Home Defense: Rifle vs Shotgun vs Handgun

[Spectre]

Considering​ some of the replies, it's clear that not everyone understands the limitations of each.

The modern carbine is the easiest of the three to train to an acceptable level of proficiency.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, known to some.

I've dragged my old body through handgun, shotgun and carbine classes. I've shot them in matches. So I've (I hope) a reasoned opinion on what is my go to.

That is my handgun. The long arms are for hunkering down in the safe room.

I've had friends tell me that they will use their handgun to fight to their shotgun. I said that this predisposes that they will miss their opponents as they spray and pray. Their opponents will miss them as they scuttle around the house (at a rather elderly speed).

Oh, well. BTW, I'm not looking for bad guys unless it is truly necessary to get to a family member. I recall in class where we were in a bed room and heard a break in. What to do? The preferred solution was to hunker down, warn the bad guys we were armed and call the law.

Now, some newbies said: This is my house, I'm not letting them steal my collection of Elvis Plates and Beanie Babies. Blah, Blah.

So they left the bedroom and all were killed or knocked on their rear ends. Oops. They were armed with a shotgun (not real ammo, obviously).

So, to the OP - how are you in dealing with malfunctions and reloads on all three platforms? Shotgun jams are fun under stress.

[Don Fischer]

+1.

From the sounds of it, some people have a huge amount of room in their house and for those long shot's maybe a 30-378 with a 6-24x Leupold? Carbines will not handle like a handgun! Shotguns and rifle's won't either. You do not need a gun that will put all it's shot's into a tiny group but rather if you can hit a watermelon at 7yds, your good to go. If I was to use a shotgun, I'd use a pump 20ga. I'd have the barrel cut to as short as I legally could and the stock cut off and the pistol grip. This like any gun you might use in your own home is point ad shoot. But even cut to small portion's, it's still not as handy as a handgun. But it is also faster than a reg shotgun or a rifle. And unless your living room is the size of a football field, super accutate ain't gonna cut it, point and shoot!

One last thing, if you do have a weapon around for defense in your home, learn to use it very well. And, don't make the mistake of feeling invinsible just because you have a guy, you are not.

[stephen426]

For what it is worth, I did not serve in the military or in law enforcement. I am not a competition shooter, but I practice fairly regularly. This is only what I would do due to my circumstances.

For practicality, it has to be the handgun first for me. I have a quick access safe next to the bed. I have 2 kids so I would have to get to them and a rifle or shotgun would be difficult to use one handed. Once I got them to the "safe room", I would lock the door and grab the shotgun. I would then cover the door with the shotgun. While I certainly won't argue the effectiveness of a shotgun or rifle compared to a handgun, I don't feel it is practical to try and secure my long guns where I have quick enough access to them and still keep them secured away from my kids.

[PatientWolf]

I can't help but think the people who recommend a rifle (.270?) have a bigger house than I have.

In a 12 x 14 room if I am standing 2 feet from a wall (minimum because nobody wants to be limited in movement) and have a 36" long gun, that means the intruder has 7' - 9' to be moving around in, 5'-7' if they are also off the wall. That would put the barrel of my gun closer to their ability to grab/deflect than I would like, especially if there is more than one to cover. I might consider a shorter, rifle such as a small lever, but really think a pistol would be a better option in my home.

Those discussing the benefits on a 25 - 50 yd distance must have Really big homes.

The militaries of those "other countries" are also not arming their troops to secure homes. They are armed to secure areas. When they do have to work in tight quarters they work in teams and cover each other based on training with the bet all-around weapons they have.

But that's my opinion.

[MarkCO]

This from an ex-mil SF guy that I know...

That wasn't always the case, and some agencies, departments, teams, units, whatever else run a better program than others, but it's 2017. We've been shooting bad dudes in their living rooms every day for 16 straight years. Somewhere along the line we polished what we knew and "it'll happen" is no longer an acceptable answer.

What is interesting to me, is that everyone of these types that I ask/discuss this topic with who have been in these CQB, house clearing operations want the Rifle/Carbine over the SG or pistol. The experience and lessons learned they have passed on to me has changed the way I do several things.

The average person can not have experienced everything so taking the relevant parts from those who have different experiences in order to construct a better overall picture is beneficial.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

That would put the barrel of my gun closer to their ability to grab/deflect than I would like, especially if there is more than one to cover. I might consider a shorter, rifle such as a small lever, but really think a pistol would be a better option in my home.

I think you might find that difference isn't as big as you think. This link shows Clint Smith comparing a 1911 to an 18" shotgun:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_APnhoIYeD0

Another good rifle vs. pistol comparison:
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/ri...pistol-faster/

Of course, the important part is training and familiarity with what you choose to use. I've watched a man with a break-action single shot Greener converted to 12ga clean a plate rack faster than guys with tricked-out 12ga semi-autos because he knew how to run his weapon (they started out unloaded )

[PatientWolf]

Thank you for the link Mr Roberts. I had not seen this type of comparison before and it does make some sense, although my only shotgun has a longer barrel. Maybe it would be worth me investigating a defense type shot gun or a shorter barrel for mine.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I see that the OP still hasn't come back to discuss the issue or discuss his experience with the guns in question and how that interacts with the posts in this thread.

Better do that OP, or this is shutting down.

[Nanuk]

I have nearly 40 years of military/LE experience and training, I also shoot competitively. I have been trained extensively to fight with AR's, shotguns and pistols.

I live in a rural area on a major highway and have horses. My bump in the night can be anything from a meth tweeker pulling off the highway to a wolf after the horses.

My primary HD guns are my EDC Glock 31C and an AR pistol in 300 BLK loaded with 110 grn V max's. I run the AR pistol similar to a carbine using a cheek weld. Doing clearing drills I found I can navigate very well.

[JoeSixpack]

I think you might find that difference isn't as big as you think. This link shows Clint Smith comparing a 1911 to an 18" shotgun:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_APnhoIYeD0

If you extend your arms like you're at the range they are right.
However moving around you still have to deal with extra length of the shotgun.

Additionally How far back can they tuck that shotgun in for retention? Cause I can bring that handgun WAY the hell back.. I can fire it one handed into your gut at chest-2-chest range while fending you off with 1 hand if I need to.

I can easily fire it from the hip if I need to.. opening doors.. not a problem.
Flash light? hey guess what I can keep it separate and not have to muzzle sweep my brother who came in late and broke a dish in the kitchen.

I can easily operate a phone while holding a handgun.

I could probably go on and on but you get the point.. yes in a fully extended stance your arms make up a lot of the difference in length but I don't necessarily need to do that with a handgun, THATS where the flexibility and maneuverability comes from.



Now with all I just said if all you need to do is hold up in your bedroom and cover the door then their assessment is correct not a huge difference but movement thru the house.. ya I don't buy it.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Joe, most of what you mentioned are training issues. If you aren't trained how to retain your rifle and you are trained how to retain your handgun, a handgun is probably a better choice for most.

Having said that, it generally takes a really tight structure much smaller than a house before guys who are well trained in that go to pistols (if they have a long gun available).

[2damnold4this]

I see that the OP still hasn't come back to discuss the issue or discuss his experience with the guns in question and how that interacts with the posts in this thread.

Better do that OP, or this is shutting down.

I hope the OP answers. I'd hate to see the thread shut down as seems informative, at least to me.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Let's all be quiet then and see if he shows!

Otherwise ....

Shot an AR in a carbine match, yesterday - it is a blast to do. We had a few rifle/handgun transitions. To be repetitive, one should try maneuvering around walls and doors with a long arm to give it a try. Training with the gun is, of course, a good idea.

Oh - OP - where are you? We are interested in your thoughts after reading the discussion?

BTW, for the OP - one guy shot a Mosin-Nagant. With a bolt gun, you get only one shot on a target and have to make a head shot. That's compared to the semis, where you have the usual IDPA target rules. The guy hit almost all the head shots except one really close up one. That's always a kicker, you make the hard shots and screw up the easy one. Of course, the gun was slow to reload for multiple targets. He shot it for grins. He also did the match with a second semi rifle as a more realistic choice.

[MosinNOUGAT]

Thanks, guys.
I do think a carbine would be good. How do you think a Kriss Vector would do chambered in 9mm/45 ACP? I've been looking at these for a while:

https://kriss-usa.com/rifles/carbines/vector-crb-black

Also, another alternative:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

And sorry for not posting in a while, I was a bit busy but not anymore.

[MosinNOUGAT]

Let's all be quiet then and see if he shows!

A surprise party?

[MosinNOUGAT]

I'll ask the OP, what is your shooting experience with the three platforms and which do you think you handle the best

I do enjoy carbines in intermediate cartridges, but rifles are good too. Sorry for answering so late.

[Nanuk]

A surprise party?

The best kind.

[Longhorn1986]

Well, I keep an 870 under the bed with 00 & #4 alternating, a full sized 1911 in .45 ACP in my nightstand and a 4" Model 65 with .357 magnum downstairs by my chair in my living room. Don't really factor my AR & AK into home defense, though I may start using the AK as a truck gun. My neighbor, who is a Constable deputy keeps his AR handy for his home defense. I figure if you at least have something handy that goes "bang", you're off to a decent start over the guy who thinks no firearms and a cell phone to call 911 is the answer.


De gustibus non est disputandum

[adamBomb]

There are just too many variables. Each person, situation, house setup, etc will make a big difference.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Pistol caliber carbines are quite debatable as are the pistol variants of long guns. It is hard to see what they offer as compared to the 223 chambered regular configuration long arms.

Enjoying them is not the same as having experience with them in situations that simulate home defense.

I'm afraid we are stuck in a naive equipment based endless loop that really doesn't consider the actual application of various weapons in home defense.

Any of the three would work in a short, challenge the bad guy and hope he or she goes away scenario - or in a couple of shots fired and the bad guy goes away or gets put down scenario.

If we look at more prolonged or intensive situations with significant movement entailed, serious weapons manipulation, multiple opponents - then the discussion isn't really touching on them. OH, how about the Reminglock 339 Pistol blaster with underslung 4 gauge shotgun - that doesn't cut it.

You can adequately defend yourself with a good handgun, good pump or semi shotgun or carbine of standard type and with good SD ammo - if you have some idea of how to do it. The mind is more important than the hardware if you have a reasonable platform.

How about we lay out a plan to achieve some competence with a realistic firearm?

[PlatinumCore16]

I'll chime in: I have had a mosin since high school and a pistol since 21. When I moved I decided that I needed something better for the home because whilst handguns are easily maneuverable and I do practice a fair amount with mine, I have read that a long gun is better for home defense and after all the research, I agree. I haven't gotten to an HD course yet, but it is in the intermediate future for sure. So until then I have taken a new shotgun to the range and also practiced "situations" in my home with both weapons.

At the range I am much more consistent with the shotgun as the range gets longer. As far as situations at my house, we have a basement, but I wouldn't ever just go down there to "sweep" the house. The dogs (ferocious wieners) will and have woken us up in the middle of the night and depending on where I hear the sounds dictates the SOP: always call 911 first, second, if they broke through the glass door, just hunker in the room with the shotgun that's right there, if they broke through/picked the lock on the front door it's into the bathroom and cover the stairs(the bathroom door is always open and it's attached to the room, if they are in the basement, cover the stairs. All the scenarios give me the advantage over the intruder.

Anyone is welcome to chastise/criticize, but I think that works best for me/us.

Edit: was writing this whilst you posted Glenn, does this count as a "semi" realistic plan?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Sounds pretty decent. Not exploring and hunkering down with a long arm is quite reasonable, esp. if you do practice with it.

That plan works with a carbine, or shotgun. I have both. I prefer the carbine for ease of use and larger capacity. I've done some shotgun training and feel comfortable with it. So it's a matter of experential preference.

[PlatinumCore16]

Reloading is the sticky part. Which is why I may have only put some 100rds or more through the shotgun, I've loaded probably 3 times that much. Like I said, though, hopefully going to take a practical course soon and my hope is that they will have other guns to try than just the ones I bring.

Edit: had to think a little more, the round count is probably closer to 200 actually...

[CalmerThanYou]

When you watch footage of a SWAT type team entering a hostile situation it is common to see all three, handguns,tactical shotguns and high capacity SBR's employed. So I guess the correct answer is have al three available with the correct rounds for home defense loaded.