Burma Govt 1911

[ottis]

My dads 1st cousin was a pilot in the China Burma theater, he gave dad 2 guns. One is a Jap rifle with flower still present, the other is a 1911 never touched by a smith, it is parkerized, whats interesting are the grips, they are carved ivory , not real fancy, but i think its a elephant over a globe type scene. Posted just to share.

[jonnyc]

Pics?

[SEKLEM]

I agree, without pictures I'm not sure we can appreciate it.

[ottis]

Ill get some probably be tomorrow, I've not perfected the art of pictures to computer.

[Kosh75287]

Y'might not wanna go around advertising that the original stocks (grips) are ivory. We live in a world where ivory nazis are not above denouncing people for the mere possession of items carved from it.

[Doc Hoy]

It is not permissible to import or export ivory and it is not permissible to sell something of ivory unless you can document that it is old. You can own it, leave it to your heirs, give it to a friend, you just can't sell it unless you go through the right process.

But it is illegal in many states for someone to say something about someone else when the speaker knows or should know that what they are saying is false and says it anyway with the intention of harming the victim. If someone gives you a hard time about the pistol and it damages you, swear out a warrant for their arrest. In VA and in FL it is a rather high level misdemeanor. One year in jail and 1,000.00 fine.

[2ndsojourn]

^^^^
"One year in jail...."

And loss of gun rights.

[Doyle]

It is not illegal to own something made of ivory....

Not yet. Washington state is coming pretty close with their latest vote. You can own it there but trying to sell it would be difficult.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by ottis

My dads 1st cousin was a pilot in the China Burma theater...

Just out of sheer curiousity—no gun-related reason—was he a military pilot, or a civil airline pilot flying with the USAAF Air Transport Command (ATC)? Most U.S. air missions in the CBI Theater were conducted to resupply isolated pockets of British ground forces that could not be resupplied by sea due to Japanese naval control of the eastern Indian Ocean, and could not be feasibly resupplied by land due to the inhospitable jungle terrain which turned into a quagmire in the rainy season. [EDIT: Other missions were conducted to supply friendly forces in China.]

Many of the resupply missions [EDIT: to China] were flown across the Himalayas by American civil airline pilots under the auspices of the ATC, and the early-war lack of suitable high-altitude-capable transport aircraft forced many of the missions to be flown by delicately threading C-47s (DC-3s) through mountain valleys, with minimal instrumentation, no accurate weather forecasts, and no electronic navigation aids – real hero stuff. There are stories of crashed air crews literally taking WEEKS to walk out, often after being given up for dead. As with some other wartime pilots (combat glider crews being another good example), IMHO these guys don't get nearly the credit they deserve for the dangerous missions they flew, simply because their missions weren't very glamorous.

Historical diversion aside...

Originally Posted by Kosh75287

Y'might not wanna go around advertising that the original stocks (grips) are ivory.

There is, however, a very real possibility that they are fake. Phony ivory items are VERY common, and folks often discount this possibility with sentimental items – "Grandma would have known" is not necessarily true, as she could have been hoodwinked in 1947.

Suggest performing the "pin test" if any doubt exists. Remove the grip panels to expose the back sides. Using needlenose pliers and a torch, heat a pin until red hot, and delicately touch each panel with it. Real ivory is basically impervious to heat, and the pin will not penetrate. OTOH if the pin goes in like a hot knife through butter, the grips are plastic.

[Kosh75287]

DOC HOY, I think I like that law!

I wonder how high a hurdle it is to prove:
1.) that the party "knows or should know" what they are saying is false, and 2.) that it was said "with the intention of harming the victim".

FRANKLY, I think the ivory-poaching thing's handled all wrong, but nobody's asked my opinion about it, anyway. I just notice that, since that lion got shot because a dentist was lead into a non-hunting area and told it was okay to shoot, the anti-hunting, anti-ivory, anti-firearms fervor has elevated considerably. I don't want ANYONE who innocently came by ivory ANYTHING to be given a bad time, by these socio-Nazis.

[RickB]

Not yet. Washington state is coming pretty close with their latest vote. You can own it there but trying to sell it would be difficult.

We managed to avoid a ban on lead projectiles in the name of protecting the California Condor . . .

[ottis]

What I know is what dad said, that he flew the hump. My dad was AAC 317th fighter squadron N Africa through Italy he was crew chief.

[Bill DeShivs]

There is no need to damage your grips with a hot pin!
just post clear pictures and I can tell you if they are ivory!

[gyvel]

I think laws pertaining to ivory depend on what kind of ivory it is.

[Scorch]

Since the firearm in question spent time in SE Asia, there is the very real possibility that the grips are real ivory. There is also the very real possibility that they are fake ivory (not plastic, fake ivory is made using fish bones IIRC).

A statement does not have to be false for it to be a civil tort, it just has to be defamatory and cause economic, social, or emotional harm. Slander is not always false.

[gyvel]

Did he fly in C-47s or C-46s? My old lead man at the airline I worked for was a mechanic on the C 46s that flew in Burma.

He once told me that they had orders to shoot any Chinese that tried to walk through a prop on a running engine. All personnel were issued .45s. Superstition had it that it was a "magic circle" and, if you walked through it in one piece, you would live forever. (Of course, walking through a prop could cause lots of engine damage.)

[Mike Irwin]

" We live in a world where ivory nazis..."

How about we try living in a world where we don't knee jerkingly refer to anything we don't like as nazi this or nazi that?

It shows a profound lack of understanding for who and what the Nazis were.

[Doc Hoy]

The problem is not getting a conviction.

The problem is convincing a States Attorney that it is worth his while to pursue the issue.

I have been quasi involved in such an issue. The victim in the instance is not in a good position to apply much force when compared with the other crimes the attorney has on his plate.

If the victim can get a conviction or at least a statement from the DA that a criminal complaint is valid (much lower bar but also not very likely), the victim's civil case is strengthened.

[kraigwy]

To the OP, congrats on your pistol. My father also served in Burma, only with the 41th IN Div.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Now for my rant: The Ivory Ban is BS.

All ivory does not come from poached elephants.

The Alaska Natives on the Bering Sea live on walrus (among other marine animals). The Tusk of Walrus is ivory.

Many of these natives carve and sell the ivory, its all the cash money these people get.

I was a company commander of a NG unit consisting of these people, When I left the unit they presented me with a carved ivory hunting village. This ivory didn't come from poached elephants or poached anything else. They are allowed to hunt marine animals. It should be illegal for them to try to make a few bucks off the ivory which would otherwise be tossed.

Ivory Village:

[gyvel]

Considering this gun was allegedly obtained in Burma, and considering that part of Asia is full of elephants, the ivory was probably tusk ivory. The difference is that elephants there are highly prized as work animals, and are not hunted for their ivory. If it is Burmese ivory, it probably came from an animal that had passed on.

In fact, some of the work animals had their tusks sawn off, probably to either avoid injuring themselves in the jungles, or to keep them from injuring others.

[ottis]

It takes act of congress to get in lock boxes, which is good, anyway have pictures of 1911, managed to download to computer, when son gets home well get them up. The scenes are of 2 elephants on one grip the other looks like the hound of the Baskerville, running hunting dog. As far as if he flew for US or civilian I don't know, ill have to do some research.