Interchangeable Bullets

[Old Ugly]

Are the bullets from a .30-40 Krag, .30-30 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield all interchangeable?

[Roughedge]

they are all 30 cal. bullets but they are different shapes for the 30-30 for the tubular mag. I have a 30-30 TC contender that I load BT bullets for because its single shot.

[Mike / Tx]

As mentioned they are all .308 caliber, but, the magazine from which they are fed will make the differences in which ones you can use for what.

If you have a single shot like mentioned then your good to go. I read where a lot of folks only load two rounds in their 30-30 both being a spitzer type, one in the chamber one in the mag. This I guess in their minds eye alleviates the possibility of one round setting the other off. Personally my only 30-30 is a Contender as well so I don't have any issues at all.

[flashhole]

Not to be picking nits but they are all 30 caliber bullets at .308" diameter.

[Old Ugly]

Flashhole, i'm as new as it gets to reloading and none of the articles or books I read covered this so I was just wondering if maybe the bottoms or something were shaped a little different or something like that.

[Old Ugly]

I'm so new infact that I haven't even reloaded a single bullet yet, i've got to read some more books i got coming in the mail before i take that step.

[dahermit]

I was just wondering if maybe the bottoms or something were shaped a little different or something like that.

There are just two types of "bottoms". Flat base and "boat tail". Boat tailed bullets are popular for long-range shooting, the flat based bullets are usually for closer range. For instance a 30-30 Winchester bullet would generally not use boat tail bullets. Nevertheless, I am sure someone has done it, and may be doing so currently.

The biggest difference between the .308 cartridges you mentioned is the shape of the nose. Flat and round-nose bullets for the 30-30 because of the tubular magazines (and traditionally round bullets for 30-40), and spire pointed bullets for the .308 Winchester, and 30-06 for flatter trajectories. It is notable that there currently are bullets for the 30-30 that are pointed, but the point is a soft plastic that cannot set the primer off in the cartridges ahead of it in the tubular magazine.

Are the bullets from a .30-40 Krag, .30-30 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield all interchangeable?

Although as others have posted, they are all the same in diameter. Generally 30-30 bullet weights are either 150 grain or 170 grain. The 30-06 bullets for hunting range from 150, 165, 180 and 220 grains. There are some lighter .30 caliber bullets for varmints. The 30-40 Krag, I do not remember for sure, but think the commercial load was 150 and 180 grains also, but there may have been a 220 commercial load for that too. Any loading manual will show the different bullet weights and styles commonly used for that cartridge.

[FrankenMauser]

There are just two types of "bottoms". Flat base and "boat tail". Boat tailed bullets are popular for long-range shooting, the flat based bullets are usually for closer range. For instance a 30-30 Winchester bullet would generally not use boat tail bullets. Nevertheless, I am sure someone has done it, and may be doing so currently.

You can break flat-base and boat-tail categories down into sub-categories, as well. They are essentially the same; but the little differences within the same category can mean the difference between a bullet that's easy to load, and a bullet that snags case mouths and ruins cases, or a bullet that tends not to seat concentrically.


For example... some common 'variants' within the flat-base category:
Radiused edge:
The .30-40 Krag is a great example of a cartridge that uses a lot of "flat base" bullets that actually have a small (~0.025") radius around the base. The radius helps bullet alignment while seating, and prevents crushed necks.

Beveled edge:
Many bullets larger than .22 caliber have a slight chamfer/bevel around the edge of the base. Like the radius found on ".30-40 bullets", it helps with alignment and damage prevention. But, with thin case walls, it isn't as effective at preventing snags as the radiused base.

[flashhole]

Old Ugly wrote - "Flashhole, i'm as new as it gets to reloading and none of the articles or books I read covered this so I was just wondering if maybe the bottoms or something were shaped a little different or something like that."

There's plenty of room for confusion, especially when you look at all the different cartridges in the same caliber. An example - 22 caliber cartridges - 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 219 Wasp, 221 Fireball, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 224 Winchester, 220 Swift, 22-250 and more all shoot the same diameter bullet .224". Case shape and powder capacity separate them on the performance scale and there is no rhyme or reason for how names are assigned. Throw in barrel twist that favor specific bullet profiles, weight and length and you have a puzzle that takes a while to piece together. And that's not even looking at powder selection.

[wogpotter]

As you dont say which bullet you're thinking of uising where I thought I'd pass on a bit of experience for you. 30-30 in a .308 rifle will definitely load & fit. It''ll go bang as well, but there's a bit more to it than just that. Bullets are designed for a rifling twist & velocity range, if you go outrside that range you may not get acceptable performance.

I was given some 30-30 bullets that were found & I loaded them in a .308, which is also.308" dia. On firing they disintegrated withing 10 feet of the muzzle spraying a target with smears of lead. I couldn't figure out why they weren't hitting a 25 yd sighting in target so I moved closer to discover the problem. I guess the twist rate & much higher velocity were just more than the bullet was designed for.

[fshfindr]

roughedge, I always wanted more toys because I thought it was the, "man who dies with the most toys, wins".

[Dirty Dan]

Dear Old Ugly...I believe in the KISS Principle. "Keep it Simple Stupid"

Honestly, your question really concerned me...For your safety...

If the caliber is not stamped on the barrel, do not use the ammo...

Rifles, and pistols can be fixed or replaced, but fingers, or hands blown off, eyes put out, even death, due to ignorance, or negligence, cannot. Daddy said the only stupid question is the one you did not ask! Your question tells me you want to know the "right" answer, and your question, might possibly save a newby from a horrible accident! Thanks for asking..DD

[dahermit]

Honestly, your question really concerned me...For your safety...
If the caliber is not stamped on the barrel, do not use the ammo...

This is a handloading forum...the original poster did not say anything about using ammo (cartridges) that was not made for his gun. He was merely asking about the possible differences in the common .30 caliber (.308 diameter), bullets.

[Bezoar]

you can but there are rules.

1. a bullet for a 30-30 will have a different location for the cannelure. SO i fyou simply go by that line, you will have cartridge length issues.

2. lenghth to weight to diamemeter ratio will be off. but careful work can make that dissapear.

[dahermit]

1. a bullet for a 30-30 will have a different location for the cannelure. SO i fyou simply go by that line, you will have cartridge length issues.

If you have a 30-06 and buy some commercial rounds, or hand load some '06 bullets and crimp them in the channelure, there is no guarantee that the crimped cartridges have an ideal OAL for your rifle even thought that bullet was intended for your rifle.

2. lenghth to weight to diamemeter ratio will be off. but careful work can make that dissapear.

O.K., I'll bite...How do you change (make that disappear), the length to weight to diameter ratio? Use the example of a 150 grain round-nose 30-30 bullet, loaded in a 30-06 casing, so I can follow along. This is not going to involve Quantum Mechanics or String Theory, is it?

[sc928porsche]

30/40 and 30-06 bullets will interchange. You can also interchange 30/30 to 30/40 or 30-06, but do not interchange 30/40 and 30-06 to 30/30. 30/30 requires a flat tipped bullet because of tubular magazine to prevent the chance of the bullet from setting off the primer of the cartridge in front of it.

As far as I know, the only .308 diameter bullet that the manufacturers list as cartridge specific are for the 30/30.

[Grizz12]

I have the ruger GSR (.308) and decided to try all bullets weights from 100gr up to 168gr. I may go heavier but the lighter ones are easier on me and cost less. One of the reasons I decided on getting the gsr is because of the wide variety of bullets available.

Does anyone have experience loading the lighter weights in the gsr?

[Geezerbiker]

To throw a wrench into the works, not all .30-30's are tube feed. I have one with a box mag...

Tony

[dahermit]

30/30 requires a flat tipped bullet because of tubular magazine to prevent the chance of the bullet from setting off the primer of the cartridge in front of it.

Or, round-nose for 30-30?

[dahermit]

To throw a wrench into the works, not all .30-30's are tube feed. I have one with a box mag...

Me too. I had a Winchester Model 52 (or was it 54), in 30-30 Winchester.

[Bezoar]

sectional density can be an issue for some guns.

[SSA]

How do you change (make that disappear), the length to weight to diameter ratio?

Pull the trigger.
All the sectional density issues disappear out the end of the barrel.

[FrankenMauser]

To throw a wrench into the works, not all .30-30's are tube feed. I have one with a box mag...

Exactly.

There are tube-fed .30-06s, .30-40s, and .308s; box-magazine-fed .30-30s; and rotary-mag-fed .30-40s and .308s (plus any other combination you can think of).

Bullet shape should not be dictated by the cartridge it's going in, as much as the rifle it's being fired in (type of magazine, and chamber dimensions). Even then... you can use anything you want (of appropriate diameter), so long as the reloader and shooter understand any potential limitations, and/or safety precautions, inherent to the combination.


I shoot 60 gr XTPs (.312") and 125 gr Ballistic Tips in a tube-fed .30-30. I have also used 220 gr RN bullets in that .30-30. And, I have used 165 gr Swift Sciroccos and Remington Core-Lokts in a .30-40. None of them are recommended combinations, but did just fine, when used with an understanding of their limitations.

[Clark]

I have shot a .355" bullet through a .308 groove barrel.
The lead core went through, but the jacket stayed behind in the chamber.

Ackley shot .323" bullets through a .308 groove barrel, with no increase in pressure. But he had to open the chamber neck, so the bullet could get going before it swaged down to the bore size.
This phenomena of large bullets working in a small bore without
pressure spikes is documented in P.O. Ackley 1966 "Handbook for Shooters
and Reloaders Vol 2" chapter 7
"additional pressure tests":
"..30 cal barrel pressure barrel was fitted to the test gun, but the neck and throat was enlarged to accept the 8mm bullet, with the bore remaining the standard 30 caliber. A Remington factory 30-06 cartridge with the 150 gr bullet had been tested and previously gave 57,300 psi, for a velocity of 3030 fps. The the bullets were pulled from two more Remington 150 grain cartridges and were replaced with 8mm 150 grain bullets. To everyone's surprise, although the velocity was rather erratic, these loads averaged 2901 fps, with a pressure of 40,700 psi."