Redhawk .45C/.45ACP?

[Model12Win]

Guys I've had my eye squarely on the Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP since the day it was announced last year:



Today I was at the gun show in Topeka, Kansas and low and behold one of the dealers had one of these revolvers. I picked it up in my hand and immediatly thought to myself the following:

Oh lawd... sweet cherry pie! This thing weighs a ton but these grips feel great! Talk about a beefy hog iron in God's favorite caliber, .45!

Really, that about did it guys. It pushed me over the edge. When that polished wood and stainless steel round butt grip touched my hand, I knew. I had to have one.

But I didn't buy it because I don't have the money right now! But, not only that, but I have read on a few places that these have had a couple problems with misfires. These take either .45 Colt or .45 ACP on moon clips, and apparently with at least some loads, I've read reports of failures to fire with this or that ammo etc.

So, for those of you in the know, how are these doing now? If you have one, is it reliable? I plan to use it as a primary bedside defense gun loaded with .45 ACP moon clips or .45 Colt defensive loads, and also as a backup pistol when in the woods hunting boar and for wilderness protection for predators. I need the gun to be reliable.

So what's the verdict on these Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP guns? I'm drawn to them like a gnat to a light bulb but I have to know whether or not these guns are finicky and potentially unreliable.

Thanks all!

[44 AMP]

While I don't know the Redhawk specifically, and haven't read the reports, I can, perhaps shed a little light on this...

but I have read on a few places that these have had a couple problems with misfires. These take either .45 Colt or .45 ACP on moon clips, and apparently with at least some loads, I've read reports of failures to fire with this or that ammo etc.

It might be the fault of the moon clips. Especially if they clips used are the plastic kind.

Simply put, the .45ACP case is UNDERSIZE for the .45 Colt chamber. The book drawing for the .45ACP show .473" at the case mouth, tapering it .476" at the head and .480" for the rim.

The .45 Colt case is straight, .480" at the case mouth, and case head. Rim is .512" but that doesn't matter in this discussion.

SO, you've got .45ACP, a few thousandths smaller than the chamber, and considerably shorter (no ledge in the .45Colt chamber for the ACP to headspace on), so the ONLY support is the moon clip. If the clip is a sloppy fit, or FLEXES when the firing pin hits, you could get erratic ignition (misfires).

For that reason ALONE, I would not use .45ACP in that gun for a dependable self defense load. A gun using moon clips made JUST for the .45ACP I would consider a different matter.

Also, there may be accuracy issues with the ACP due to long bullet jump in the Colt chamber, but each gun seems to be an individual about that. Some don't seem to care, others show a difference.

I have a Blackhawk convertible, but of course, it uses two different cylinders.

[Model12Win]

Thanks you, 44 AMP.

With this knowledge, it seems it would be best to use the .45 ACP for lower cost training and to save the .45 Colt loads for defensive use. This is no problem since there are so many excellent .45 Colt loads today for defense from man or beast. Yet, the ability to fire .45 ACP is still important to me as I do not reload at this time and the price is much less expensive over .45 Colt factory ammo.

[TruthTellers]

If you're worried about .45 ACP unreliability, I would attribute that to the moon clips being used. Moon clips are super finicky and if they have any sort of bend or warp in them, they will cause issues. People were probably using the factory clips sent with the gun and over time they caused issues. Also, there's the possibility others were using the cheapest .45 ACP available *cough*steel case *cough*

If you already reload for .45 Colt then you should mostly be shooting that anyway in a revolver chambered for .45 Colt, but I understand the draw to a revolver that can fire both .45 Colt and ACP... it's what made me buy one

[Model12Win]

If you already reload for .45 Colt then you should mostly be shooting that anyway in a revolver chambered for .45 Colt, but I understand the draw to a revolver that can fire both .45 Colt and ACP... it's what made me buy one

Truth, I would love to hear about your personal thoughts on this revolver. Have you experienced any problems or quirks personally? Would you have any tips to pass on to someone looking to buy one of these? Are they worth it?

[TruthTellers]

Truth, I would love to hear about your personal thoughts on this revolver. Have you experienced any problems or quirks personally? Would you have any tips to pass on to someone looking to buy one of these? Are they worth it?

First off, I've had mine for all of one week and haven't shot it yet.

My thoughts are in agreement with many others: this gun is heavy. The weight is worth it tho as I'm sure that it cuts the recoil of standard pressure .45 Colt and ACP down to more than manageable. Along with the size and weight, it needs to be overbuilt to handle the hot .45 Colt stuff. I can't say I'm going to be shooting a lot of that, but I like the option as I find hot .45 Colt to be the most anyone would need to shoot a large, dangerous animal in defense. The .454 Casull, .460 S&W, or even .500 Magnum is too much for most to handle and honestly, too expensive that very few would ever practice with.

One tip I'll pass along is a tip that everyone should already know about revolvers and that's to dry fire (WITH SNAP CAPS!!!) them a few hundred times before making any sort of judgement on the trigger pull. Out of box it's gritty, but it will lighten up.

Worth is a difficult question to answer. For me, it is by far the most expensive gun I've ever bought and likely will be the most expensive gun I'll ever buy for a long time. What brought me to buying this was a concept I had years ago of a pocket shotgun. Yeah, the Judge and Governor's are also out there, but have questionable accuracy with .45 Colt/ACP. I figure I could make my own little buckshot by loading two .45 round balls in the Colt case and make some different loads to either increase spread of those two balls or minimize it for a variety of distances whilst also having a accurate gun with real rifling in the bore. Also, I can put enough birdshot into a .45 Colt shot capsule and probably get the same spread of shot for dispatching something up close, like a snake or a nasty rat, as I could in .410.

On top of that, being able to shoot .45 ACP or even .45 Super put the Redhawk over for me, along with the hot .45 Colt loads.

So, if fit my philosophy perfect and made it "worth it", but I'm always going to question myself about whether the Governor would have been better. For others such as yourself, if you just want a .45 Revolver, you'll have to question what you want it to do. I wanted a double action as I have enough SAO revolvers around. If you want a combo .45 revolver that will be as accurate as possible, then get the Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinder as the .45 ACP cylinder is specifically made to shoot .45 ACP; the throats, the chamber, etc. will be better than shooting it out of a .45 Colt cylinder that has some metal milled out to fit a moon clip.

If you don't give a hoot about .45 Colt, then maybe look at the S&W 625. If you want a carry revolver in .45 ACP, maybe take a look at Charter Arms Pitbull.

PS. Another thing I'll mention is the grips. I don't like that Ruger made the frame a round butt design because now I can't get a Hogue grip to make it more comfortable. Ruger made the .45 Colt only Redhawk with a standard Redhawk grip, but they had to do the .45 Colt/ACP model different for reasons only know to Sturm and Ruger. I don't see Ruger doing the grips different and I don't feel like waiting 5 years for them to get around to working on it, just like I didn't feel like waiting on Ruger to come out with a .410/.45 Colt revolver.

[Model12Win]

Thanks, Truth!

It would be nice to have moon clips for home defense, stoked with Federal HST 230 grain +P loads. The rapid reload and sure ejection would be nice. I prefer speedloaders for "out and about" field and carry use as they are more durable, but for home defense work I think moon clips would be nice.

I wonder, does this Redhawk accept S&W moon clips?

[Hunter Customs]

Beautiful gun, excellent choice in calibers!

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[DPris]

There have been multiple discussions of this model here.

I tested two with nearly 20 different loads between Colt & ACP.
The ACP ran from passable (2-3 inches) to horrendous (13 inches) at 25 yards, and that was with a mix of GOOD loads, including Buffalo Bore.
Ignition failures were not a problem in either gun, there have been many reports across a number of forums from people who did get ACP misfires.

Colt accuracy was generally good.

The gun does NOT accept moon clips for ANY OTHER MAKE OR MODEL GUN.
The Red's cylinder rear is machined entirely different from a Smith or Colt.

Installing Bowen's new extended firing pin for Reds should help with ACP ignition.
Gunsmith operation.
Denis

[Model12Win]

Thanks Denis! Hmm... it is a shame that is the best the .45 ACP did in the gun. I was hoping for better than that.

[smee78]

That's funny/sad that's the best the 45acp can do out of that gun. I have a S&W Mountain gun in 45Colt that I had cut for moon clips and it will shoot both 45ACP and 45C well. It is nice being able to shoot 45acp out of moon clips but 45C is my favorite to shoot.

[TruthTellers]

Thanks Denis! Hmm... it is a shame that is the best the .45 ACP did in the gun. I was hoping for better than that.

Not trying to disagree with Denis, but you may find through personal experience that you'll probably have most groups be much better than 13 inches at 25 yards. Personally, I have no plan to shoot .45 ACP from this gun at 25 yards unless I'm testing a proven handload.

IMO, I think if you REALLY want to shoot .45 ACP from the Redhawk, load your own and find what works best. But again, if you're already handloading, it might as well be for .45 Colt.

I figure at 12 yards of less, with .45 ACP, I'm going to hit what I'm aiming at enough to make it stop what it was doing that was threatening me.

[DPris]

As I said, two guns, multiple loads in both.
The ACP ran from 2-3 inches as best groups on up to 13 at worst.
The rest were in the neighborhood of 5, 7, 9 inches for 5 shot strings off a rest at 25 yards.

Most ACP groups, of course, were better than 13 inches, but most were not as good as 3 inches.

The Colt loads were much more consistent & got nowhere near 6-13 inches at 25 yards.

The point being that ACP accuracy in both guns was highly variable & poor with most loads tested, while the Colt loads shot much better overall.
Denis

[TruthTellers]

And that backs up what I'm saying that at 12-15 yards, the groups will be half that and will hit a man size target.

I think we all can agree though that .45 ACP at longer handgun range in a .45 Redhawk is best not bothered with.

[Hunter Customs]

If one wants to use the moon clips for the ease of speed loading maybe some 460 Rowland brass stoked with good cast bullets?

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[drobs]

Originally Posted by DPris

As I said, two guns, multiple loads in both.
The ACP ran from 2-3 inches as best groups on up to 13 at worst.
The rest were in the neighborhood of 5, 7, 9 inches for 5 shot strings off a rest at 25 yards.

Most ACP groups, of course, were better than 13 inches, but most were not as good as 3 inches.

The Colt loads were much more consistent & got nowhere near 6-13 inches at 25 yards.

The point being that ACP accuracy in both guns was highly variable & poor with most loads tested, while the Colt loads shot much better overall.
Denis

So what are the details of the load that shot 2 to 3 inches?

[Model12Win]

Guys, I've decided to go "to the black side" as it were.

Turns out, a single-action revolver is just as good as a Redhawk IMHO.

[drobs]

That's fine Model12Win, but I still have the 45acp/45colt Redhawk on my want to buy list. Seems Dennis could save me and others time and money letting me know what 45acp works best /is the most accurate in the gun.

[Model12Win]

That's fine Model12Win, but I still have the 45acp/45colt Redhawk on my want to buy list. Seems Dennis could save me and others time and money letting me know what 45acp works best /is the most accurate in the gun.
__________________

Ah... I see, Drobs, but it is without doubt that my research shows the Ruger Blackhawk with .45 ACP conversion cylinder does in fact group better with .45 ACP loads than one's average Redhawk... just saying!

[drobs]

I'd probably shoot more 45 colt in the gun if I bought it but the ability to use moon clips for a lightning fast reload of 45acp is attractive.

[DPris]

Drobs,
There was no "One Best ACP Load" in both guns.
One gun preferred one ACP load, the other preferred another.

If you want the whole story, spend $4 & buy the Kindle write-up available through Amazon.

You'd need to experiment with your own sample to see what works best in it.
Denis

[vba]

I was going to get the .45 ACP/.45 Colt combo of this gun and decided not to and just stick with the .45 Colt version with the Hogue Grips.

I reload for both .45 ACP and .45 Colt but it just didn't make since to with the combo gun knowing that .45 ACP is a much different cartridge than .45 Colt.

If it was somehow a different .45 ACP cylinder, that could easily be swapped out, it would be a different matter.

[DPris]

Two different cylinders would have been the best way to bring about comparable accuracy between the two calibers, as in the Blackhawk, but swapping cylinders would not be quick, and two sets of fitted cylinder/crane assemblies would raise the price of the gun beyond what most of its potential market would be willing to pay.

Ruger did an interesting job in how they approached the dual-caliber engineering, but there are just certain physical aspects of shooting those two calibers through one cylinder that leave the gun with less successful results than the Blackhawk's two-cylinder set-up.
Denis

[czf]

A modern day Webley.

I was set to trade for a new one, up until I tried to pull the trigger.

With amy aging hands, I'm lucky enough to operate a SP-101 or LCR..so the
gorgeous .45/45 Redhawk had to stay in on the shelf.

Too bad, as I could see myself loading it with .45 GAP for home defense
and .45 ACP for the range..and .45 Colt for the woods.

My Ruger caps;; off to those of you guy who own or want one.


However, a Blackhawk or Bisley in .45/45 might come home with
me in '17.

[Model12Win]

Yes, this reminds me greatly of a Webley. I see what you mean, it takes moon clips just like a Webley.