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Old December 9, 2012, 07:21 AM   #26
Salmoneye
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I will never fathom why some people can't understand that "All guns are loaded always"...

A seriously tragic situation...
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Old December 9, 2012, 09:09 AM   #27
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Shouldn't the headline read that the child was killed in a parking lot, they weren't in the store.
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Old December 9, 2012, 09:23 AM   #28
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While it doesn't take much effort to check that the chamber is empty (or not), this type accident seems to always happen with a semi-automatic. While it is possible that a revolver could be mostly empty, but contain one round in the chamber that rotates to the barrel as the trigger is pulled, it is obviously less likely. But it seems the very individuals who are not following safety rules are the same folks who will gravitate toward having a semi-auto, probably because that is what they see on TV.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Suffice it to say, the right of self defense is not a writ from government. It is a right the inheres in us as men. In fact, it is a right inhering unto every living creature. It is a right that predates the Constitution and the Magna Carta. And no government rightly usurps that right.
My feeling is that it is not only a right, but a responsibility to God to try to protect the life He has given you. I am not a "Bible thumper" but I do have some religious beliefs.
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Old December 9, 2012, 11:16 AM   #30
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I'm saddened by this and other incidents involving children and firearms. My prayers go out to those people.

These things CAN be avoided however with proper education and practicing proper safety rules whenever handling or even just around firearms.

Just as the antis will take these incidents as chances to preach their anti-gun opinions and desires we as firearms enthusiasts should take these as chances to educate and teach others about firearms (the truth).

If everyone knew NOT to carry the gun with their finger on the trigger or NOT to assume the gun isn't loaded etc. and actually put that knowledge into practice then these NDs would be greatly reduced. If everyone also taught their young children properly about firearms then we wouldn't have incidents regarding kids who shot themselves or others while playing with mom/dad's gun.

As a responsible firearm owner and enthusiast I make it a point to educate my kids from very early on about proper respect and handling of firearms. I also bear in mind that my EDC is always loaded and cocked (unless its been stripped for cleaning in which case its simply not possible for the gun to go off when its sitting on the work bench in pieces).

In order to protect what limited freedoms we have today we need to be more active (not just reactive but PROACTIVE) in teaching others the truth about firearms and also in practicing what we teach on a daily basis.
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Old December 9, 2012, 04:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa
Many people think that the safety rules are only about preventing an incident in the present, but that's only part of it. Practicing muzzle control religiously is done to ingrain the behavior so that even when you know the gun is unloaded, you know it can't fire, you're tired, you're distracted, etc. you STILL control the muzzle automatically as the result of a lifetime of doing it right. Same thing with trigger finger discipline.
Exactly. The rules are there to be followed when we feel like it. They are there to prevent incidents just such as this one.
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Old December 9, 2012, 05:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
So don't fall into the trap of telling yourself (or letting someone else tell you) that the gun isn't loaded and so the safety rules don't apply right now. Otherwise, we will probably be reading about you one day...
Which is also why Rule #1 is properly stated "All guns are always loaded." rather than the oft used "Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.

"Treating it as if..." it's loaded implies that it is not really loaded so it's just a "game" or "exercise" to play and we don't really have to be careful.
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Old December 9, 2012, 06:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
Which is also why Rule #1 is properly stated "All guns are always loaded." rather than the oft used "Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.

"Treating it as if..." it's loaded implies that it is not really loaded so it's just a "game" or "exercise" to play and we don't really have to be careful.
Agreed. That was Cooper's objection to the "Treat as if ..." way of stating the rule, and he's right. The best way to ensure maximum (not absolute, as it can never be absolute as long as we are human and fallible) is to keep it simple, and program our dinosaur brain to be safe automatically.

And the NRA doesn't even get as emphatic as "Treat all guns as if they are loaded." The NRA only has three "fundamental" rules, as compared to Cooper's four. NRA Rule #3 says:

Quote:
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
That's the rule part, then there's a verbose paragraph under that covering what to do when picking up a gun if you don't know it's empty. The rule itself is incomplete, because the rule doesn't address any gun that I am not storing. And it also doesn't address a self defense/home defense firearm, which by definition IS kept loaded until ready for use. (Even in Washington, DC, now.)

Heck, for the NRA "Always be sure of your target and what lies beyond it" isn't even a fundamental rule ... that's just one of the "second tier," after-thought rules. When you think about it, what's the logic behind having a set of rules, and then following that set of rules giving a statement saying "When using or storing a gun, always follow these NRA rules:" -- which aren't the same rules.

As an NRA instructor I am required to teach it their way, but I don't like it.
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Old December 9, 2012, 08:08 PM   #34
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The Dad screwed up and has paid a tremendous price for his mistake. My prayers go out to him and his family.
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Old December 17, 2012, 06:33 AM   #35
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/09...ntcmp=obinsite
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Old December 17, 2012, 12:42 PM   #36
Aguila Blanca
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Younggunz, that story is datelined December 9 and doesn't tell us anything that wasn't originally reported. Why post the link over a week later?
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Old December 20, 2012, 12:48 AM   #37
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I noticed that after, my bad. I figured midas well leave it since you can't deletea post completely anyways & it might start up the conversation again. I was surprised the date was old, so I must've done something wrong...
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