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Old September 14, 2017, 08:48 PM   #26
TXAZ
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Scorch noted:
Quote:
Rifles have no range, bullets have maximum ranges.
Actually rifles do have a maximum range. There's a maximum 'incipient explosion' pressure a rifle can handle. Take that pressure times the area of the projectile = the force applied to the projectile.... That and the barrel length determine the muzzle velocity, with a little physics, determines the max range of that rifle.
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Old September 14, 2017, 11:31 PM   #27
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The ability to hit a 22"wide target means nothing unless that shooter is capable of laser like accuracy. Kind of ridiculous even for procurement thinking.

Yes, that was the idea. With a rifle capable of 1 MOA, the right shooter can drop a 300 ultramag round into a goat's gizzards at 500 yards or farther, and imo, you've pushed that beyond the mechanical limits already. With a twelve X scope, even the best, visibility is limited.

So out at that range on a critter with a kill zone of eight to twelve inches, your one MOA rifle can only get you within five inches, and that leaves the shooter with the responsibility to calculate and fire that round to within maybe two inches either way. Who can fire a hunting round to a four inch tolerance at 500 yards? Anyone who makes a good eight inch kill zone shot like that under hunting conditions did it through luck.

The way I see it is that most modern rifles of good manufacturers are already mechanically ready to make 300-400 yard kill shots. It's unfortunate that any shot past 2-300 yards is pretty much a "hail Mary" and we are not all the equal of Bret Favre.
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Old September 15, 2017, 10:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Rifles have no range, bullets have maximum ranges.
Actually rifles do have a maximum range. There's a maximum 'incipient explosion' pressure a rifle can handle. Take that pressure times the area of the projectile = the force applied to the projectile.... That and the barrel length determine the muzzle velocity, with a little physics, determines the max range of that rifle.
No. As per your statement, the rifle does not have range, the projectile has range.
Quote:
That and the barrel length determine the muzzle velocity,
Yes! The muzzle velocity of the projectile! The rifle moves very little during this whole event.

Do not confuse what is moving downrange.
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Old September 15, 2017, 03:08 PM   #29
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Picky.
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Old October 10, 2017, 07:14 AM   #30
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I'd have to say that the only way to determine the answer is for that shooter to test himself in various positions, at various distances on paper plates. Then, throw in an excitement factor, a fatigue factor, a temperature factor, and distance error judgement factor. In short, I'd say "about 150 yards" is a decent high-probability shot, but only after proving ability to hit a paper plate about every shot from that position, out to 200 yards at the range.

Beyond 200 yards the 180 grain '06 round drops pretty fast, so errors in range estimating become critical.

Size of the animal's kill zone is a huge factor, I'm thinking deer-sized game.
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Old October 10, 2017, 09:31 AM   #31
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I like to figure my own Maximum range for a given rifle/caliber.

I use a ballistic calulater and after putting the correct data, such as velocity, bullet BC, weather, etc. etc. I end up with a table. At a point the bullet becomes sub-sonic. I use that range for the maximum for that given rifle and bullet.

Of course thats for poking holes in paper or hitting gongs. For hunting the maximum range would be shorter. Each hunting bullet needs a minimum velocity to work as intended.

When I select a bullet, I call the manufacturer and ask them. For example Berger recommends 1800 fps for their VLD Hunting bullets. So if I'm using their bullet, I set my max. range at the 1800 fps point.

Having said that, that doesnt mean I hunt at that range. For example with my 6.5 CM load, that would be about 800 yards. I've never saw the need to shoot at an animal at that range, but I'm the limiting factor there, not the bullet or rifle.

You can do the same with other bullets but the remaining velocity may be different. Personally I like the Hornaday Bullets for hunting. Doesnt mean they are the only bullets but they are just my favorite


I do know, from this years antelope hunting, my load worked quite well at 641 yards. Judging buy the exit hole, that same bullet would work effectively on elk at 600 or so yards.

One just needs to understand that there is a difference between maximum range and maximum effective range.
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