Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?

[MosinNOUGAT]

I've heard this from many different places. I think it makes no sense, but I was just wondering.

[SHR970]

The benchrest crowd use bolt actions.

As a general rule...a bolt will usually be more accurate. That does not mean they are ALL more accurate. Semi's can be very accurate too. But the differences GENERALLY aren't that great to the average shooter or hunter. It's only when you are trying to squeeze that last little bit of accuracy out that it matters. And to those folks, they weigh their bullets, cases, trim cases just so, neck ream cases, hand weigh each powder charge, use micrometer dies, etc.

[MosinNOUGAT]

Thanks, that was fast!

[KAOS THE CAT]

Faster than a SPEEDING BULLET!

KAOS THE CAT

[MosinNOUGAT]

It seems that replies ARE coming in (to my other posts) faster than a speeding bullet!

[Wyosmith]

As a rule the bolt action is going to be easier and cheaper to get super good accuracy from then an AR, but the idea that ARs cannot shoot as well is not true.
Get a copy of "Black Magic" by John Feamster and you'll see how well ARs can shoot.

Just as an example, here is a group I shot at 100 yards about 14 years ago. Now to be honest, the reason I kept this one is that it's the very best group I ever shot in my life with an iron sighted rifle. I cannot do this on demand.
The hole on the lower right was the last sighter. I came up one click and over one click and fired the last 4 rounds.


But the rifle will take a scope and I have scoped it now that I am getting old eyes. It shoots about this well most times with good ammo.

[std7mag]

Yes, and no..

Art of the rifle has guys hitting steel at 1 mile with both types of guns.

For most mortals, bolt is USUALLY more accurate.

Of course i would like to see more of the semi guys at the range shoot further than 25 yards too.

[MosinNOUGAT]

That is true. Most do only shoot that far with their AR's, but I always see guys with bolt action rifles and high power scopes shooting much further.

[ThomasT]

It is probably easier to make an accurate bolt action than to make a super accurate semi-auto.

[CalmerThanYou]

I just got my AR15 set up to do some longer range shooting. I look forward to putting in the time to tune it up and see how far I can get out. Most of the older gents at the range look down on the "black gun" so I look forward to refining my skills, trying different ammo etc.....

[TXAZ]

If you start to look at *ALL* of the issues that affect accuracy and precision of a rifle, a semi- has multiple additional variables that bolt action rifles don't.
For a couple of rifles that cost roughly the same, an AR-50 that has been accurized by Martin List can shoot 1/4 MOA at 1,000 yards, while a Semi Barrett M107 will shoot 1-1.25 MOA, both with match ammo (and a shooter as good).

You do the math.

[Slamfire]

In contests where the human is eliminated, the stiffer bolt action is the more accurate. However, the Camp Perry National Matches have been won many times by shooters using rifles based around AR15's or AR10's. Having pulled targets with shooters who used the things, a match grade AR10 will shoot half MOA and that is better than I can hold. I won a number of medals in my class with a 223 Spacegun.

Across the course shooting involves standing (200 yards), sitting rapid fire (200 yards), prone rapid fire (300 yards) , and prone slow fire (600 yards). A piece of wisdom I learned was that you win the match standing, and lose it slow fire prone. All the very good shooters clean the rapids, but gas gunners get higher X counts. At long range, the difference between the best shooters is at most a point or two regardless of the rifle they are shooting. However, standing, very few shoot 197's or 198's, or 199's. I scored a HM who shot a 200 at Camp Perry and the guys in the pits cut out his target and gave it to him. Shooting a 200 standing is like a professional pitcher throwing a no hitter.

At 600 yards, I am going to say that wind reading abilities are more important than whether the action is a bolt gun or a gas gun. You get the wind wrong and your bullet drifts out in distances that are best measures in yards.

Owning the most accurate rifle in the world does not mean the owner can hit the broad side of barn, even if the shooter is inside the barn. Shooting is a skill and it takes practice to get good at it.

[ripnbst]

"Back in the day" that was more true than it is now. Being an engineer I'll tell you this, the less moving parts the better and generally speaking a bolt gun is a more simple mechanism than a semi. Therefore it is inherently harder to screw up in manufacturing.


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[chuckscap]

For bench rest and all long range competitive shooting, lots of things come into play that hunters and recreational shooters would never consider. A bolt action, particularly a short action, tends to be stiffer and the action, bolt and barrel (since it's not removeable) can be trued to a fine degree. that can be sone in an AR rifle, but it's probably a bit more complicated. Trigger lock time in either case as well as lack of slack/creep/overtravel can be good in both. Finally the barrel and the handloads are probably more important than the action type. My two cents.

[Stats Shooter]

As has been said, the short answer is that yes, bolt action, all things equal, will be more accurate. When the bolt slams forward on a gasser, it has the potential to set the bullet back a bit AND set the shoulder back a bit. With long range loads IBR shooters, and to a lesser extent me who shoots 1k F-CLASS, take great pains to ensure a consistent case dimension and cartridge base to bullet ogive. At 1k yards a 0.002 bullet setback in my comp gun could change POI by 1/2" or more. Couple that with a smaller case volume due to shoulder setback and it compounds.

Then, if the bullets are deformed in anyway when being violently stripped off the mag, that would make matters worse. IBR and a couple guys I have been shooting with will uniform the bullet tips which would be undone by such violence when chambering.

Finally, there is the trigger....I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put a 4oz trigger on a semi-auto.

Don't get me wrong, AR's can be very accurate. I have a 1/2" moa load in my Gas piston 20" Varmint barrel AR that I shot an F-TR match with, 562-18x. And my AR 10 Ruger SR 762 is 1/2-3/4 moa with my Federal GMM cloan hand load.

But my F-CLASS rifle shoots 3/4-1" groups at 300 yards, all day, every day, no fliers..and I don't mean that is the best it will do, I mean that is what it does at worst on a calm day. Not gonna happen in either of my high dollar AR's.

[jmr40]

It is possible to make a semi-auto pretty accurate, they can be close, but all things being equal the bolt gun wins. IF you throw enough money at it. You can buy a $400 bolt gun that will outshoot a $4000 semi-auto.

There is also the ammo issue. Semi-autos need ammo that operates within a narrow range of pressure in order for the rifle to function. Ammo for bolt guns can be loaded to much broader ranges from very light to loads very hot loads that would never work in a semi-auto. Depending on the desired outcome sometimes very light loads may prove to be the most accurate, and for extreme ranges sometimes hotter loads are necessary.

[TXAZ]

Mississippi noted

Finally, there is the trigger....I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put a 4oz trigger on a semi-auto.

Uh yea, that's effectively a Class III weapon, and from a safety point the reason that Barrett's, Serbu BFG's, and other semi-.50's have 8 lb+ triggers out of the factory.
With the large recoil motion on High power rifles, emptying the mag would almost be a guarantee with a 4 oz (or 1.5 oz in a few cases) .50 cal trigger.

[dakota.potts]

It really depends on your qualifier for accuracy. An AM is not likely to beat a Winchester Model 70 (note the qualifier likely) but there are accurate semi autos. Bolt actions are far easier to make consistently accurate and with fewer trade offs to balance (recoil, weight, magazine capacity, portability etc) as far as design purposes and engineering go.

One should consider the intended use for the question

[armoredman]

Which bolt action against which semi auto?
My BREN 805 will out shoot my old Mosin Nagant M38 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
My CZ 527M/CSR will leave my wife's old Mini-14 in the dust at any range.

[Stats Shooter]

It is possible to make a semi-auto pretty accurate, they can be close, but all things being equal the bolt gun wins. IF you throw enough money at it. You can buy a $400 bolt gun that will outshoot a $4000 semi-auto.

This quote really sums it up. As I said, I have a Varmint AR that will usually hold 1/2 MOA, but I have about $3,000 into that gun/scope/trigger etc. My wife's hunting rifle is a Ruger American .270 win, $350 out the door...every single combo of bullets and powder I have tried in that gun are sub MOA and the load she uses now, Just cheap Hornady 130gr SST's and H4831 shoots bugholes at 100 yards.

So, sure, AR's can be accurate...because Sub MOA is accurate in my opinion. But if you compare costs, vs absolute group size, vs the amount of time and effort to get your semi-auto accurate...you will be miles ahead using a bolt action. Thats really it.

[roashooter]

Yes they are

[pete2]

My AR will outshoot my Model 70 .243 and my Ruger 77 in .270. So the answer really is that the bolt isn't always more accurate than the semi.

[Art Eatman]

Generalizing, yeah, bolt guns shoot tighter groups than semis.

Few of today's major brands of basic bolt guns won't shoot groups near one MOA.

Few basic semis from the various manufacturers will group that tight.

Again, "basic"; not the worked-on, somewhat custom, special-purpose versions.

[Picher]

As you have seen in writing, semi-auto rifles CAN shoot about as well as bolt-action rifles. On average, I'd say they don't.

There are very good reasons for having a bolt-action over a semi-auto. One being that reloaders can reuse brass cases with fewer problems. Reloads can be lighter or hotter than those that function well in many semi-autos.

Reloads don't cause as many problems in bolt guns because chambering and extraction is more robust and they don't rely on a certain amount of cartridge energy to operate the action.

Bolt guns are easier than most semi-autos to clean and are less likely to hurt the shooter if something plugs the barrel in the field, then it's fired.

Bolt guns also tolerate cold, snowy, or icy weather better than semis. I've cleaned many Rem 742s after the owners took them out in the rain and put them away wet. It's not a pretty sight.

Bolt actions are often lighter than semi-autos, so they're easier to carry on long hunts. For instance, my Tikka T3 Lite is a fantastically accurate and easy-to-carry rifle.

Most good hunters don't need more than one shot. After the first shot, a critter is often moving fast, so second or more shots are not a big advantage, except for wide open shots on varmints like coyotes or hogs, where a person can shoot more than one.

Shotguns used for flying or running small game are a different story. Semi-auto shotguns can harvest small game on second or third shots easier than pumps. Bolt-action shotguns are the pits!

JP

[44 AMP]

I've heard this from many different places. I think it makes no sense, but I was just wondering.

It's true, and has been since the invention of semi automatics. But its only true when you lump everything together in groups. Individual rifles of either type can be more accurate than other individual rifles of either type.

Do note the huge percentage of "accurate" semi autos mentioned in the responses are ARs. When talking about accuracy and semi autos, about the only one discussed these days is the AR (and variants). And its true, the current generation of the AR design is accurate, generally, it is the most accurate semi auto ever produced, to date.

Now add in all the other semi autos that aren't generally as accurate as the AR, (such as AKs, and dozens of other military and sporting designs) and I think your average accuracy for "semi automatics" will be a bit lower than taking all the bolt actions, military, sporting, & target, and doing the same.

Simply put, there are two basic things that impact the accuracy of semis vs. bolt actions.

First is the fact that accuracy is repeatability. The gun fires every shot exactly the same way. The harmonics of the rifle vibration during firing being as close to exactly the same every time, is what makes a rifle accurate, or not.

The greater the number of parts, and moving parts, the more difficult this is to achieve. The more complex mechanism of a semi auto makes it more difficult to get uniformity than the bolt action. (More difficult is not impossible)

The other thing is simply, the overwhelming majority of semi autos were never designed with ultimate accuracy in mind. They were designed and built to be accurate enough to do the intended job. If a 3MOA rifle reliably puts meat in the freezer or takes down enemy troops, there's very little reason to spend the time & money to build a sub MOA one, IF it can even be done.