thumb placement on straight grip stocks

Mausermolt · May 9, 2013, 02:01 PM

does anyone have a problem with their thumb on your trigger hand, hitting yourself in the nose when you shoot? more specifically when i shoot my mosins, i wrap my thumb over the top of the tang and if i dont pay attention when i light her off WACK! my thumb will bop my nose. do most of you just point your thumb toward the muzzle? or something else? i tried the thumb pointed forward thing, but it just felt so uncomfortable.

Erno86 · May 9, 2013, 02:30 PM

Me being a right handed shooter...I try to keep my firing hand thumb on the right hand side of the receiver, inline with the barrel, because I've read that it helps prevent a flinch.

Mausermolt · May 9, 2013, 08:50 PM

hmm...never heard of the prevents flinching thing...maybe ill give it another try.

PVL · May 9, 2013, 09:21 PM

I have owned several rifles with straight grips, and have never had my thumb hit my nose.

Both nose and thumb are large, but they do not seem to interfere with each other, somehow. I always put the thumb over the grip for a secure hold.

Maybe you are crawling the stock, putting your head further forward than is necessary. - It's hard to really say though, everybody is built different.

My son shoots with his thumb straight forward, not over the grip. He shoots and controls the gun well, so I've never seen any reason to say anything about it.

Bart B. · May 10, 2013, 06:37 AM

Competitive shooters using rifles with heavy trigger pulls (3 to 5 pounds) have learned that they need to grip the stock's pistol grip firmly. Otherwise, their trigger finger doesn't stay put when the trigger's back against its stop and the rifle moves off its point of aim before the bullet clears the muzzle.

Folks shooting M1 and M14 service rifles in sitting and prone usually put their cheek hard against their thumb wrapped around the top of the grip so their cheek does not get smacked by the thumb; thumb and cheek go back from recoil together.

Even with light trigger pulls (less than 2 pounds), better accuracy is attained by wrapping ones thumb over the grip. This makes for more consistant trigger pulling.

If in any position with your thumb over a straight grip ends up smacking your cheek and you don't want to press your cheek hard against that thumb, add an inch to the length of pull by a thick recoil pad. Or put a spacer between the butt plate and stock.

Mausermolt · May 11, 2013, 10:30 AM

Right on! thanks Bart. so its a length of pull issue rather than a technique issue. i dont really want to modify my mosin by adding a longer pad...so i suppose ill just deal with what ive got. thanks again!

Sarge · May 11, 2013, 11:13 AM

In my experience that generally means a particular stock is too short for me. I've never had it happen with a straight stock but I will sure do it with my wife's cut-down Remington Model 78 bolt action, if I don't watch myself.

Don't believe I'd ever get used to not wrapping my thumb over a rifle stock. Old dogs...

Salmoneye · May 11, 2013, 12:02 PM

Only gun that I have ever hit myself with my thumb is a Chicom SKS...

stubbicatt · May 12, 2013, 06:26 AM

My M1a and M1 both used to bust my upper lip with the receiver shroud/cover. The only way I could find to mitigate was the really high grip with the web of the thumb wrapped around the shroud an the lip on the thumb. After awhile it just sort of all works together.

On most of my other rifles I will point the shooting thumb towards the muzzle along the stock/receiver mating area, or another suitable spot.

Bart B. · May 12, 2013, 07:28 AM

Mausermolt, it's not a length of pull issue rather than a technique issue. It is a technique issue. One can adjust their position to put their cheek properly on the stock regardless of the length of pull. How else do all sizes/shapes of people shoot M1, M14 or M16 type service rifles in competition and each rifles fixed size is managed by everyone such that head placement is right and so is trigger pull.

stubbicatt, the same issue mentioned above with M1 and M14/M1A rifles is mastered by folks wrapping their trigger hand thumb over the top of the pistol grip then putting their cheek bone hard against it with clearance behind the receiver 'hump' (the proper name for what you're calling the shroud/cover) so their head moves back with the rifle during recoil. They also have to grip the stock quite hard/firm to repeatably manage their trigger pull for each shot. One cannot do that with any rifle unless their trigger hand's wrapped around the grip of the stock. Even Olympians with 14 pound free rifles with 3 ounce triggers shooting .22 rimfire ammo have to do that for best scores.

Mausermolt · May 13, 2013, 08:05 AM

if you look both rifles have very different style stocks. the M1 having more of a pistol grip than the mosin. My M1 i have no problem shooting. i shoot the heck out of it and have never had my thumb hit my nose. the mosin on the other hand i do it all the time. so how can the technique be the issue when you say that both rifle shave the same problem with many people?

Bart B. · May 13, 2013, 08:40 AM

Mausermolt asks me "so how can the technique be the issue when you say that both rifles have the same problem with many people?"

All those many people who have a problem don't use the right technique. Those that do, specifically the Russians and North Koreans, didn't seem to have a problem with them. Nor did I shooting two Mosins my high school friend's Dad brought back from Korea in the early 1950's and we both shot them a lot without any thumb-smacking on our faces.

When with a Navy unit training the 1971 Naval Academy freshman class rifle marksmanship with the Garand, some had problems with their thumbs smacking their face when the M1 fired. After we showed those kids how to properly grip the stock and position their head in all shooting positions, no more problems. Like all those other country's military people with Mosins, all those thousands of folks shooting the Garand in competiton never had a problem after learning and doing all the right stuff.

It all boils down to learning how to positioning ones body and adapt ones holding techniques to the rifle's shape.

Sarge · May 13, 2013, 09:29 AM

SorryBart. I don't care what the military teaches. Too short of a stock will give this old country boy a bloody nose. I suspect there are others like me

. I've done the empirical, scientific research on this topic that I care to do.

Erno86 · May 13, 2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Where you put your thumb is of little concern. What does matter is that you avoid imparting any directional pressure on the stock with your thumb.

Quote: Rifle Grip Technique - Precision Rifle - Bolt Gun - M-4 Carbine.Net Forums

Mausermolt · May 14, 2013, 11:05 AM

either way, it sounds like it gives me an excuse to go shoot my mosin more!

good thing ive got lots of boo-lits for it

May 9, 2013, 02:01 PM	#1
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	thumb placement on straight grip stocks does anyone have a problem with their thumb on your trigger hand, hitting yourself in the nose when you shoot? more specifically when i shoot my mosins, i wrap my thumb over the top of the tang and if i dont pay attention when i light her off WACK! my thumb will bop my nose. do most of you just point your thumb toward the muzzle? or something else? i tried the thumb pointed forward thing, but it just felt so uncomfortable. __________________ Molon Labe

May 9, 2013, 02:30 PM	#2
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Me being a right handed shooter...I try to keep my firing hand thumb on the right hand side of the receiver, inline with the barrel, because I've read that it helps prevent a flinch. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

May 9, 2013, 08:50 PM	#3
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	hmm...never heard of the prevents flinching thing...maybe ill give it another try. __________________ Molon Labe

May 11, 2013, 10:30 AM	#6
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	Right on! thanks Bart. so its a length of pull issue rather than a technique issue. i dont really want to modify my mosin by adding a longer pad...so i suppose ill just deal with what ive got. thanks again! __________________ Molon Labe

May 11, 2013, 11:13 AM	#7
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	In my experience that generally means a particular stock is too short for me. I've never had it happen with a straight stock but I will sure do it with my wife's cut-down Remington Model 78 bolt action, if I don't watch myself. Don't believe I'd ever get used to not wrapping my thumb over a rifle stock. Old dogs... __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

May 9, 2013, 09:21 PM	#4
PVL Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2013 Posts: 169	I have owned several rifles with straight grips, and have never had my thumb hit my nose. Both nose and thumb are large, but they do not seem to interfere with each other, somehow. I always put the thumb over the grip for a secure hold. Maybe you are crawling the stock, putting your head further forward than is necessary. - It's hard to really say though, everybody is built different. My son shoots with his thumb straight forward, not over the grip. He shoots and controls the gun well, so I've never seen any reason to say anything about it.

May 10, 2013, 06:37 AM	#5
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Competitive shooters using rifles with heavy trigger pulls (3 to 5 pounds) have learned that they need to grip the stock's pistol grip firmly. Otherwise, their trigger finger doesn't stay put when the trigger's back against its stop and the rifle moves off its point of aim before the bullet clears the muzzle. Folks shooting M1 and M14 service rifles in sitting and prone usually put their cheek hard against their thumb wrapped around the top of the grip so their cheek does not get smacked by the thumb; thumb and cheek go back from recoil together. Even with light trigger pulls (less than 2 pounds), better accuracy is attained by wrapping ones thumb over the grip. This makes for more consistant trigger pulling. If in any position with your thumb over a straight grip ends up smacking your cheek and you don't want to press your cheek hard against that thumb, add an inch to the length of pull by a thick recoil pad. Or put a spacer between the butt plate and stock.

May 11, 2013, 12:02 PM	#8
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Only gun that I have ever hit myself with my thumb is a Chicom SKS...

May 12, 2013, 06:26 AM	#9
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	My M1a and M1 both used to bust my upper lip with the receiver shroud/cover. The only way I could find to mitigate was the really high grip with the web of the thumb wrapped around the shroud an the lip on the thumb. After awhile it just sort of all works together. On most of my other rifles I will point the shooting thumb towards the muzzle along the stock/receiver mating area, or another suitable spot.

May 12, 2013, 07:28 AM	#10
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Mausermolt, it's not a length of pull issue rather than a technique issue. It is a technique issue. One can adjust their position to put their cheek properly on the stock regardless of the length of pull. How else do all sizes/shapes of people shoot M1, M14 or M16 type service rifles in competition and each rifles fixed size is managed by everyone such that head placement is right and so is trigger pull. stubbicatt, the same issue mentioned above with M1 and M14/M1A rifles is mastered by folks wrapping their trigger hand thumb over the top of the pistol grip then putting their cheek bone hard against it with clearance behind the receiver 'hump' (the proper name for what you're calling the shroud/cover) so their head moves back with the rifle during recoil. They also have to grip the stock quite hard/firm to repeatably manage their trigger pull for each shot. One cannot do that with any rifle unless their trigger hand's wrapped around the grip of the stock. Even Olympians with 14 pound free rifles with 3 ounce triggers shooting .22 rimfire ammo have to do that for best scores.

May 13, 2013, 08:05 AM	#11
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	if you look both rifles have very different style stocks. the M1 having more of a pistol grip than the mosin. My M1 i have no problem shooting. i shoot the heck out of it and have never had my thumb hit my nose. the mosin on the other hand i do it all the time. so how can the technique be the issue when you say that both rifle shave the same problem with many people? __________________ Molon Labe

May 13, 2013, 08:40 AM	#12
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Mausermolt asks me "so how can the technique be the issue when you say that both rifles have the same problem with many people?" All those many people who have a problem don't use the right technique. Those that do, specifically the Russians and North Koreans, didn't seem to have a problem with them. Nor did I shooting two Mosins my high school friend's Dad brought back from Korea in the early 1950's and we both shot them a lot without any thumb-smacking on our faces. When with a Navy unit training the 1971 Naval Academy freshman class rifle marksmanship with the Garand, some had problems with their thumbs smacking their face when the M1 fired. After we showed those kids how to properly grip the stock and position their head in all shooting positions, no more problems. Like all those other country's military people with Mosins, all those thousands of folks shooting the Garand in competiton never had a problem after learning and doing all the right stuff. It all boils down to learning how to positioning ones body and adapt ones holding techniques to the rifle's shape.

May 13, 2013, 09:29 AM	#13
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	SorryBart. I don't care what the military teaches. Too short of a stock will give this old country boy a bloody nose. I suspect there are others like me . I've done the empirical, scientific research on this topic that I care to do. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

May 14, 2013, 11:05 AM	#15
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	either way, it sounds like it gives me an excuse to go shoot my mosin more! good thing ive got lots of boo-lits for it __________________ Molon Labe