Hi There!

KevininPa · May 18, 2007, 10:56 AM

Hello All,
Newbie here. Just purchased a Ruger Old Army and all the fixins' to fire it. Followed the guns manual and advice from the owner of Dixon's Muzzleloading shop and had a good time shooting it. Did a lot of researching and lurking in forums prior to the purchase for information. Came up with this article and was wondering what others take on it would be:

http://www.svartkrutt.net/engkjedeant.php

Hopefully that comes up as a link. If not, can be pasted. I have to admit that I agree. If a ball is loaded in tight( I used the Wonder Wads with a .457 ball for my first outing), it should be as tight a seal as a cartridge or maybe even tighter. And I certainly don't use grease or Bore-Butter over my .357.
Just wondering what more you more experienced folk think about this.

Kevin in Pa

wolverine350 · May 18, 2007, 11:03 AM

Welcome aboard Kevin

mykeal · May 18, 2007, 02:46 PM

Svartkrutt spends a lot of time proving the obvious: a properly loaded chamber is highly unlikely to chainfire, with or without grease sealing the chamber. Interesting that he felt it necessary to conduct an experiment to "disprove" the unsealed chamber thesis, but made no attempt to "prove" his own thesis as to why chainfires might have occurred. The quotes are because his experiment, which is all that it is, is hardly proof one way or another; chainfires are rare (I've only seen two in 40 years of shooting bp), so one simple experiment with less than several thousand attempts in no way constitutes either proof or the lack of it.

I use a lubed felt overpowder wad. I also ensure my caps are fully seated and of the right size and the bullets, whether rb or conicals, are properly sized and seated. I think this provides sufficient protection from a chainfire, regardless of what the source might be, and it has been successul so far. I do not use grease or bullet lube to seal the chamber, simply because I think it's messy. I don't particularly care what the "old timers" used to do; I'm doing what I think is necessary and sufficient.

Xwingnut · May 19, 2007, 09:44 PM

I use both felt and bore butter for several reasons. The soft lead RB need lubrication hence Bore Butter, I want the bores of my BP firearms to have seasoned bores for easy clean up and rust prevention hence Bore Butter.

The felt wads do a nice job preventing chain fire but provide no lubrication for the RB because it is behind the bullet.

Another reason for bore butter is to keep the fouling soft between shots.

Shoot your revolver with out bore butter for awhile and take note of the cleaning process and how long it takes to get a clean patch out. Then use bore butter for at least 5 or 6 cylynders and note how fast it cleans up.

My 2 cents

marcseatac · May 20, 2007, 01:05 AM

The felt wads do lubricate. I notice the lube star on the muzzle of my BP pistols after a day of shooting. The pressure forces the lube out of the wad and coats the bbl on each and every shot!

I get mine at Cabelas.

mykeal · May 20, 2007, 06:59 AM

Marcseatac and xwingnut are both correct - the lubed felt wad (not all of them are lubed - you can get dry wads too) does not provide much, if any, effective lube for the shot on which it is used. It does apply lube to the chamber and bore to help in softening fouling and lubrication for subsequent shots.

Using both a lubed overpowder wad and overball grease is overkill in my opinion but there's no down side to that. If you want to be sure of your results I say go for it.

I personally now use just the lubed wad and have been satisfied with it. The few times that I've used both (Bore Butter for grease) I did notice the bore seemed cleaner, longer, but in the long run it took longer to load and was messier. Now that I use 777 the majority of the time I don't feel it's worth the extra effort to add the grease, but it's just a personal choice.

O.S.O.K. · May 20, 2007, 02:29 PM

I agree that the chain fires most likely are caused by the cap end and not the chamber end igniting.

I personally start out my shooting sessions with the revolver barrel already sporting some bore butter for the first shot. I use lubed felt wads and they keep the bore lubed and I never experience any leading at all.

I also get good accuracy.

Thus far, I have used Pyrodex P exclusively and find it to be a very good option - burns pretty cleanly and as mentioned, gives good accuracy.

Goex fffg may work even better but I haven't tried it yet to compare.

Welcome to the board Kevin.

KevininPa · May 22, 2007, 10:27 AM

Thanks for the welcomes and sorry about beating a dead horse. Went back to earlier threads looking for info on conicals and other stuff. Saw that this topic was covered ad nauseum.
I'll probably stick with wads to make clean-up easier and fill some space for lighter target loads. Found a recipe to make some, so I can shoot a little cheaper. Was mainly wondering about needing the lube because I would like to load a little easier in the field. This is now the second of my two heavy caliber revolvers. These are the ones that go camping. Now I can leave the Smith with the wife in camp. Only other things I have are my .380 carriers and she's a rotten shot with semi's. This way if I do a little stump plinkin', reloads will go a little quicker. Intend to get a R&D cylinder for the woods later in the year. Nice firearm, full size target with a high gloss, stainless finish, bright orange front ramp.

May 18, 2007, 10:56 AM	#1
KevininPa Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2007 Posts: 253	Hi There! Hello All, Newbie here. Just purchased a Ruger Old Army and all the fixins' to fire it. Followed the guns manual and advice from the owner of Dixon's Muzzleloading shop and had a good time shooting it. Did a lot of researching and lurking in forums prior to the purchase for information. Came up with this article and was wondering what others take on it would be: http://www.svartkrutt.net/engkjedeant.php Hopefully that comes up as a link. If not, can be pasted. I have to admit that I agree. If a ball is loaded in tight( I used the Wonder Wads with a .457 ball for my first outing), it should be as tight a seal as a cartridge or maybe even tighter. And I certainly don't use grease or Bore-Butter over my .357. Just wondering what more you more experienced folk think about this. Kevin in Pa

May 18, 2007, 11:03 AM	#2
wolverine350 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2006 Location: ponca city ok Posts: 746	Welcome aboard Kevin __________________ CVA Kodiak Magnum .50 cal Marlin 981T 22LR Bolt Action Remington 770 Bolt Action 270 Thompson Center Encore 243

May 19, 2007, 09:44 PM	#4
Xwingnut Junior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Posts: 3	Bore Butter LUBE I use both felt and bore butter for several reasons. The soft lead RB need lubrication hence Bore Butter, I want the bores of my BP firearms to have seasoned bores for easy clean up and rust prevention hence Bore Butter. The felt wads do a nice job preventing chain fire but provide no lubrication for the RB because it is behind the bullet. Another reason for bore butter is to keep the fouling soft between shots. Shoot your revolver with out bore butter for awhile and take note of the cleaning process and how long it takes to get a clean patch out. Then use bore butter for at least 5 or 6 cylynders and note how fast it cleans up. My 2 cents

May 20, 2007, 06:59 AM	#6
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	You're both right... Marcseatac and xwingnut are both correct - the lubed felt wad (not all of them are lubed - you can get dry wads too) does not provide much, if any, effective lube for the shot on which it is used. It does apply lube to the chamber and bore to help in softening fouling and lubrication for subsequent shots. Using both a lubed overpowder wad and overball grease is overkill in my opinion but there's no down side to that. If you want to be sure of your results I say go for it. I personally now use just the lubed wad and have been satisfied with it. The few times that I've used both (Bore Butter for grease) I did notice the bore seemed cleaner, longer, but in the long run it took longer to load and was messier. Now that I use 777 the majority of the time I don't feel it's worth the extra effort to add the grease, but it's just a personal choice.

May 20, 2007, 02:29 PM	#7
O.S.O.K. Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2007 Posts: 122	chainfires I agree that the chain fires most likely are caused by the cap end and not the chamber end igniting. I personally start out my shooting sessions with the revolver barrel already sporting some bore butter for the first shot. I use lubed felt wads and they keep the bore lubed and I never experience any leading at all. I also get good accuracy. Thus far, I have used Pyrodex P exclusively and find it to be a very good option - burns pretty cleanly and as mentioned, gives good accuracy. Goex fffg may work even better but I haven't tried it yet to compare. Welcome to the board Kevin.

May 18, 2007, 02:46 PM	#3
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Svartkrutt spends a lot of time proving the obvious: a properly loaded chamber is highly unlikely to chainfire, with or without grease sealing the chamber. Interesting that he felt it necessary to conduct an experiment to "disprove" the unsealed chamber thesis, but made no attempt to "prove" his own thesis as to why chainfires might have occurred. The quotes are because his experiment, which is all that it is, is hardly proof one way or another; chainfires are rare (I've only seen two in 40 years of shooting bp), so one simple experiment with less than several thousand attempts in no way constitutes either proof or the lack of it. I use a lubed felt overpowder wad. I also ensure my caps are fully seated and of the right size and the bullets, whether rb or conicals, are properly sized and seated. I think this provides sufficient protection from a chainfire, regardless of what the source might be, and it has been successul so far. I do not use grease or bullet lube to seal the chamber, simply because I think it's messy. I don't particularly care what the "old timers" used to do; I'm doing what I think is necessary and sufficient.

May 20, 2007, 01:05 AM	#5
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	The felt wads do lubricate. I notice the lube star on the muzzle of my BP pistols after a day of shooting. The pressure forces the lube out of the wad and coats the bbl on each and every shot! I get mine at Cabelas.

May 22, 2007, 10:27 AM	#8
KevininPa Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2007 Posts: 253	Field loading Thanks for the welcomes and sorry about beating a dead horse. Went back to earlier threads looking for info on conicals and other stuff. Saw that this topic was covered ad nauseum. I'll probably stick with wads to make clean-up easier and fill some space for lighter target loads. Found a recipe to make some, so I can shoot a little cheaper. Was mainly wondering about needing the lube because I would like to load a little easier in the field. This is now the second of my two heavy caliber revolvers. These are the ones that go camping. Now I can leave the Smith with the wife in camp. Only other things I have are my .380 carriers and she's a rotten shot with semi's. This way if I do a little stump plinkin', reloads will go a little quicker. Intend to get a R&D cylinder for the woods later in the year. Nice firearm, full size target with a high gloss, stainless finish, bright orange front ramp. Last edited by KevininPa; May 22, 2007 at 12:26 PM.