Did you survive the 21 ft test? - Page 3

Samurai · July 2, 2006, 01:11 PM

M14fan, great suggestion on the walking stick! They really are versitile and formidable weapons. One of my black-belt styles is Muso-Shindo Jodo, which is use of the japanese "jo," or short staff (around 48".) Having studied about these "walking sticks," believe me, they are great weapons.

Two points about carrying a "walking" stick...

First, legality... It's really ironic that most states that authorize licensure to carry concealed firearms also flat-out prohibit the carrying of a "club." Moreover, the legal definition of a "club," centers on the "intent to go armed." In other words, it's generally ok to carry a random stick down the street (which is good, because there are thousands of different kinds of sticks used in the world). And, if you think it's a garden stake, then it's a garden stake. If you think it's a cane, then it's a cane. If you think it's a circus tent pole, then it's a circus tent pole. BUT, if you think it's a weapon, then it's illegal to carry. So, when carrying a stick, we're stuck in this weird paradox, whereby we must play a charade with our "apparent intent" in carrying it.

What I usually do is take a standard jo, purchased at a martial arts supply store, and I slap a 3/4" furniture stopper on the bottom of it. Voualla! Instant "walking" stick! But, you still have to be careful... Alot of states (including TN, if I'm not mistaken) also have a length limit on walking sticks, whereby it's presumed to be carried "with intent to go armed" if it's beyond a certain length. Always check your jurisdictional laws!!! And, when in doubt, ask a real lawyer.

(Side note: I think Tennessee is about to pass a new licensure to carry clubs, which will allow for things like collapsable batons, but I haven't heard anything definite about it yet...)

OK. Thing two: Train, train, train! Walking sticks, like all weapons, are deadly in the hands of a trained fighter, and are slow and ineffective in the hands of a novice. Don't believe me? Watch a novice kid chop firewood sometime. It's like watching a garden hose spray against a concrete wall: Lots of movement, but nothing accomplished!

Yes, friends. There is a right and a wrong way to swing a stick. If you're going to carry one, train with it. Find a pro, and get some lessons. Otherwise, when you do swing that stick at the mugger on the street, you're just asking for him to take your stick away and beat you with it!

Incidentally, M14fan, you say you have "scars." What happened?

M14fan · July 2, 2006, 03:14 PM

Crushed a leg. Got to keep it with lots of metal but it is a literal pain most of the time. I can and have run on it a couple of times. I cannot run quickly and I always pay for it for several days. My weight does not help either. The ONLY time I run is if someone is dying. I have a significant MA background and am very comfortable using my cane as well as my sidearm. The surgical scars on both sides of my leg are my ticket to carrying my cane anywhere though I rarely actually need it.

Used to live near Knoxville. Went to HS in the mighty micropolis of Coalfield.

Samurai · July 2, 2006, 03:31 PM

Ah, Coalfield! Booming metropolis to the nature lover!

Great deer hunting up there, or so I hear.

Well, I'm sorry to hear about your leg. But, it sounds like you're adapting nicely.

M14fan · July 2, 2006, 08:43 PM

Happened in 01. Watched the world trade center bombing with external fixators. Told me I would not walk for a year. I was wearing lead and doing cases in 6 months. I guess I am hard headed. Most of the time my gait is normal unless the day stretches to 10 or 12 hours.

Mostly a good excuse to carry a stick.

Really cannot run well though.

As for the deer hunting in and around Coalfield, I hear the same thing. Never had the time when I lived there and havent been there in 20+ years. Pretty country though.

HiPowering Along · July 2, 2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

The idea of drawing and dry-firing at my friend...even after clearing and checking and reclearing and rechecking and triple clearing and triple checking my weapon still sounds like a bad idea.

BAD, BAD IDEA. Who in their right mind would use a working firearm on a training/demonstration, firing at someone? Yee-gawds, man, are you nuts?

M14fan · July 2, 2006, 09:44 PM

I don't think the intent was for you to fire at your friend. That is why you are facing away from each other.

Samurai · July 3, 2006, 04:40 PM

Yeah... Rubber guns are good. Snap caps if you've got 'em, but I don't like to have snap caps out unless ALL live ammo is locked up (in a car, or otherwise...). Just a personal safety preference of mine... Being that my (Sensei's) dojo is actually on University property, we don't get to train with the live guns that often...

Rubber guns, pointed fingers, sticks, ...whatever it takes to be safe. And, just because you're training, doesn't give you the right to be a safety-moron.

and train, don't forget to train!

MidnightRambler · July 3, 2006, 07:22 PM

Never did that, but I did have an NRA instructor demonstrate with snap caps that I could not draw, rack a round into the chamber, and bring up the weapon before he was on me from 25 feet away. That was a lesson that one always carries with one in the chamber.

Kermit · July 3, 2006, 07:31 PM

I use to practice something similar back when I was still actively taking martial arts classes. Instructors would take turns charging or being charged. We even used water guns held at the ready and it was still tough. The first few times were tough & we knew what was going on...couldn't help but wonder how much worse it would be as a surprise attack.

View Poll Results: DID YOU SURVIVE THE 21 FT TEST?
YES	19	50.00%
NO	19	50.00%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

July 2, 2006, 01:11 PM	#51
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	"Walking" stick... M14fan, great suggestion on the walking stick! They really are versitile and formidable weapons. One of my black-belt styles is Muso-Shindo Jodo, which is use of the japanese "jo," or short staff (around 48".) Having studied about these "walking sticks," believe me, they are great weapons. Two points about carrying a "walking" stick... First, legality... It's really ironic that most states that authorize licensure to carry concealed firearms also flat-out prohibit the carrying of a "club." Moreover, the legal definition of a "club," centers on the "intent to go armed." In other words, it's generally ok to carry a random stick down the street (which is good, because there are thousands of different kinds of sticks used in the world). And, if you think it's a garden stake, then it's a garden stake. If you think it's a cane, then it's a cane. If you think it's a circus tent pole, then it's a circus tent pole. BUT, if you think it's a weapon, then it's illegal to carry. So, when carrying a stick, we're stuck in this weird paradox, whereby we must play a charade with our "apparent intent" in carrying it. What I usually do is take a standard jo, purchased at a martial arts supply store, and I slap a 3/4" furniture stopper on the bottom of it. Voualla! Instant "walking" stick! But, you still have to be careful... Alot of states (including TN, if I'm not mistaken) also have a length limit on walking sticks, whereby it's presumed to be carried "with intent to go armed" if it's beyond a certain length. Always check your jurisdictional laws!!! And, when in doubt, ask a real lawyer. (Side note: I think Tennessee is about to pass a new licensure to carry clubs, which will allow for things like collapsable batons, but I haven't heard anything definite about it yet...) OK. Thing two: Train, train, train! Walking sticks, like all weapons, are deadly in the hands of a trained fighter, and are slow and ineffective in the hands of a novice. Don't believe me? Watch a novice kid chop firewood sometime. It's like watching a garden hose spray against a concrete wall: Lots of movement, but nothing accomplished! Yes, friends. There is a right and a wrong way to swing a stick. If you're going to carry one, train with it. Find a pro, and get some lessons. Otherwise, when you do swing that stick at the mugger on the street, you're just asking for him to take your stick away and beat you with it! Incidentally, M14fan, you say you have "scars." What happened? __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

July 2, 2006, 03:14 PM	#52
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Mva Crushed a leg. Got to keep it with lots of metal but it is a literal pain most of the time. I can and have run on it a couple of times. I cannot run quickly and I always pay for it for several days. My weight does not help either. The ONLY time I run is if someone is dying. I have a significant MA background and am very comfortable using my cane as well as my sidearm. The surgical scars on both sides of my leg are my ticket to carrying my cane anywhere though I rarely actually need it. Used to live near Knoxville. Went to HS in the mighty micropolis of Coalfield. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

July 2, 2006, 03:31 PM	#53
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	Ah, Coalfield! Booming metropolis to the nature lover! Great deer hunting up there, or so I hear. Well, I'm sorry to hear about your leg. But, it sounds like you're adapting nicely. __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

July 2, 2006, 08:43 PM	#54
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Thanx Happened in 01. Watched the world trade center bombing with external fixators. Told me I would not walk for a year. I was wearing lead and doing cases in 6 months. I guess I am hard headed. Most of the time my gait is normal unless the day stretches to 10 or 12 hours. Mostly a good excuse to carry a stick. Really cannot run well though. As for the deer hunting in and around Coalfield, I hear the same thing. Never had the time when I lived there and havent been there in 20+ years. Pretty country though. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

July 2, 2006, 09:44 PM	#56
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	I don't think the intent was for you to fire at your friend. That is why you are facing away from each other. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

July 3, 2006, 04:40 PM	#57
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	Yeah... Rubber guns are good. Snap caps if you've got 'em, but I don't like to have snap caps out unless ALL live ammo is locked up (in a car, or otherwise...). Just a personal safety preference of mine... Being that my (Sensei's) dojo is actually on University property, we don't get to train with the live guns that often... Rubber guns, pointed fingers, sticks, ...whatever it takes to be safe. And, just because you're training, doesn't give you the right to be a safety-moron. and train, don't forget to train! __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

July 3, 2006, 07:22 PM	#58
MidnightRambler Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 146	Never did that, but I did have an NRA instructor demonstrate with snap caps that I could not draw, rack a round into the chamber, and bring up the weapon before he was on me from 25 feet away. That was a lesson that one always carries with one in the chamber.

July 3, 2006, 07:31 PM	#59
Kermit Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,020	I use to practice something similar back when I was still actively taking martial arts classes. Instructors would take turns charging or being charged. We even used water guns held at the ready and it was still tough. The first few times were tough & we knew what was going on...couldn't help but wonder how much worse it would be as a surprise attack.