Tale of three guns

Wild Bill Bucks · January 23, 2013, 09:57 AM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1358951974

Last night my son in law had to go see his great uncle, that was being put under Hospice Care. While he was there, the old man gave him three guns.
This particular one, was taken from a Japenese soldier in the Pacific, when he was stationed there during WWII.
This weapon killed 4 other soldiers that were with the old man, before he was killed, and the old man kept the rifle, because the 4 other soldiers were friends of his from Grade school that had all signed up together.
He told my son in law that the notches on the stock represented a kill for every notch. If that is true, I can count at least 19 notches.

Th old mans name is Jack Arvin Wisdom, and he was a Combat engineer, in the Army. He was involved in the South Pacific and was present at Omaha Beach on D Day.

Wild Bill Bucks · January 23, 2013, 10:00 AM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1358953062

This is a German rifle taken from a soldier during the Omaha Beach landing.

Wild Bill Bucks · January 23, 2013, 10:07 AM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1358953165

This is supposed to be a .32 caliber Revolver from 1832, that the old man traded a saddle for, in 1936. According to him the pistol is a Stevens .32 caliber.

My question: Is the gun authentic, and how do you load it? Would this be what was called a boot gun, during the civil war?
It looks to me like a percussion cap slot on the back of the cylinder, which makes me think it is a muzzle loader, but the piece is to old for me to try to break it down. If I broke something on it, it would be worth a lot of money, and I would feel pretty bad about that. What can you guys tell me about it.

Wild Bill Bucks · January 23, 2013, 10:09 AM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1358953622

bobn · January 23, 2013, 10:33 AM

neat family history stuff there bill. if there is no loading port on the revolver then you would have to push out the wedge, slide off the barrel then the cylinder. it might even be a rim fire. if it is a percussion a bench mounting loading tool could be constructed. after saying all that it would be best to just to leave it be.
...the jap is either a 6.5 or a 7.7. mauser more than likely 8mm. those rifles would be sturdy enough to shoot. I would just make sure the bore and chamber is clean. no wasp plugs etc. once again neat. bobn

lefteye · January 23, 2013, 06:08 PM

The rifle from the Pacific is an Arisaka Type 99 7.7 x 58 mm.

Rainbow Demon · January 23, 2013, 06:26 PM

Avoid confusing the 7.7x58 with the 7.92X57.
A gunsmith who collects Japanese rifles posted on another board of accidentally blowing up a 7.7 Jap rifle when he got a 7.92x57 cartridge mixed in with his jap ammo.
Luckily this happened when remote testing in a firing booth.
Some 7.7 chambers will accept the 7.92 (8mm) but the chamber neck is normally too tight so the neck grips the case neck hard enough to cause excessive pressures. A Jap rifle with very loose chamber might survive this sort of mix up, but I wouldn't count on it.

The German rifle looks to be a "Duffle Cut" bring back. Troops would cut trophy rifle's fore ends under the lower band so the disassembled rifle would fit in a duffle bag. They sometimes spliced the cut off piece back when they reassembled the rifle.
I'd leave the rifle as it is, unless you find the missing pieces packed away somewhere.

I've seen the type of revolver shown here in one of my old reference books, I think it is a fairly rare and possibly valuable antique from early cartridge days.

Not sure but it may be a "teat fire" that loads from the front of the cylinder. If so it should have only a small hole at the rear of the chamber where the teat holding the priming compound would fit.

Savage99 · January 23, 2013, 08:17 PM

Rainbow Demon · January 25, 2013, 06:01 PM

Near as I can tell the revolver is a Moore Teatfire. In excellent shape it would be worth as much as $800.
From the posted image it looks mechanically okay but the exterior appears badly worn.

JT-AR-MG42 · January 25, 2013, 08:37 PM

No need to worry about accidentally putting the 7.92 x 57 or 8mm Mauser in the Japanese rifle Wild Bill.

The rifle you showed in the photos is a Type 38 and is chambered in 6.5 x50 Arisaka. An 8mm will not begin to chamber in it if the rifle has not been altered since the War.
The top of the receiver below the circular chrysanthemum stamp will show three horizontal lines - three - and below them will be two curved vertical lines - eight -. And below the eight is the Japanese character for 'type'.

JT

January 23, 2013, 06:08 PM	#6
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	The rifle from the Pacific is an Arisaka Type 99 7.7 x 58 mm. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member

January 23, 2013, 10:07 AM	#3
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1358953165 This is supposed to be a .32 caliber Revolver from 1832, that the old man traded a saddle for, in 1936. According to him the pistol is a Stevens .32 caliber. My question: Is the gun authentic, and how do you load it? Would this be what was called a boot gun, during the civil war? It looks to me like a percussion cap slot on the back of the cylinder, which makes me think it is a muzzle loader, but the piece is to old for me to try to break it down. If I broke something on it, it would be worth a lot of money, and I would feel pretty bad about that. What can you guys tell me about it.

January 23, 2013, 10:33 AM	#5
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	neat family history stuff there bill. if there is no loading port on the revolver then you would have to push out the wedge, slide off the barrel then the cylinder. it might even be a rim fire. if it is a percussion a bench mounting loading tool could be constructed. after saying all that it would be best to just to leave it be. ...the jap is either a 6.5 or a 7.7. mauser more than likely 8mm. those rifles would be sturdy enough to shoot. I would just make sure the bore and chamber is clean. no wasp plugs etc. once again neat. bobn

January 23, 2013, 06:26 PM	#7
Rainbow Demon Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Posts: 397	Avoid confusing the 7.7x58 with the 7.92X57. A gunsmith who collects Japanese rifles posted on another board of accidentally blowing up a 7.7 Jap rifle when he got a 7.92x57 cartridge mixed in with his jap ammo. Luckily this happened when remote testing in a firing booth. Some 7.7 chambers will accept the 7.92 (8mm) but the chamber neck is normally too tight so the neck grips the case neck hard enough to cause excessive pressures. A Jap rifle with very loose chamber might survive this sort of mix up, but I wouldn't count on it. The German rifle looks to be a "Duffle Cut" bring back. Troops would cut trophy rifle's fore ends under the lower band so the disassembled rifle would fit in a duffle bag. They sometimes spliced the cut off piece back when they reassembled the rifle. I'd leave the rifle as it is, unless you find the missing pieces packed away somewhere. I've seen the type of revolver shown here in one of my old reference books, I think it is a fairly rare and possibly valuable antique from early cartridge days. Not sure but it may be a "teat fire" that loads from the front of the cylinder. If so it should have only a small hole at the rear of the chamber where the teat holding the priming compound would fit.

January 23, 2013, 08:17 PM	#8
Savage99 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Posts: 567

January 25, 2013, 06:01 PM	#9
Rainbow Demon Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Posts: 397	Near as I can tell the revolver is a Moore Teatfire. In excellent shape it would be worth as much as $800. From the posted image it looks mechanically okay but the exterior appears badly worn.

January 25, 2013, 08:37 PM	#10
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	No need to worry about accidentally putting the 7.92 x 57 or 8mm Mauser in the Japanese rifle Wild Bill. The rifle you showed in the photos is a Type 38 and is chambered in 6.5 x50 Arisaka. An 8mm will not begin to chamber in it if the rifle has not been altered since the War. The top of the receiver below the circular chrysanthemum stamp will show three horizontal lines - three - and below them will be two curved vertical lines - eight -. And below the eight is the Japanese character for 'type'. JT