.22 forensics

Narcoleptic Warrior · December 9, 2007, 09:10 AM

In one of Tom Clancy's books, he writes about an ex-navy SEAL seeking revenge on some drug dealers who murdered his girl friend. In one particular chapter, it is mentioned how this seal kills two drug pushes in an alley with a M1911A1 modified to fire .22LR.

5) If only one round is fired from a handgun, what other sound would it resemble? Tire bursting? Fire cracker?
6) Is there any truth that a plastic bottle taped to the muzzle of a gun can act as a one-shot silencer? (this was featured on a CSI episode)

Thanks guys, I'll be sure to credit TFL if my book gets published.

Socrates · December 10, 2007, 12:56 AM

Yes, about a eon ago, you used to be able to buy for your Mac 10/11 a threaded extension that would fit a 2 liter coke bottle. It silenced up to a 9mm or 45, very effectively.

Also, a 22lr rifle, with exact shot placement, and, a silencer would be a VERY effective way of taking out gang members, without anyone knowing it.

OSUCowboy · December 10, 2007, 01:17 AM

Very interesting about the Coke bottle silencer...
As far as the sound of the gunshot, I have a Glock 30 (.45cal) with a .22LR conversion kit, and the .22's sound like a loud Blackcat firecracker. More of a "pop" than a gunshot, so I could see them easily being mistaken for a car backfire. They actually sound surprisingly like a large flat sheet of plywood falling against a concrete floor (I've worked construction), if that gives you a new direction to take your novel

.

jakeswensonmt · December 10, 2007, 01:52 AM

Re: the bottle silencer.
My wallet is out, but I'm not sure I'm buying it yet.

Even with a round as small as a .22, there is going to be a good amount of high pressure gas exiting the muzzle, and it's got to go somewhere. Seems to me that if the bottle is not vented, it's just going to burst or be blown forward off the barrel. Even if there is a .22 cal bullet hole at the base of the bottle, there will be pressure in this bottle. Maybe if a large number of small holes were bored in said bottle, and subsonic ammo were being used.

OP'd by Socrates.

Quote:

As for the silencer: Yes, about a eon ago, you used to be able to buy for your Mac 10/11 a threaded extension that would fit a 2 liter coke bottle. It silenced up to a 9mm or 45, very effectively.

With a 9mm or .45 there would be a lot more high pressure gas than with the .22, I can't see how an unvented bottle could withstand this for more than one shot.

teeroux · December 10, 2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

With a 9mm or .45 there would be a lot more high pressure gas than with the .22, I can't see how an unvented bottle could withstand this for more than one shot.

the first bullet makes the vent

ive seen a lot of coke bottle bombs youd be suprissed at how much pressure a coke bottle will hold

Socrates · December 10, 2007, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:
With a 9mm or .45 there would be a lot more high pressure gas than with the .22, I can't see how an unvented bottle could withstand this for more than one shot.
the first bullet makes the vent

+1

**JohnKSa** · December 10, 2007, 03:10 AM

I'm going to split this thread, leave the part about forensics here and put the silencer related part in the NFA subforum.

BTW, this thread won't last long if it turns into a primer on making illegal silencers.

VUPDblue · December 10, 2007, 06:18 AM

There is a guy on another forum who has, legally, made and registered an adaptor that fits a coke bottle addapter to muzzle threads. I have seen a video of it on his website. He used it on a Walther P22, first with just the empty bottle. There was virtually no suppressing of the report that way. Then he filled the bottle with shaving cream. The suppression of the report was almost equal to any modern silencer design. It worked well until the cream was mostly gone. The problem with the bottle alone is that it has TOO MUCH volume. The report still goes "boom" but mostly inside the bottle. Imagine standing inside a really big box and shooting. Sure the box captures all the gas, but people outside the box will still hear you.

Syntax360 · December 10, 2007, 11:59 AM

They used to sell coke bottle adapters for various firearms for something like $5... They now require a tax stamp, so it'll cost you over $200 to do it legally. I know it works (at least from reports - I prefer the real deal from AAC or others), but I'd still be terrified that the barrel would bulge or blow up or something - wouldn't the coke bottle cause a crazy pressure spike?

Hawg · December 10, 2007, 08:45 PM

I'm not going to go into details but you can make a silencer for a .22 out of a Coke bottle that is so effective all you can hear is the bolt working and it works for many, many shots. The sound of the bullet striking something is surprisingly loud tho, specially if it's something metal.

VUPDblue · December 10, 2007, 09:14 PM

Here's the video of the registered bottle silencer on a P22. Note that it is quite effective. The medium is shaving cream.

20nickels · December 10, 2007, 09:48 PM

I just finished this very chapter in this very book 2 nights ago. Weird.
The novel takes place in the 70's. When machining the silencer he mentions it is a basic conical baffle design, made of steel, and is large enough to completely block out his sights. My 1st thought was, noseheavy. He also draws a white line down the top center of the slide. I can't figure out if that is some kind of sight thing or what. Any ideas?

TNT · December 11, 2007, 01:16 AM

I heard stories like this like stuffing the coke bottle with steel wool never tried it so I can't tell you it it worked or not

PAR · December 11, 2007, 09:01 AM

Here's a photo of what the thread adapter looks like and as mentioned it requires a tax stamp.

http://www.silencertests.com/gallery...d/btpetadapter

VUPDblue · December 11, 2007, 09:40 AM

Thanks for that link, PAR. The fact that you can fill a bottle with a medium and suppress the report of a firearm is a great example of the suppression principal in action. Modern suppressors are shrunk-down and improved designs of the same principal. Modern suppressors expand and cool escaping gasses through a series of baffles instead of a dense medium such as steel wool or shaving cream. As such, they are very compact and lightweight as well as extremely efficient. I will concede that, in a pinch, you could utilize the bottle design if it was absolutely necessary, like the dreaded SHTF situation. That said, you could utilize a lot of less than legal operations in a similar situation. Not that these things would be wise in ordinary, every-day life

PAR · December 11, 2007, 09:58 AM

True they wouldn't be all that wise and in today's environment, I wouldn't want to get caught with a roll of duct tape and a case of soda bottles, that is why I went the tax stamp route for my toys.

As for the bottle adapter, if I received one on a form 5, I wouldn't refuse it but I think it's more of a novelty item than anything else because if you're going to shell out $200 for stamp, might as well be for a real can with real capabilities.

December 9, 2007, 09:10 AM	#1
Narcoleptic Warrior Member Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 79	.22 forensics In one of Tom Clancy's books, he writes about an ex-navy SEAL seeking revenge on some drug dealers who murdered his girl friend. In one particular chapter, it is mentioned how this seal kills two drug pushes in an alley with a M1911A1 modified to fire .22LR. 5) If only one round is fired from a handgun, what other sound would it resemble? Tire bursting? Fire cracker? 6) Is there any truth that a plastic bottle taped to the muzzle of a gun can act as a one-shot silencer? (this was featured on a CSI episode) Thanks guys, I'll be sure to credit TFL if my book gets published.

December 10, 2007, 03:10 AM	#7
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,989	I'm going to split this thread, leave the part about forensics here and put the silencer related part in the NFA subforum. BTW, this thread won't last long if it turns into a primer on making illegal silencers. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 10, 2007, 06:18 AM	#8
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	There is a guy on another forum who has, legally, made and registered an adaptor that fits a coke bottle addapter to muzzle threads. I have seen a video of it on his website. He used it on a Walther P22, first with just the empty bottle. There was virtually no suppressing of the report that way. Then he filled the bottle with shaving cream. The suppression of the report was almost equal to any modern silencer design. It worked well until the cream was mostly gone. The problem with the bottle alone is that it has TOO MUCH volume. The report still goes "boom" but mostly inside the bottle. Imagine standing inside a really big box and shooting. Sure the box captures all the gas, but people outside the box will still hear you. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 10, 2007, 09:14 PM	#11
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Here's the video of the registered bottle silencer on a P22. Note that it is quite effective. The medium is shaving cream. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 11, 2007, 01:16 AM	#13
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	I heard stories like this like stuffing the coke bottle with steel wool never tried it so I can't tell you it it worked or not __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

December 10, 2007, 12:56 AM	#2
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	Yes, about a eon ago, you used to be able to buy for your Mac 10/11 a threaded extension that would fit a 2 liter coke bottle. It silenced up to a 9mm or 45, very effectively. Also, a 22lr rifle, with exact shot placement, and, a silencer would be a VERY effective way of taking out gang members, without anyone knowing it.

December 10, 2007, 01:17 AM	#3
OSUCowboy Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: OKC Posts: 43	Very interesting about the Coke bottle silencer... As far as the sound of the gunshot, I have a Glock 30 (.45cal) with a .22LR conversion kit, and the .22's sound like a loud Blackcat firecracker. More of a "pop" than a gunshot, so I could see them easily being mistaken for a car backfire. They actually sound surprisingly like a large flat sheet of plywood falling against a concrete floor (I've worked construction), if that gives you a new direction to take your novel .

December 10, 2007, 11:59 AM	#9
Syntax360 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 694	They used to sell coke bottle adapters for various firearms for something like $5... They now require a tax stamp, so it'll cost you over $200 to do it legally. I know it works (at least from reports - I prefer the real deal from AAC or others), but I'd still be terrified that the barrel would bulge or blow up or something - wouldn't the coke bottle cause a crazy pressure spike?

December 10, 2007, 08:45 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I'm not going to go into details but you can make a silencer for a .22 out of a Coke bottle that is so effective all you can hear is the bolt working and it works for many, many shots. The sound of the bullet striking something is surprisingly loud tho, specially if it's something metal.

December 10, 2007, 09:48 PM	#12
20nickels Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 274	I just finished this very chapter in this very book 2 nights ago. Weird. The novel takes place in the 70's. When machining the silencer he mentions it is a basic conical baffle design, made of steel, and is large enough to completely block out his sights. My 1st thought was, noseheavy. He also draws a white line down the top center of the slide. I can't figure out if that is some kind of sight thing or what. Any ideas?

December 11, 2007, 09:01 AM	#14
PAR Member Join Date: June 1, 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 22	Here's a photo of what the thread adapter looks like and as mentioned it requires a tax stamp. http://www.silencertests.com/gallery...d/btpetadapter

December 11, 2007, 09:40 AM	#15
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Thanks for that link, PAR. The fact that you can fill a bottle with a medium and suppress the report of a firearm is a great example of the suppression principal in action. Modern suppressors are shrunk-down and improved designs of the same principal. Modern suppressors expand and cool escaping gasses through a series of baffles instead of a dense medium such as steel wool or shaving cream. As such, they are very compact and lightweight as well as extremely efficient. I will concede that, in a pinch, you could utilize the bottle design if it was absolutely necessary, like the dreaded SHTF situation. That said, you could utilize a lot of less than legal operations in a similar situation. Not that these things would be wise in ordinary, every-day life __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 11, 2007, 09:58 AM	#16
PAR Member Join Date: June 1, 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 22	True they wouldn't be all that wise and in today's environment, I wouldn't want to get caught with a roll of duct tape and a case of soda bottles, that is why I went the tax stamp route for my toys. As for the bottle adapter, if I received one on a form 5, I wouldn't refuse it but I think it's more of a novelty item than anything else because if you're going to shell out $200 for stamp, might as well be for a real can with real capabilities.