1903/A3 shooting high

DavidB2 · May 2, 2017, 06:58 AM

My 1903/A3 shoots about 10 inches high at 100 yards. There is no marked letter on the current sight blade. Bought an "A" stamped front sight blade which is the tallest; but it appears that my rifle already has an "A" marked blade as both are same size. Any other suggestions on lowering my point of aim? Rear sight ramp is all the way to the bottom. I had thought about sodering or using JB weld; and adding a taller bead to my current front sight. Not sure if that will stay attached. Thanks for your help.

Chris_B · May 2, 2017, 07:55 AM

Hi David. I don't know what a slider gun is so I can't help with that, unless you mean the ladder type rear sight from a 1903, which won't work on your 03A3.

However, I have had screwy results with my own 03A3, and it was due to the bayonet lug barrel band. It was a repro. I found an original USGI one and it solved my problems.

If you were to grasp the rifle near the muzzle, can you use your thumb to deflect the barrel a little, or is it pretty solidly in place?

Wyosmith · May 2, 2017, 08:19 AM

The front sight blade in a 1903A3 is a simple blade. It's pinned into the base.
You can drive out the pin and replace it with a hand made blade that is taller, or simply file it off to give a flat, and braze on a piece of steel to grind and file to shape that is taller.
When I have done it in the past I usually add about 1/10" which is WAY more then you need. It makes the rifle shoot low. Then you zero with your favorite load at the range with a hand file.
Fire a shot, file some off and so on.

You can figure it out mathematically, but it's about as easy to just go fire and file, fire and file, and a lot more fun.

DavidB2 · May 2, 2017, 10:31 AM

I apologize for my mistakes in the original post. I made corrections. I meant to say that it shoots 10 inches high. Also, since it is an 1902/a3 it has the small ramp rear sight vs the ladder of the 1903. I took it all the way to the bottom and it still shoots high. Thanks for any other suggestion.

tangolima · May 2, 2017, 11:18 AM

I would first make sure the barrel is not bent, and the bedding is correct, especially no upward pressure applied to the barrel near the muzzle.

If everything is normal, I would add height to the front sight. JB weld stik works fine. Soldering a section of brass rod to the tip of the front sight blade works too.

BTW, were you shooting at a bench with a firm rest under the butt stock? It may make the rifle shoot high, probably not as much as 10" (@100 yards?).

-TL

DavidB2 · May 2, 2017, 01:34 PM

I used a lead sled when shooting it the other day. A friend of mine is going to use some silver solder to increase the height of the front sight. He says that it is more durable than anything else I could use.

Paul B. · May 2, 2017, 01:54 PM

IIRC, the battle sight setting (slide at it's lowest position) was something like 300 or maybe 500 yards. This would explain why it shoot high at 100 yards although 10" seems a bit much. My copy of "The Book of the Springfield" is copyright 1932 so does not cover the 1903A3. I would have to assume that the same line of thinking for a battle sight setting would be the same or similar.

Paul B.

mehavey · May 2, 2017, 04:28 PM

`03 battlesight was set at 547yds (500m amongst us friends)
12-15" in high at 100 left you with a point-blank +/- 18" out to that range.

Put the post on center mass and pull the trigger -- casualty.

MosinNOUGAT · May 2, 2017, 05:32 PM

I don't have experience with these, but some Mosins shot high because the Russians were told to aim for the belt buckle for a torso hit. Maybe it was the same??? I wouldn't know, but I hope this helps!

Best,

MosinNOUGAT

supercub99 · May 3, 2017, 12:37 AM

Most, most 1903A3's shoot fine at a 100 with a bottom of the bull hold.

The rear sight slides on the dovetail and is either staked on or has a set screw depending on early or latter production. If your rifle is a virgin then that should be ok there, but if not and it's been messed with then that can cause you problems. There were a lot of people in the past few years that were buying up surplus 03A3 receivers that were former drill rifles. They would cut welds, remove barrels and rebuild those into guns using a lot of Chinese repo parts. Anything goes when it comes to those. Here is the military sight blade number system for the 03A3:

A .537
B .522
C .507
D .492
E .477

As you can see, the A is the tallest. I would measure the A on it and see if it's correct per the list above.

In your case, a piece of steel, .050 thick and about .096 higher would do it given your results with what you have now.

As to barrel pressure;. The military put anywhere from 4-6 pounds of pressure at the last inch of the stock. Competition shooters often put up to 10 pounds of pressure there. Seldom will a 03A3 shoot well with 0 pressure at the tip. If you take the action out of the stock, you will see there is a raised area in the stock at the tip, that's why it's there.

Good luck

Buckeye! · May 7, 2017, 10:06 AM

I have a original 1917 Enfield.. 220 gr Remington best 180 gr Federal 2nd best @ 100 yds .. both shoot about 4 inches high at that distance ..

Absolutely love that rifle .. My wife got it for me Christmas 1988 .... amazing shape ...

T. O'Heir · May 7, 2017, 11:29 AM

I'd be guessing there's something more than the front sight that isn't right. Look at the whole thing before soldering anything.
"...suggestions on lowering my point of aim..." Lower your POI, like supercub99 says. Use a 6 o'clock hold.

ammo.crafter · May 7, 2017, 11:46 AM

What sort of groups are you getting?

If they are tight and consistent even though 10" high, that would eliminate several possibilities.

If this will not be a collector gun, a talented welder could add to the front sight. File the sides to match the existing sight profile and fire off a few rounds to see where they hit.

If low, file down, if still high, back to the welder.

Good luck.

10-96 · May 7, 2017, 10:49 PM

I can't help but wondering about this. Would it even be possible that a previous owner might've slipped in a M1 Carbine rear sight?

DavidB2- Can you post pics of both of the sights?

DavidB2 · May 8, 2017, 04:00 PM

A machinist friend of mine added a bit of silver solder to raise the height of the sight. I will take it to the range in the next few days to sight it in. I don't plan on this being a collector. I need point of aim accuracy at 100+ yards as I will not be shooting much further that that without a scope. This should fix the problem.

JJ45 · May 8, 2017, 05:36 PM

I might have missed it but I didn't see what type ammo was used.

I have a Finn M39 and a K98 and they both shoot high with the rear sight bottomed out and with ammo as close to what the weapons were designed for. These rifles were intended to shoot high.

About 5 inches high at 100 yards with both of these military rifles which is close to battle sight elevation.

Using a lighter, higher velocity load MIGHT lower POI but even if it does I doubt it will lower it more than 2 or 3 inches.

Military long arms were designed to "fit" a myriad different configurations of human beings and in those days a 10" high group would probably be ideal for volley fire

DavidB2 · May 23, 2017, 10:51 PM

I ad a friend attach a higher sight blade and was able to get the rifle on target.

May 2, 2017, 06:58 AM	#1
DavidB2 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 129	1903/A3 shooting high My 1903/A3 shoots about 10 inches high at 100 yards. There is no marked letter on the current sight blade. Bought an "A" stamped front sight blade which is the tallest; but it appears that my rifle already has an "A" marked blade as both are same size. Any other suggestions on lowering my point of aim? Rear sight ramp is all the way to the bottom. I had thought about sodering or using JB weld; and adding a taller bead to my current front sight. Not sure if that will stay attached. Thanks for your help. Last edited by DavidB2; May 2, 2017 at 10:28 AM.

May 2, 2017, 10:31 AM	#4
DavidB2 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 129	sorry for mistakes I apologize for my mistakes in the original post. I made corrections. I meant to say that it shoots 10 inches high. Also, since it is an 1902/a3 it has the small ramp rear sight vs the ladder of the 1903. I took it all the way to the bottom and it still shoots high. Thanks for any other suggestion.

May 2, 2017, 11:18 AM	#5
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,824	I would first make sure the barrel is not bent, and the bedding is correct, especially no upward pressure applied to the barrel near the muzzle. If everything is normal, I would add height to the front sight. JB weld stik works fine. Soldering a section of brass rod to the tip of the front sight blade works too. BTW, were you shooting at a bench with a firm rest under the butt stock? It may make the rifle shoot high, probably not as much as 10" (@100 yards?). -TL Last edited by tangolima; May 2, 2017 at 11:23 AM.

May 2, 2017, 01:54 PM	#7
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	IIRC, the battle sight setting (slide at it's lowest position) was something like 300 or maybe 500 yards. This would explain why it shoot high at 100 yards although 10" seems a bit much. My copy of "The Book of the Springfield" is copyright 1932 so does not cover the 1903A3. I would have to assume that the same line of thinking for a battle sight setting would be the same or similar. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

May 2, 2017, 05:32 PM	#9
MosinNOUGAT Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2017 Location: Southwest US Posts: 148	I don't have experience with these, but some Mosins shot high because the Russians were told to aim for the belt buckle for a torso hit. Maybe it was the same??? I wouldn't know, but I hope this helps! Best, MosinNOUGAT __________________ O LA VITTORIA, O TUTTI ACCOPPATI!

May 2, 2017, 07:55 AM	#2
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Hi David. I don't know what a slider gun is so I can't help with that, unless you mean the ladder type rear sight from a 1903, which won't work on your 03A3. However, I have had screwy results with my own 03A3, and it was due to the bayonet lug barrel band. It was a repro. I found an original USGI one and it solved my problems. If you were to grasp the rifle near the muzzle, can you use your thumb to deflect the barrel a little, or is it pretty solidly in place?

May 2, 2017, 08:19 AM	#3
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	The front sight blade in a 1903A3 is a simple blade. It's pinned into the base. You can drive out the pin and replace it with a hand made blade that is taller, or simply file it off to give a flat, and braze on a piece of steel to grind and file to shape that is taller. When I have done it in the past I usually add about 1/10" which is WAY more then you need. It makes the rifle shoot low. Then you zero with your favorite load at the range with a hand file. Fire a shot, file some off and so on. You can figure it out mathematically, but it's about as easy to just go fire and file, fire and file, and a lot more fun.

May 2, 2017, 01:34 PM	#6
DavidB2 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 129	I used a lead sled when shooting it the other day. A friend of mine is going to use some silver solder to increase the height of the front sight. He says that it is more durable than anything else I could use.

May 2, 2017, 04:28 PM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	`03 battlesight was set at 547yds (500m amongst us friends) 12-15" in high at 100 left you with a point-blank +/- 18" out to that range. Put the post on center mass and pull the trigger -- casualty.

May 3, 2017, 12:37 AM	#10
supercub99 Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 146	Most, most 1903A3's shoot fine at a 100 with a bottom of the bull hold. The rear sight slides on the dovetail and is either staked on or has a set screw depending on early or latter production. If your rifle is a virgin then that should be ok there, but if not and it's been messed with then that can cause you problems. There were a lot of people in the past few years that were buying up surplus 03A3 receivers that were former drill rifles. They would cut welds, remove barrels and rebuild those into guns using a lot of Chinese repo parts. Anything goes when it comes to those. Here is the military sight blade number system for the 03A3: A .537 B .522 C .507 D .492 E .477 As you can see, the A is the tallest. I would measure the A on it and see if it's correct per the list above. In your case, a piece of steel, .050 thick and about .096 higher would do it given your results with what you have now. As to barrel pressure;. The military put anywhere from 4-6 pounds of pressure at the last inch of the stock. Competition shooters often put up to 10 pounds of pressure there. Seldom will a 03A3 shoot well with 0 pressure at the tip. If you take the action out of the stock, you will see there is a raised area in the stock at the tip, that's why it's there. Good luck

May 7, 2017, 10:06 AM	#11
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	I have a original 1917 Enfield.. 220 gr Remington best 180 gr Federal 2nd best @ 100 yds .. both shoot about 4 inches high at that distance .. Absolutely love that rifle .. My wife got it for me Christmas 1988 .... amazing shape ...

May 7, 2017, 11:29 AM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	I'd be guessing there's something more than the front sight that isn't right. Look at the whole thing before soldering anything. "...suggestions on lowering my point of aim..." Lower your POI, like supercub99 says. Use a 6 o'clock hold. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 7, 2017, 11:46 AM	#13
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	0303 What sort of groups are you getting? If they are tight and consistent even though 10" high, that would eliminate several possibilities. If this will not be a collector gun, a talented welder could add to the front sight. File the sides to match the existing sight profile and fire off a few rounds to see where they hit. If low, file down, if still high, back to the welder. Good luck. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

May 7, 2017, 10:49 PM	#14
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	I can't help but wondering about this. Would it even be possible that a previous owner might've slipped in a M1 Carbine rear sight? DavidB2- Can you post pics of both of the sights? __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

May 8, 2017, 04:00 PM	#15
DavidB2 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 129	A machinist friend of mine added a bit of silver solder to raise the height of the sight. I will take it to the range in the next few days to sight it in. I don't plan on this being a collector. I need point of aim accuracy at 100+ yards as I will not be shooting much further that that without a scope. This should fix the problem.

May 8, 2017, 05:36 PM	#16
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	I might have missed it but I didn't see what type ammo was used. I have a Finn M39 and a K98 and they both shoot high with the rear sight bottomed out and with ammo as close to what the weapons were designed for. These rifles were intended to shoot high. About 5 inches high at 100 yards with both of these military rifles which is close to battle sight elevation. Using a lighter, higher velocity load MIGHT lower POI but even if it does I doubt it will lower it more than 2 or 3 inches. Military long arms were designed to "fit" a myriad different configurations of human beings and in those days a 10" high group would probably be ideal for volley fire

May 23, 2017, 10:51 PM	#17
DavidB2 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 129	Problem resolved I ad a friend attach a higher sight blade and was able to get the rifle on target.