting that you would ask. Driving from central SC to northeastern NC, I noted two in my last drive. From central SC to central NC, I noted one between Charlotte and Greensboro. All three of these were in relatively rural locales--all on I-85 too... The coyote carcasses were in the median in each situation. __________________ In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. -T.W.

February 15, 2010, 01:57 PM	#148
birdshot Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: north platte nebraska Posts: 344	on my last road trip, an iron butt, i tallied road kill, from nebraska to corpus christi: coyotes were only slightly edged out by racoons which numbered around 60.

February 15, 2010, 02:03 PM	#149
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	A lot of the statements here against shooting critters like coyotes is much the same as was being said about the Mountain Lions in CA a few years ago. City dwellers and many in the country thought that because they never saw em it meant they weren't many around and thus needed protected. Now in CA. they have a problem and they are arguing with the bunny huggers over the best way to solve it. Meanwhile, many others are just performing the three S's and going about life. Coyotes left unchecked are a problem and many times they are still a problem even in areas of high hunting pressure. Once you have coyotes in your area it's 100% impossible to remove them completely, If you don't want to believe this there is nothing I can do to change you mind. Maybe when a yote takes fluffy you will change your mind as many in CA> are doing about the Mountain Lions. LK

February 15, 2010, 05:06 PM	#150
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	I'm no "northeastern lib" like you all will think I am; I'm from Oklahoma and have lived in Texas for 8 years. I grew up with plenty of people that went out shooting animals because it gave them pleasure to kill something. That said, I understand how coyotes can be pests and kill livestock and I've seen firsthand the damage that pigs can do. However, people should be aware that there are people out there that get itty bitty stiffies from shooting animals.