Questions for K31 owners

[Kimio]

With the panic buying of ammunition still going strong, and the more popular calibers being both pricey and hard to come by in any quantity I've begun looking at alternative rifles to add to my collection.

One in particular that has always intrigued me is the Swiss K31, they typically run for about 350-400 on gun broker, and I'm currently debating on if I want to pick one up or not. Aim surplus appears to still have a stock of 7.5x55mm swiss ammunition, so that should allow me to make it out to the range a bit more as of late. In regards to said ammunition, I was wondering what you would say is the average cost for ammunition these days and how hard would it be to reload for this rifle (I hope to get into reloading later on)

From what I've read here, the K31 is a pleasent gun to shoot, and most who own one are very pleased with them. However, compared to other Milsurp rifles, how does the K31 stack up in terms of accuracy to the more common bolt actions out there? I'm not expecting a tack driver out of these, seeing as they were designed for mass production first accuracy second.

Being a collector, I'm also curious as to how rare the "sniper" variant of this rifle is. From my understanding, they're not very common and usually fetch a premium price tag (provided they sport the original optics)

Is the recoil from these rifles as punishing as the M91/30 Mosin Nagant?

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[amd6547]

The K31 is considered one of the best made, and most consistently accurate general issue bolt guns ever.
Mine certainly is accurate. Part of the accuracy comes from the very high quality GP11 Swiss ammo.
The K31 really is in a class of its own.

[Slamfire]

Being a collector, I'm also curious as to how rare the "sniper" variant of this rifle is. From my understanding, they're not very common and usually fetch a premium price tag (provided they sport the original optics)

I have no idea how rare the sniper version, because I have never seen one.

From what I've read here, the K31 is a pleasent gun to shoot, and most who own one are very pleased with them. However, compared to other Milsurp rifles, how does the K31 stack up in terms of accuracy to the more common bolt actions out there? I'm not expecting a tack driver out of these, seeing as they were designed for mass production first accuracy second.

I have not scanned any of my K31 targets, but this rifle is exceptionally accurate for a service rifle. I have shot the things in local 100 yard walk up NM courses. It is very quick to cycle, just grab the bolt and pull. Even though I have Swiss slings, I shoot prone without any sling tension. The sling attachments are for side carry and are of little use in supporting the rifle in shooting positions. Also, I believe, pulling on the sling changes the point of impact. Still, going from standing, sitting, to prone, I can see the point of impact change, which is fairly typical of all service rifles.

I recently paid for an Furter adjustable rear sight, see image (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...p?f=37&t=87572) so maybe I will be able to make sight adjustments during the match. I sighted the rifle in last week with the new sight, and off the bench, with my 174 FMJBT reloads, I was able to shoot two five shot groups that stayed within the 2" 10 ring of the 100 yard small bore target. That was using a bench rest. That is exceptional accuracy for a service rifle. You will run into posters who claim consistent MOA or sub MOA from their rack grade Garand, and I don’t know what planet they got their rifle, but service rifles are not target rifles. Read what Hummer70 says about the accuracy requirements of M1903’s though the M16:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show....php?p=5424409

The M14 in issue condition is known as the worst performing rifle we ever fielded. I worked product engineering for the Army Small Cal Lab at Picatinny Arsenal and I had engineering responsibility for the M14 until the Chief transferred me to the Dover Devil MG project. While there my board was adjacent to Julio Savioli who was the draftsman for the M14 rifle and his name is on all the drawings for it. Al Cole was engineer in charge of the M14 and he was also a friend. Savy (as we called him) was a wealth of information on the M14 and had all kinds of stories about it as he not only did the drawings, he was in on the field testing.

First off consider the requirement facts from the engineering files from the government weapons production efforts.

1. acceptance accuracy for 1903 Springfield was 3" at 100 yards.
2. acceptance accuracy for M1 Garand was 5" at 100 yards.
3. acceptance accuracy for M14 was 5.5" at 100 yards and was waivered continually as it could not meet that.
4. acceptance accuracy for M16 series is 4.5" at 100 yards.

From SAAMI we have a recommendation of 3" at 100 yards and it is up to the vendor whether he wants to meet this or not.

I consider any military bolt rifle that shoots within 3” at 100 yards a very accurate service rifle. For those who claim sub MOA for their Lee Enfield, Mauser, etc, show me your 20 shot MR31 target. This is the 600 yard reduced target used in a NRA 100 yard walk up match. Last year, with my 2 MOA K31 rifle, I shot a 178-1X on the target, big points lost because I was having to use “Kentucky” windage to center the group, this year, I should be able to use a consistent aimpoint instead of aiming in the white. I have never shot higher than a 188 with a M1903A3 as the barrel is simply not accurate enough.

Even though this is just a 198, (I have shot 200's) I just love the looks of that big damn hole in the center of the target. And this is out of a match M98 Mauser. Don't expect a service rifle to shoot like this.



Is the recoil from these rifles as punishing as the M91/30 Mosin Nagant?

As for recoil , Newtonian physics has not changed, this rifle pushes a 174 grain bullet at 2550 fps, which is just a little less than a 308, and it kicks similar to a 308. The stock is somewhat better shaped than a Mosin. I really dislike the recoil from 200 grain bullets in 8 mm K98’s, this recoil is not so bad.

. In regards to said ammunition, I was wondering what you would say is the average cost for ammunition these days and how hard would it be to reload for this rifle (I hope to get into reloading later on)

The round is easy to reload. The case loves IMR 4350. The problem will be finding reloadable brass. I have no idea the current price, just check the spot market daily. Prices change radically every day. Lets just say, ammunition is not getting any cheaper.

 
							
168 gr Nosler Match  51.0 gr AA4350 INDEP brass and primer OAL 2.850	
							
	22 Dec 01 T = 58 ° F					
							
Ave Vel =	2536					 	
Std Dev =	17					 	
ES =	45					 	
Low =	2510					 	
High =	2555					 	
N=	9						
							
AP11 Swiss Ball headstamp DA 78					
							
	24 Mar 04 T = 70 ° F					
							
Ave Vel =	2565				 	 	
Std Dev =	11				 	 	
ES =	23				 	 	
Low =	2551				 	 	
High =	2574				 	 	
N =	4

Since the supply of K31's has dried up, prices will climb. I remember being happy to buy one for $350.00. Then you could buy one for $125.00, one with a cracked stock for $79.00. I was upset that I over paid, but now, I guess I did not do that badly because prices have gone back up. If you like precision machinery, you will like the K31. It is too expensive to build as no one but a Nation State could afford it.

[rdmallory]

I would not pay much if any for the "sniper model" I have been told there have been a lot more sold than ever made.

Doug

[amd6547]

I think I paid $139 for my K31 back in the day...at AIM surplus. Mine has the troop tag under the buttplate. I sent a letter to Switzerland, but never got a response.

[twins]

compared to other Milsurp rifles, how does the K31 stack up in terms of accuracy to the more common bolt actions out there?

You will find the K31 will outshoot in terms of accuracy to most Milsurp rifles out there. The Swedish M96 would be a comparable rifle to the K31. Since the K31 wasn't used in any wartime situations, most K31 on the market are still in decent shape (buttstock not withstanding).

the K31 is a pleasant gun to shoot

I don't think any gun with a metal buttplate can be categorized as a pleasant gun to shoot. It is a heavy rifle so the recoil is tame by the weight, but you will still feel the "pleasant" tap on the shoulder (as with any .30 cal rifle).

I agree with an earlier poster stating it is in a class of its own. Once you strip clean a K31, you'll see the outstanding Swiss worksmanship and quaility.

If you do buy one, you won't regret it.

[tangolima]

K31 is definitely a fine service rifle. I like mine a lot. It has a superb trigger.

Having said that, mine comes with a few issues, although they are minor and fixable.

1. The POI is way high with the original iron sight. Talking to a guy in Europe who sells front sight blades for the rifle, I understand why it is so. Something to do with the marksmanship training and qualification test in the Swiss militia.

2. The POI seems to walk when the barrel heats up with rapid firing. The barrel is fully embraced by the wooden stock near the muzzle. I would actually be surprised if it doesn't do that.

3. Headspace seems a bit more than usual bolt guns. Mine has up to 0.01" when using the GP11 surplug rounds. I think it is normal for straight pull guns because of their lack of leverage to deal with long rounds. I replaced the original bolt head with a longer one. Now it is down to 0.005". Actually it is a non-factor if you handload.

With all this "shortcomings", it still shoots around 2 MOA without much jiggling.

-TL

[kilimanjaro]

If you reload, just get brass and bullets, and you're good to go. Prvi Partisan makes 7.5 Swiss ammo in boxer-primed brass, it's about $0.90 a round. The Hornaday ammo is good, but $1.50 a round. The Swiss GP11 ammo is very good, but not reloadable. Still worth buying to have a decent stock to shoot up.

My K31 was recent pawnshop find, and it's the best milsurp rifle I have ever shot. Workmanship and finish are outstanding. Accuracy is quite good.

The sights are set up for a center of mass hit when you aim at 6 o'clock. It's a battle rifle, not a match rifle. Aim at the belt buckle, hit in the chest.

[Rattlehead]

Recoil is sharp - 7.5 isn't that far off from 7.62 (as reloaders of the round already know), and the case length is on par with the 51-63 length of 308 and 30-06. Expect that level of recoil through a steel buttplate. There's a reason I have a slip-on limbsaver on mine (and still feel a pretty solid kick).

As far as accuracy, the rifle shoots better than I can. It's a great rifle and if I can find a second one at a decent price I will buy it in a heartbeat.

[Huffmanite]

lol, only thing wrong with a K31 is possibility of ejecting the brass and it going down the back of your shirt. Its hot brass can smart. Trust me on that.

As already written, its an accurate rifle. Sold my K31 to a fellow range member who had fallen in love with surplus rifles. Made the mistake of letting him shoot my K31 one day with some of my GP11 ammo......his offer was too good to refuse. Gent will put a St. Marie scope mount on the rifle just to see how accurate the rifle was. He would discover the K31 could and did outshoot a lot of his rifles when it came to accuracy. Gent hunts in Africa and owns a large number of very nice rifles from benchrest target type to something to bring down an elephant.

[Unspoken]

Kimio,

I highly recommend you jump on the Swiss bandwagon.

Forget gunbroker. Simpson LTD has a better selection, and better price on k31s & k11s, especially with their current discount on Swiss rifles.

For ammo, Samco & sgammo has the best price that I can find on GP11, in the neighborhood of .50$/round.

The recoil can bite you if you don't have it shouldered properly. But once you get comfy running that silky, fast straight-pull action, you will be hooked for life. The two-stage triggers are smooth & pleasant, especially if you're used to long milsurp triggers like I am.

The rifles are hyped as being insanely accurate, and it's every bit a reality. Stacked up next to my K98, Arisaka, 03a3 & 1917, the K31 is in a league of its own in terms of accuracy. It makes me look like I know how to shoot.

[Kimio]

Thank you all for the replies, a special shout out to Slamfire with his outrageously informative post.

Also @Unspoken, thank you for the recommendation to Simpson Ltd. Their prices are much better than what I've been seeing these rifles going for on GB.

Whenever I decide to jump on one of these rifles, is there anything in particular I should watch out for? I'll likely order it from Simpson Ltd. whenever I pull the trigger and get one.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I bought a sporterized one just a few years ago for $100.00 at the end of the show, from a table near mine... it's drilled & tapped for a scope base ( which I wish wasn't done, but I can live with ) but it also had the stock cut back to the 1st barrel band...

I'd like to find a decent replacement stock, & the front barrel band... anyone have any idea where to get them ???

also, mine doesn't have the butt plate... why anyone would leave it off ??? but the original price was right... so if I could find an original, but I could also live with fitting a good rubber decelerator or similar on the stock

[Unspoken]

As I'm perusing Simpson I noticed their discount is only on K11s. Sorry about that.

I'm looking at their lower-priced 31s and I would be proud to own any of them. The metal on those will be a little bit worn or may have mismatched parts but who cares?

If I were buying one I would prefer matching mag & bolt, a troop tag, and the leather sling. But those aren't deal breakers if you find a rifle that speaks to you.

[AssaultTortoise]

I have 2 K31s and they are great guns. They have been very accurate with any ammo I have used. Both the Privi, Hornaday, and GP11 are reloadable but the GP11 is berdan primed so its more of a hassle. I paid $230 for my beech and $250 for my walnut stocked. If your looking for a range gun I honestly wouldn't pay more than $300 for one as your getting into what it would cost to buy a brand new rifle in a more common but still available caliber such as 22-250. If your dead set on shooting surplus ammo 7.62x54r will be the most widely available and cheapest surplus for the foreseeable future. Finnish reworked mosins are reasonably accurate in their own right and if you keep your eye out they can still be had for a decent price.

[g.willikers]

Everything you wanted to know and more:
http://swissrifles.com/