February 19, 2008, 09:18 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 23, 2007
Posts: 188
|
Traffic Stop Question
Not sure if this is the right area to post but its about guns and car and cops so i figured maybe....my question is that if i have a gun in my trunk...no ammo...just gun... and i get pulled over do i have to tell the cop or no?...and second at what point can i cop search my vehicle without my consent becuase ive been hearing around my town that cops are just searching people for no good reason...is that legal with no probable cause?
__________________
"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once." -- William Shakespeare |
February 19, 2008, 09:25 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Location: NWFL
Posts: 3,031
|
Would you tell him about the microwave you have in the trunk?
|
February 19, 2008, 09:34 PM | #3 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 23, 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 169
|
I wouldn't volunteer that information. I've been there in the back of the patrol car in handcuffs while two officers stripped my vehicle just for giggles and grins for over an hour.
I might tell an officer if I am wearing a gun and inform him that I have a permit if he asks for me to come back to his car with him. |
February 19, 2008, 09:45 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 15, 2007
Posts: 1,040
|
If the officer asks if you have any weapons, tell him/her. If not, you don't have to volunteer anything.
|
February 19, 2008, 10:37 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 23, 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 5,210
|
I too have been in the back of a blue and white, cuffed while my car was searched. I didnt singal at a light, cop lit me up, i consented to the search. I was sixteen in a car covered in dead stickers with hair down to my shoulders, I had it coming...I only tell them if the gun is on me and loaded (the law in VA) or in reach and loaded. I've found that cops dont wanna be around people with guns, permit or no permit. When I tell them Im carrying, they make quick work of that ticket or warning and I'm on my way...
|
February 19, 2008, 10:42 PM | #6 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
|
First off, what state are you in? Different states have different rules. In Ohio, you'd be OK. Other states? Well, I'll let folks here tell you the rules in their states, although I think you might have a problem in NY.
Quote:
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you? I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie |
|
February 19, 2008, 10:47 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Posts: 1,512
|
depends on where you live
over here only if they ask |
February 19, 2008, 10:55 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 23, 2007
Posts: 188
|
great old california...worst state to own a gun in!!!
__________________
"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once." -- William Shakespeare |
February 20, 2008, 12:12 AM | #9 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
|
Epic,
You do not need to answer any question an officer asks you during a car stop according to the courts. It'll probably make him suspicious however. If the gun is in the trunk, you can answer "no" because the gun is not "in" the in car with you, it is in a separate, locked container called the trunk. That qualifies, legally, as a "locked container" for transporting your firearm (provided it locks and there is no passenger compartment easy access). Quote:
If an officer has good probable cause to believe you are committing a crime, about to commit one or you have committed a crime, he will search your vehicle based on his PC. If he's unsure his PC is good enough, he may ask you to consent to a search, either verbally or by signing a form. Lots of cops will simply ask and some folks will consent to show how cooperative they are. Other cops will make it sound like a command "Would you open your trunk for me sir?" to which a legitimate response by the driver would be "For what purpose officer?" What forms "probable cause" for a search? Quote:
Likewise, an observant officer notes that the driver keeps checking that the console compartment is closed may know this is an unintentional sign that a weapon is concealed in the console. If the driver appears jittery, nervous or distracted, this may lead him to conclude that the driver has a no-no in the console compartment.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately) |
||
February 20, 2008, 12:16 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 1999
Location: West of the Pecos
Posts: 671
|
Cap'n Charlie:
Quote:
I'm a reserve deputy, with a CCW too. I don't care if LE knows I have a permit and/or am carrying...I follow the law. I would guess, and it's only a guess, that most cops worry more about the folks packing who don't have a permit, and who they therefore don't know are carrying. Agree? |
|
February 20, 2008, 12:38 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 19, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 810
|
Quote:
When I was in that line of work (although we rarely pulled anyone over), if I wanted to know what was in the car, I'd ask. Problem is, people get diarrhea of the mouth when a cop pulls them over or questions them, etc. Part of it is intimidation, part of it is "wanting to please," and part of it is a perpetual guilty conscience that may have zilch to do with whatever the cop is discussing with you. As a civilian and ex-cop, my advice to my friends if they're ever pulled over, stopped or questioned is "Don't tell the cops jackcrap unless they make you, and NEVER volunteer any information whatsoever. Keep your answers confined to "yes," "no," "I don't recall," and "I don't know." NEVER consent to a search of your car EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER without a signed search warrant. And while they're getting the warrant (takes a while), start calling every civil rights lawyer in the phonebook and asking them to meet you wherever you're at. This probably isn't real fair to the good cops, but if you've done nothing wrong, you'll probably never run into a good cop. Good cops are out there working to catch real criminals rather than traffic violators. Good cops have no interest in hassling, intimidating and bullying otherwise law-abiding citizens who maybe rolled through a red light--good cops deal with REAL criminals and don't need to hassle Suzy Soccer-Mom or Andy Accountant in order to make them feel like "a real cop." When I was undercover with the feds, I got hassled by so many [color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color] traffic cops that I finally reached the point of filing reports on them with whatever state licensed them. Ones that insisted on searching my car WITHOUT my permission ended up wearing their own handcuffs and spending time in MY judicial system. And some of y'all would be flat sick to your stomachs if you knew just how many ended up getting arrested and convicted for illegal searches. When you go from "peace officer" to "law enforcement," it ushers in a whole new mentality. And I'm not sure it's the best or right mentality to have. Jeff
__________________
If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing. |
|
February 20, 2008, 12:41 AM | #12 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
|
Quote:
That happens several times during a shift, & it's a pain in the butt as radio traffic goes crazy asking "do you need backup?", etc.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you? I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie |
|
February 20, 2008, 07:12 AM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Location: NWFL
Posts: 3,031
|
Quote:
|
|
February 20, 2008, 08:52 AM | #14 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 296
|
First of all, If you have a gun in the trunk, you are not armed and I wouldn't volunteer that information.
Above all, be cooperative. You do not have to consent to a search. Just tell the officer to run you (he will anyway) and he will see that you are a law abiding citizen. Just tell them you do not want your seats removed and personnal property gone through. If he proceeds to search anyway, it is an unlawful search because he didn't have proble cause and anything he finds will be inadmissable in court. Do not let him goad you into allowing him to search your vehilce. If it gets nasty, tell him to get a search warrant. Be cool and calm througout the stop because you don't have any choice. |
February 20, 2008, 11:25 PM | #15 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 23, 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 169
|
In Wyoming, if asked, you must present your permit immediately. But the law doesn't say that you have to tell the officer.
Here in the northwestern part of Wyoming, Jackson Hole area, we have way too many enforcement types for the size of the area. We have park rangers, game and fish, highway patrol, sheriff, and city police. This is a one main road town and I think the different agencies have to compete with each other because there are only so many people here. I was pulled over for coasting by a ranger at 40 mph in a posted 55. He had his lights on on the side of the road (had no one pulled over) in a stretch that visibility is probably 5 miles. He thought I could have moved over further even though there was oncoming traffic, and he thought I could have slowed down further. It was the beginning of bear season. I had a bear tag and was coming back from doing a little hiking. I was dressed in full camo, so he knew I had a gun. He asked, "By the way, do you have a weapon in your vehicle"? He kept telling me that he was concerned about his safety. He freaked when I told him I had three .500's on me. I hunt with pistols sometimes. One had a scope, one with open sights, and one in a short barrel carry type pistol. I've been charged by multiple animals before and so now I am not bashful about the firepower I carry because of the animals in the areas that I hunt in. He called for backup. They kept telling me how cooperative I was being. I think I was too cooperative. I almost think I'd rather die than be in handcuffs again. I can handle a lot, but I can't handle being in a very small area in the back of a squad car in cuffs. I told him I needed some air when one of them came back to check on me once. Of course they told me to be calm. I don't know how to handle that in the future. Citizens who have done nothing wrong should not have to be in handcuffs. |
February 21, 2008, 01:49 AM | #16 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 23, 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 169
|
By the way, this is what I had on me at the time.
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/...hp?pic_id=3299 One of the ranger's comments was, "This looks like it would be dangerous." as he pulled one of the .500's out of the shoulder holster while my hands were handcuffed behind my back. |
February 21, 2008, 02:55 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 389
|
...
Quote:
__________________
"You can all go to hell, I'm going to Texas." ---Colonel David Crockett Matt 6:33 |
|
February 21, 2008, 11:49 AM | #18 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 296
|
WYOCARP,
I think I would complain to the higher ups about being cuffed and placed in a vehicle. They had no cause to do what they did and you would expect to find people with guns in that area at that time of year. If you didn't give them any indication that they should be in fear of their lives, why put you through all of that. That is about the same as approaching a man with a shotgun during duck season and hooking him up. One thing to remember, some of the people who are hired for enforcement jobs are not always the sharpest people on the planet. |
February 21, 2008, 11:59 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 19, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 810
|
Quote:
Jeff
__________________
If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing. |
|
February 21, 2008, 12:15 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 17, 2002
Posts: 195
|
in oklahoma you are required by law to inform the officer if you have a gun on you any time you come in contact with them. your sda license can be revoked if you don't.
|
February 21, 2008, 12:17 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Ft Stewart, GA
Posts: 932
|
Over 30 years ago I was on my first cross-country drive from Minneapolis to Phoenix where I had been assigned (Air Force then). Didn't have a permit but I also didn't want to travel alone unarmed. I had my S&W 28 tucked in between my right leg and the center console. I was about 30 miles west of Amarillo when the blue lights went on behind me and needless to say I was concerned. It was a Texas Ranger approaching my car and this guy was huge and well armed.
What to do? When he got to my window, I kept both hands on the wheel and immediately told him what I had tucked next to me. He reached down and put his hand on what I think was a Ruger Redhawk .44 and opened my door with the other hand. He asked me to slowly exit the vehicle - which I did carefully. I then presented my Minnesota drivers license and my military ID card and explained the purpose of my "armed" trip. To my utter surprise, he grinned at me, told me to be careful and commented that I had done exactly the right thing during this stop. He then told me the reason he pulled me over was to worn me of black ice on the road up ahead. Have had a soft spot in my heart for Texas Rangers since this day - this guy was a class act...
__________________
Proud to be a veteran. (USAF Retired, Army Civilian) I'm old, grumpy, and jaded - still vertical though... |
February 21, 2008, 02:35 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 5, 2005
Posts: 459
|
To TexasSeaRay: I share your distatste for overzealous cops, and especially ones who abuse and violate the law themselves. No argument there. But I take a different turn from you regarding law enforcement. Traffic laws are important, and I pay taxes which pay a sallary to the LEOs to enforce them too. They are important because the roads would be unsafe without traffic laws and rules, and those rules would have no effect if they were not enforced. In fact, I think it's lazieness and a desire to avoid stops (which always have the potential to be dangerous, or at leastr less comfortable than the patrol car) and paperwork. In short, traffic rules and their enforcement is very much important to all of our safety, and should be given the due respect they deserve. It isn't a priority over muggers etc, but if otherwise not so engaged cops should bust violaters.
Running red lights in my neighborhood doesn't make you Andy the accountant my friend, it makes you Andy the self important "-rear end of a donkey- hole" who places his own wants and desires ahead of the rights and safety of others. |
February 21, 2008, 02:42 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 1999
Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse
Posts: 4,190
|
Quote:
|
|
February 21, 2008, 02:52 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 19, 2007
Posts: 2,663
|
Wyocarp- I think then it's time to turn the tables on types like that. When they take the cuffs off, say, "Oh, hey, no problem Say, mind if I get a business card from you? Just uh, going to run this by my attorney- I dont think you did any thing wrong, you understand, but hey you cant be too safe these days, can you? Hey, what was the incident number for this stop? And your supervisors name? Is he available, by any chance?"
Smile- be nice- but don't let it go. Supervisor, Chief, City Manager, and so on. |
February 21, 2008, 03:00 PM | #25 |
Member
Join Date: October 14, 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 64
|
I wouldn't give any information unless asked. If the gun is not on your person and you are asked if you are carrying any weapons I would answer no. In NY you are not required to inform an officer that you are carrying.
__________________
Sig P226R-Navy, Sig P229 Nitron 9mm, S&W Model 520-HIVIZ .357, Ruger Security Six |
|
|