How many rounds to wear out 870 action bars??

.300 Weatherby Mag · April 10, 2012, 11:04 PM

So the action bars on my 870 Wingmaster are worn out and no longer engage the shell stops... I now need a new forend tube/action bar assembly.. How many rounds does it take to do this??

the rifleer · April 10, 2012, 11:13 PM

Thousands and thousands. I'm actually surprised that happen if it is in fact due to wear.

TheKlawMan · April 11, 2012, 02:34 AM

Is that what was preventing the second shell from clearing that one shell stop? You can't have more than a few thousand through it.

Virginian · April 11, 2012, 07:37 AM

Something doesn't sound right here. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of rounds is more likely required to wear out the action bars. These models used to be used a ton in trap shooting with excellent results. The notches in the action bars actuate the shell stops, so if the notch location got worn it would affect the timing a little, but it would not disable the gun for a long, long time.

.300 Weatherby Mag · April 11, 2012, 11:03 AM

Forgot to mention this gun is from 1963.. I don't know how many round the previous owner or owners put through it... I've put probably 10K through it with my brother putting another 3-4K through it.. The action bar notches are almost worn smooth...

BigJimP · April 11, 2012, 11:57 AM

The Browning BPS ....I think is an equivalent gun in terms of quality to the Rem 870 Wingmaster...

and on my BPS 12ga Hunter model ...I started to see some wear on internal parts in the gun ( on the bolt traveler, a little bit on the action bars, etc.. about 15 yrs after I first bought that gun ....and in those days, it was my primary gun for Trap and bird hunting ...so about 15,000 shells a yr thru that gun ...so I'd call it about 225,000 shells at that point.

I still have that gun ....and its not a primary clay target gun anymore ...and the wear on it has not significantly increased...in the last 15 yrs...and I'd say it has about 250,000 shells thru it now.

Completely worn out as you observed...has to be at least 500,000 shells in my opinion - but who really knows...??

Wear on a pump gun ...or a semi-auto ....will always be greater than on an O/U ...where I know I have close to 250,000 shells thru some of my O/U's with very little, if any, wear on internal components.

Some of my grandpa's pump guns / semi-autos ..( bought in the 1920's - 1950's ....looked heavily used / in and out of gun racks in trucks, blinds, etc....and he killed a lot of game with it ...but I don't think he ever shot more than 250 shells a yr ...thru any of those guns .....where 40 yrs of use would only make up 10,000 shells..../ but a serious clay target shooter in that same time frame of the 30's - 50's ...put a lot of shells thru their guns just like many of us do today.

A gun made in 1963 ...isn't that old ...

--- especially compared to old guys like Klawman and Zippy..../ but if it did see 10,000 shells a yr...( 400 boxes a yr ) ... / that's almost 500,000 ...
---------------
It might cost you more to repair that gun ...than its worth ...unless it has a lot of sentimental value to you ....it might just be better to sell it off for parts to someone ...and pick up something else to shoot ( I know you have other guns ...) .. / and I don't know what the new Wingmasters cost these days ...but the Browning BPS Hunter model, 12ga or 20ga, 28" barrel and Invector Plus chokes ..sells new for around $ 550 .... even though the list for about $ 659 ( and they come in 16ga, and 28ga and .410 as well ) but so does the Rem 870 Wingmaster I presume.../ not trying to talk you out of another Wingmaster...just using BPS as an example of the same quality - in my view.

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...2&tid=211&bg=x

M4BGRINGO · April 11, 2012, 04:55 PM

The arms on my 870 did not wear out, but when I had problems with the action and found the arms were no longer parallel, that is when I found where the arms attach to the tube, there was a big crack. I think I spent less than $100 to buy the pieces needed to fix it, perfect once again.

Dave McC · April 11, 2012, 08:53 PM

Haven't ever seen this. And some of my 870s have seen beaucoup rounds.

And my duties used to include maintaining more than 30 agency 870s.

Do check the bars for straightness and being parallel. A deep clean and flushing behind the latches may also help....

bamaranger · April 12, 2012, 12:48 AM

My brother in law shoots trap with the same 870 for yrs. And he shoots ALOT. The round count in his gun, 10 years ago, was was well over 50,000. But, it is a single load proposition, drop a shell in the port, close the action. ....bang.

I have seen the action bars get warped/tweaked.

TheKlawMan · April 12, 2012, 12:18 PM

I have heard that action bars on an 870 can become tweaked if the forend isn't pulled straight back and especially if the action assembly slighly askew. If that was a problem wear marks on the magazine tube would be less than parallel to the axis of the tube.

zippy13 · April 12, 2012, 12:44 PM

300-WM, my friend, things are not always as they seem. Is there the possibility that a previous owner may have "worked on" the bars? Seeing hammers with reduced sear notches is not uncommon -- some shooters try their hands at "trigger" jobs. Perhaps someone tried an "action" job on your 870. You know, remove a little metal here and remove a little there, it's got to speed things up.

A lot can happen in 49-years. Of course, to those of us who are older than BigJim, a gun made in '63 is nearly new.

BigJimP · April 12, 2012, 12:50 PM

Zippy, my friend,

I figured you'd catch my comment before klawman did ...

but yes, a gun made in 1963 ...just doesn't seem that old anymore ...

.300 Weatherby Mag · April 12, 2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

300-WM, my friend, things are not always as they seem. Is there the possibility that a previous owner may have "worked on" the bars? Seeing hammers with reduced sear notches is not uncommon -- some shooters try their hands at "trigger" jobs. Perhaps someone tried an "action" job on your 870. You know, remove a little metal here and remove a little there, it's got to speed things up.

A lot can happen in 49-years. Of course, to those of us who are older than BigJim, a gun made in '63 is nearly new.

Zippy this is a possibility... Although the gun has all the bluing worn off the mag tube and has very little bluing left on the reciever... The gun has been in the family for 14 years and I know in that time it has not been tampered with..

jaguarxk120 · April 12, 2012, 02:45 PM

That leaves 35 years and how many owners to change/improve the gun.

zippy13 · April 12, 2012, 03:17 PM

A buddy of mine who owned a rod and gun shop (but not a gunsmith) decided to work on the trigger of a brand new Ruger target pistol. He didn't improve the trigger. If you set the safety and pulled the trigger nothing would happen, but it would fire when you released the safety (a scary situation). He sold me the pistol for pennies on the dollar. I peened the trigger link, were he'd removed too much material, and the gun has served me faithfully ever since. A Volquartsen kit improved the trigger.

340 Weatherby · April 13, 2012, 12:27 AM

When it's the only Remington Shotgun in the family that still worked, it needs to be fixed. It didn't even require custom ammunition.

April 10, 2012, 11:04 PM	#1
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	How many rounds to wear out 870 action bars?? So the action bars on my 870 Wingmaster are worn out and no longer engage the shell stops... I now need a new forend tube/action bar assembly.. How many rounds does it take to do this??

April 10, 2012, 11:13 PM	#2
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	Thousands and thousands. I'm actually surprised that happen if it is in fact due to wear. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

April 11, 2012, 11:03 AM	#5
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	Forgot to mention this gun is from 1963.. I don't know how many round the previous owner or owners put through it... I've put probably 10K through it with my brother putting another 3-4K through it.. The action bar notches are almost worn smooth... Last edited by .300 Weatherby Mag; April 11, 2012 at 11:35 AM.

April 11, 2012, 11:57 AM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The Browning BPS ....I think is an equivalent gun in terms of quality to the Rem 870 Wingmaster... and on my BPS 12ga Hunter model ...I started to see some wear on internal parts in the gun ( on the bolt traveler, a little bit on the action bars, etc.. about 15 yrs after I first bought that gun ....and in those days, it was my primary gun for Trap and bird hunting ...so about 15,000 shells a yr thru that gun ...so I'd call it about 225,000 shells at that point. I still have that gun ....and its not a primary clay target gun anymore ...and the wear on it has not significantly increased...in the last 15 yrs...and I'd say it has about 250,000 shells thru it now. Completely worn out as you observed...has to be at least 500,000 shells in my opinion - but who really knows...?? Wear on a pump gun ...or a semi-auto ....will always be greater than on an O/U ...where I know I have close to 250,000 shells thru some of my O/U's with very little, if any, wear on internal components. Some of my grandpa's pump guns / semi-autos ..( bought in the 1920's - 1950's ....looked heavily used / in and out of gun racks in trucks, blinds, etc....and he killed a lot of game with it ...but I don't think he ever shot more than 250 shells a yr ...thru any of those guns .....where 40 yrs of use would only make up 10,000 shells..../ but a serious clay target shooter in that same time frame of the 30's - 50's ...put a lot of shells thru their guns just like many of us do today. A gun made in 1963 ...isn't that old ... --- especially compared to old guys like Klawman and Zippy..../ but if it did see 10,000 shells a yr...( 400 boxes a yr ) ... / that's almost 500,000 ... --------------- It might cost you more to repair that gun ...than its worth ...unless it has a lot of sentimental value to you ....it might just be better to sell it off for parts to someone ...and pick up something else to shoot ( I know you have other guns ...) .. / and I don't know what the new Wingmasters cost these days ...but the Browning BPS Hunter model, 12ga or 20ga, 28" barrel and Invector Plus chokes ..sells new for around $ 550 .... even though the list for about $ 659 ( and they come in 16ga, and 28ga and .410 as well ) but so does the Rem 870 Wingmaster I presume.../ not trying to talk you out of another Wingmaster...just using BPS as an example of the same quality - in my view. http://www.browning.com/products/cat...2&tid=211&bg=x Last edited by BigJimP; April 11, 2012 at 12:04 PM.

April 12, 2012, 12:48 AM	#9
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	brother in law My brother in law shoots trap with the same 870 for yrs. And he shoots ALOT. The round count in his gun, 10 years ago, was was well over 50,000. But, it is a single load proposition, drop a shell in the port, close the action. ....bang. I have seen the action bars get warped/tweaked.

April 11, 2012, 02:34 AM	#3
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Is that what was preventing the second shell from clearing that one shell stop? You can't have more than a few thousand through it.

April 11, 2012, 07:37 AM	#4
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Something doesn't sound right here. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of rounds is more likely required to wear out the action bars. These models used to be used a ton in trap shooting with excellent results. The notches in the action bars actuate the shell stops, so if the notch location got worn it would affect the timing a little, but it would not disable the gun for a long, long time.

April 11, 2012, 04:55 PM	#7
M4BGRINGO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 256	The arms on my 870 did not wear out, but when I had problems with the action and found the arms were no longer parallel, that is when I found where the arms attach to the tube, there was a big crack. I think I spent less than $100 to buy the pieces needed to fix it, perfect once again.

April 11, 2012, 08:53 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Haven't ever seen this. And some of my 870s have seen beaucoup rounds. And my duties used to include maintaining more than 30 agency 870s. Do check the bars for straightness and being parallel. A deep clean and flushing behind the latches may also help....

April 12, 2012, 12:18 PM	#10
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	I have heard that action bars on an 870 can become tweaked if the forend isn't pulled straight back and especially if the action assembly slighly askew. If that was a problem wear marks on the magazine tube would be less than parallel to the axis of the tube.

April 12, 2012, 12:44 PM	#11
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	300-WM, my friend, things are not always as they seem. Is there the possibility that a previous owner may have "worked on" the bars? Seeing hammers with reduced sear notches is not uncommon -- some shooters try their hands at "trigger" jobs. Perhaps someone tried an "action" job on your 870. You know, remove a little metal here and remove a little there, it's got to speed things up. A lot can happen in 49-years. Of course, to those of us who are older than BigJim, a gun made in '63 is nearly new.

April 12, 2012, 12:50 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Zippy, my friend, I figured you'd catch my comment before klawman did ... but yes, a gun made in 1963 ...just doesn't seem that old anymore ...

April 12, 2012, 02:45 PM	#14
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	That leaves 35 years and how many owners to change/improve the gun.

April 12, 2012, 03:17 PM	#15
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	A buddy of mine who owned a rod and gun shop (but not a gunsmith) decided to work on the trigger of a brand new Ruger target pistol. He didn't improve the trigger. If you set the safety and pulled the trigger nothing would happen, but it would fire when you released the safety (a scary situation). He sold me the pistol for pennies on the dollar. I peened the trigger link, were he'd removed too much material, and the gun has served me faithfully ever since. A Volquartsen kit improved the trigger.

April 13, 2012, 12:27 AM	#16
340 Weatherby Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 139	When it's the only Remington Shotgun in the family that still worked, it needs to be fixed. It didn't even require custom ammunition.

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