Hearing Protection

Bill Daniel · August 24, 2013, 10:03 PM

When you wear ear plugs NRR around 30 and an electronic hearing muff NRR about 22 will that yield a NRR of 52 or is it more complicated than that? My wife and I will be shooting pistols (380 & 45)at an indoor range and want to keep the hearing we have left.
What is the best for the money electronic hearing muff?
Thanks,
Bill

Dragline45 · August 24, 2013, 10:17 PM

I don't use them but in the meantime you could double up, meaning ear plugs with muff's over them. You could always check www.midwayusa.com or www.brownells.com and read up on the reviews people left for certain models. You two are smart for wanting to protect your hearing. Not only can you suffer hearing loss, but loud noise exposure can lead to tinnitus, or permanent ringing in the ears. I have it and it is no fun, and for some people it can seriously affect their quality of life. Getting to sleep without a fan on is hell for people suffering from tinnitus.

Chowder · August 25, 2013, 12:09 AM

When outdoors I usually just wear my standard Winchester Muffs that were about 40 dollars and they work well. Indoors I just add ear plugs as well and have never been bothered by the noise. I am also in the beginning stages of hearing loss so I have been considering upgrading, but so far non of the range noise even indoors has been uncomfortable.

dahermit · August 25, 2013, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Indoors I just add ear plugs as well and have never been bothered by the noise. I am also in the beginning stages of hearing loss so I have been considering upgrading, but so far non of the range noise even indoors has been uncomfortable.

"With the beginning stages of hearing loss" you should have concluded that the issue is not being "...bothered by the noise...", but by becoming hearing challenged. When I was young, there was no awareness of the correlation between noise (gun fire) and hearing loss...only handgun competitors (off-hand mostly) wore them to maintain concentration while other competitors shot next to them. To make a long story short, now 70, I have to turn on sub-titles when I watch a DVD inasmuch as highest volume and earphones do not give the acuity to catch all the words.
When shooting, ear muffs and plugs...else you will eventually understand what I am talking about.

giaquir · August 25, 2013, 07:25 AM

could you guys type louder?

giaquir · August 25, 2013, 07:32 AM

I just googles NRR and I was surprised about the addition of two
devices on each ear:

How does wearing dual hearing protectors change NRR?
When dual protectors are used, the combined NRR provides approximately 5 - 10 decibels more than the higher rated of the two devices. For example using disposable ear plugs (NRR 29dB) with ear muffs (NRR 27dB) would provide a Noise Reduction Rating of approximately 39 decibels

Ozzieman · August 25, 2013, 07:33 AM

Never tried the electronic but I don’t see the advantage of them. They allow you to carry on a normal conversation. Here is a description of an expensive set (170$)
Electronic shooting ear muffs provide the ability to hear sounds occurring around you better while wearing the ear muffs than you can without any protection. With the ear muffs in place, your hearing is enhanced through a built-in amplifier. When a loud noise such as a muzzle blast strikes the microphone in the ear cup, the internal amplifier shuts down to provide you with the full rated protection of the ear muffs.
Personally I would rather buy a good set of muffs which you can buy for under 60$ and use the rest for ammo. I don’t find conversation that difficult without some kind of amplification.
I have friends that use them religiously but when you ask them about when they are mowing the answer is the same “No, why”.
Being an older person with tinnitus (ringing in the ear) and 40% hearing loss in one ear from the military service, hearing loss is nothing to kid around about.
Imagine a 12 KHz constant ring in one ear. 24 hours a day.
Anyway, for hand guns and some rifles muffs are enough but when I am shooting my 6mm Rem or the 22-250 I wear both plugs and muffs.

Chuck Dye · August 25, 2013, 09:12 AM

The NRRs are additive in theory. In practice, not quite. Real world use brings in variables of fit. Foam plugs used according to directions aren't so bad, but earmuffs can vary greatly in effectiveness. One indication of this is the manufacturers' publication of two different NRRs for the same muff based on over-the-head vs. behind-the-head placement of the headband. Then there are differences in the seal due to hair, ear size, the curvature of your skull, and how much subcutaneous padding you have. Over time seal quality can diminish as the materials age and lose flexibility. For rifle and shotgun use there is the loss of effectiveness when a large muff is displaced by the stock. A well fitted muff with a lower NRR may well be more effective than an ill fitted muff with a higher NRR.

Don't forget that a 3db difference halves or doubles the energy of sound and keep in mind that those NRRs are almost always for continuous tones, not impulse sounds.

Chowder · August 25, 2013, 10:16 AM

Quote:

"With the beginning stages of hearing loss" you should have concluded that the issue is not being "...bothered by the noise..."

I was a bit tired when I wrote that so I didn't elaborate much lol. My hearing loss is not from noise exposure so I forgot to put in the part that I had a bit of a "duh" moment recently that I realized if my hearing is going bad already that damaging sound might not be bothering me. Which is why I am shopping around for nicer hearing protection. Of course I probably should have taken the advice or realized this years ago.

qwiksdraw · August 25, 2013, 11:01 AM

So I am talking to this guy and he starts telling me about this new kind of hearing protection. He tells me how this new kind really reduces decibel levels. This new kind of hearing protection is comfortable and form fitting. He starts telling me how this new kind of hearing protection is the best way to protect your your ears from long term hearing loss. He uses them all the time.

My curiosity is way up now so I ask him, "What kind is it?"

"3:45" he says as he looks at his wristwatch

Crossfire Arms, LLC · August 25, 2013, 08:41 PM

Based on my own personal experience, I like 3M Peltor Muffs. They won't break the bank and if you're coming from strictly earplugs the technology is quite a step up.

What's nice is they allow you to adjust the volume control so you can carry on a conversation while wearing them, but they automatically diminish sounds over a certain decibel level, e.g. gunfire. I wear them when I shoot, operate loud machinery etc..I noted another poster mentioned doubling up, wearing earplugs under the muffs. I have seen many people do this as the bones in the ear are very sensitive.....go for the best protection you can get, you only get one set of ears!

Regards,

Bobby

kln4 · August 26, 2013, 10:37 AM

I use Peltor tactical/sport earmuffs and hear shooters talking as well as firing. They're a little on the expensive side but, to me, worth it.

BigD_in_FL · August 26, 2013, 08:50 PM

They do not add up to get a new rating. The post mentioning a slight increase is correct.

The advantages of using plugs and muffs with high pressure rounds is to allow the muffs to protect the outer area surrounding your ear (mastoid) from having those violent sound/pressure waves from bring transmitted to your mastoid bone and then to your middle and inner ear where exposure over time can lead to hearing loss. Much of that hearing loss is permanent.

Psychedelic Bang · August 27, 2013, 03:32 AM

You will wind up with acoustic trauma....

As a musician, and somebody who's played in bands since my teens ( gosh, must near 20 years now ) I can tell you that all you need is 1 set of ear plugs.

You use 1 set of plugs, to take the db's down to a safe level. If you layer your plugs, you will create extra pressure in your tympanic membrane..

This will teach you all you need to know about ear plugs, custom plugs.. etc, etc.. Its for rock musicians...

meh, it also applies to gun ranges.

http://hearnet.com/

I can tell you that, "I know a lot of deaf musicians." But I was pretty bright, and had custom made plugs early on... When shooting, I just wear muffs, because of the gun powder in the air, etc, etc.. That would really screw up your custom plugs.

However, I wouldn't layer hearing protection. Its not going to help you. You will seriously damage yourself, thinking you are being, "extra safe."

FireForged · August 28, 2013, 09:02 PM

adding the two NRR together is not accurate... its not as simple as that.

August 24, 2013, 10:03 PM	#1
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	Hearing Protection When you wear ear plugs NRR around 30 and an electronic hearing muff NRR about 22 will that yield a NRR of 52 or is it more complicated than that? My wife and I will be shooting pistols (380 & 45)at an indoor range and want to keep the hearing we have left. What is the best for the money electronic hearing muff? Thanks, Bill __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

August 25, 2013, 07:33 AM	#7
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Never tried the electronic but I don’t see the advantage of them. They allow you to carry on a normal conversation. Here is a description of an expensive set (170$) Electronic shooting ear muffs provide the ability to hear sounds occurring around you better while wearing the ear muffs than you can without any protection. With the ear muffs in place, your hearing is enhanced through a built-in amplifier. When a loud noise such as a muzzle blast strikes the microphone in the ear cup, the internal amplifier shuts down to provide you with the full rated protection of the ear muffs. Personally I would rather buy a good set of muffs which you can buy for under 60$ and use the rest for ammo. I don’t find conversation that difficult without some kind of amplification. I have friends that use them religiously but when you ask them about when they are mowing the answer is the same “No, why”. Being an older person with tinnitus (ringing in the ear) and 40% hearing loss in one ear from the military service, hearing loss is nothing to kid around about. Imagine a 12 KHz constant ring in one ear. 24 hours a day. Anyway, for hand guns and some rifles muffs are enough but when I am shooting my 6mm Rem or the 22-250 I wear both plugs and muffs. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

August 25, 2013, 09:12 AM	#8
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	The NRRs are additive in theory. In practice, not quite. Real world use brings in variables of fit. Foam plugs used according to directions aren't so bad, but earmuffs can vary greatly in effectiveness. One indication of this is the manufacturers' publication of two different NRRs for the same muff based on over-the-head vs. behind-the-head placement of the headband. Then there are differences in the seal due to hair, ear size, the curvature of your skull, and how much subcutaneous padding you have. Over time seal quality can diminish as the materials age and lose flexibility. For rifle and shotgun use there is the loss of effectiveness when a large muff is displaced by the stock. A well fitted muff with a lower NRR may well be more effective than an ill fitted muff with a higher NRR. Don't forget that a 3db difference *halves or doubles* the energy of sound and keep in mind that those NRRs are almost always for continuous tones, not impulse sounds. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

August 27, 2013, 03:32 AM	#14
Psychedelic Bang Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2009 Location: FL USA Posts: 332	You will wind up with acoustic trauma.... As a musician, and somebody who's played in bands since my teens ( gosh, must near 20 years now ) I can tell you that all you need is 1 set of ear plugs. You use 1 set of plugs, to take the db's down to a safe level. If you layer your plugs, you will create extra pressure in your tympanic membrane.. This will teach you all you need to know about ear plugs, custom plugs.. etc, etc.. Its for rock musicians... meh, it also applies to gun ranges. http://hearnet.com/ I can tell you that, "I know a lot of deaf musicians." But I was pretty bright, and had custom made plugs early on... When shooting, I just wear muffs, because of the gun powder in the air, etc, etc.. That would really screw up your custom plugs. However, I wouldn't layer hearing protection. Its not going to help you. You will seriously damage yourself, thinking you are being, "extra safe." __________________ "Was always kinda partial to Roy Rogers actually. I really like those sequined shirts..."

August 28, 2013, 09:02 PM	#15
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	adding the two NRR together is not accurate... its not as simple as that. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

August 24, 2013, 10:17 PM	#2
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	I don't use them but in the meantime you could double up, meaning ear plugs with muff's over them. You could always check www.midwayusa.com or www.brownells.com and read up on the reviews people left for certain models. You two are smart for wanting to protect your hearing. Not only can you suffer hearing loss, but loud noise exposure can lead to tinnitus, or permanent ringing in the ears. I have it and it is no fun, and for some people it can seriously affect their quality of life. Getting to sleep without a fan on is hell for people suffering from tinnitus.

August 25, 2013, 12:09 AM	#3
Chowder Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2012 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 449	When outdoors I usually just wear my standard Winchester Muffs that were about 40 dollars and they work well. Indoors I just add ear plugs as well and have never been bothered by the noise. I am also in the beginning stages of hearing loss so I have been considering upgrading, but so far non of the range noise even indoors has been uncomfortable.

August 25, 2013, 07:25 AM	#5
giaquir Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Deerfield,New Hampshire Posts: 512	could you guys type louder?

August 25, 2013, 07:32 AM	#6
giaquir Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Deerfield,New Hampshire Posts: 512	I just googles NRR and I was surprised about the addition of two devices on each ear: How does wearing dual hearing protectors change NRR? When dual protectors are used, the combined NRR provides approximately 5 - 10 decibels more than the higher rated of the two devices. For example using disposable ear plugs (NRR 29dB) with ear muffs (NRR 27dB) would provide a Noise Reduction Rating of approximately 39 decibels

August 25, 2013, 11:01 AM	#10
qwiksdraw Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2012 Posts: 534	So I am talking to this guy and he starts telling me about this new kind of hearing protection. He tells me how this new kind really reduces decibel levels. This new kind of hearing protection is comfortable and form fitting. He starts telling me how this new kind of hearing protection is the best way to protect your your ears from long term hearing loss. He uses them all the time. My curiosity is way up now so I ask him, "What kind is it?" "3:45" he says as he looks at his wristwatch

August 25, 2013, 08:41 PM	#11
Crossfire Arms, LLC Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Posts: 40	Based on my own personal experience, I like 3M Peltor Muffs. They won't break the bank and if you're coming from strictly earplugs the technology is quite a step up. What's nice is they allow you to adjust the volume control so you can carry on a conversation while wearing them, but they automatically diminish sounds over a certain decibel level, e.g. gunfire. I wear them when I shoot, operate loud machinery etc..I noted another poster mentioned doubling up, wearing earplugs under the muffs. I have seen many people do this as the bones in the ear are very sensitive.....go for the best protection you can get, you only get one set of ears! Regards, Bobby

August 26, 2013, 10:37 AM	#12
kln4 Member Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 82	I use Peltor tactical/sport earmuffs and hear shooters talking as well as firing. They're a little on the expensive side but, to me, worth it.

August 26, 2013, 08:50 PM	#13
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	They do not add up to get a new rating. The post mentioning a slight increase is correct. The advantages of using plugs and muffs with high pressure rounds is to allow the muffs to protect the outer area surrounding your ear (mastoid) from having those violent sound/pressure waves from bring transmitted to your mastoid bone and then to your middle and inner ear where exposure over time can lead to hearing loss. Much of that hearing loss is permanent.