Let's see what Midway does about this mess...

[Dan Newberry]

Midway might come through and offer me another box of bullets for my trouble, which I don't think is unreasonable to ask of them.

While bullets are of course somewhat tough, the meplats of match bullets can be damaged by hard drops and banging around. Match bullets are designed for degrees of accuracy much higher than the standard hunting bullets are--and they're not invulnerable to having their symmetry compromised by rough handling.

Next time you go to a restaurant and order up a steak and it gets dropped off the plate before it gets to you and the waitress explains that the steak was washed off well in the sink, and then re-heated...

...I'll ask you what more you'd expect than that.

Dan

[Jerry45]

I'm sure someone will have an argument for that but I sure don't want my "Match Bullets" dropped. Or my stake.

[tahunua001]

Midway might come through and offer me another box of bullets for my trouble, which I don't think is unreasonable to ask of them.

While bullets are of course somewhat tough, the meplats of match bullets can be damaged by hard drops and banging around. Match bullets are designed for degrees of accuracy much higher than the standard hunting bullets are--and they're not invulnerable to having their symmetry compromised by rough handling.

Next time you go to a restaurant and order up a steak and it gets dropped off the plate before it gets to you and the waitress explains that the steak was washed off well in the sink, and then re-heated...

...I'll ask you what more you'd expect than that.

unless you plan to actively compete with those bullets I wouldn't worry much about them. I've seen lots of people load up MKs for plinking bullets, I've also seen guns that shoot better and more consistently with game kings than match kings so obviously the super duper special care that is taken in their construction isn't that far beyond the average bullet that sierra cranks out.

as for my yummy nummy steak on the floor now you are just being facetious. there is a little bit of a difference between wanton disregard for a persons health and damaged non-consumable packaging. now if I ordered that steak from a warehouse across the country and UPS delivered it in a package punched full of wholes and full of dirt and mouse crap then yes I would be pretty much furious but I would hold UPS accountable, not the company I got it from and I certainly would not insist that the company give me free steak because of what happened after it left their care.

not to mention the fact that a closer analogy would have the steaks still in the shipping package only I'm too upset and lazy to count them and make sure that there really are missing steaks or that they are no longer consumable.

[Dan Newberry]

Unless I'm going to compete with the bullets it shouldn't worry me?

Well, now that you mention it since I'm not competing with these bullets I guess it really doesn't matter how well they shoot after all.

What the heck was I ever thinking?

[tahunua001]

mountains out of mole hills.... that's all I'm saying.

[45_auto]

^^^^ What tahunua001 says.

Count'em, if you're missing a few then tell Midway about it, let them worry about it, then call it a day.

If it still bothers you, add it to this webpage:

http://first-world-problems.com/

[jaguarxk120]

Dan I've read through your post's and no where have you stated any loss.

You have spent more time complaning about the poor shipping than it would take to make a count of the bullets you have recieved.

You ordered three (3) box's of 100 bullets, thats 300 bullets, how many bullets did you recieve.

Being a business owner you do check the quanities of materials you purchase from suppliers don't you?

How many bullets did you get in the package?????

[redrick]

I have received damaged products from them a few times ( 1 was last week ) and they have always made it right. The only time I guess that they can't get it right, is if they no longer have it in stock, like maybe with your bullets.

[Dan Newberry]

Look guys... I think you're missing the point.

If your own accuracy standards can be met by potentially damaged bullets, I'm happy for you.

If you don't fully understand what can happen to a match bullet's point due to rough handling, that may explain why you're unsure why I'm not happy.

What I have here is 128 dollars worth of bullets which may or may not be damaged. Certainly, most of them are fine. But there is a high likelihood that many are not. There is no feasible way to determine the extent (if any) each bullet may have been harmed.

It would take no small amount of pressure to burst the factory seal on a box of Sierra bullets, and any bullets which have their points pressed under that amount of weight would have a good chance of being damaged. Two of these boxes were burst open...

So just to clarify... it's not a matter of how many bullets I have here... or an issue of being "too lazy to count them" ...the issue is, Midway poorly packed these bullets, and they arrived in a mess--and may not all be fit to shoot.

Does anyone else understand this issue clearly?

Dan

[tahunua001]

the packaging being smashed is not the fault of midway. if there was enough weight to crush those boxes in a bubblewrapped package then there is not a similarly sized box in this world that would handle that much stress... you want midway to start shipping in complimentary kevlar boxes?

it's the shippers fault, not midways, no matter who is in the position to give you free stuff, that is where the blame truly lies, my friend.

[Swampman1]

Busy at doing what? Everything you look at is out of stock, what are they busy doing, it isn't shipping? They should be slow if anything.

Good point! Same can be said of all these places specializing in powders, primers and bullets, how can they possibly be justifying their salaries these last few months?

[jepp2]

What I have here is 128 dollars worth of bullets which may or may not be damaged. Certainly, most of them are fine. But there is a high likelihood that many are not. There is no feasible way to determine the extent (if any) each bullet may have been harmed.

A way to resolve this is to return the 3 boxes of bullets. They will credit you for the cost of the items and the return shipping. Just list the bullets as being received damaged (potentially). You would then be out nothing.

What I don't understand is that you have no way of knowing if the bullets are damaged, but if they sent you a free box, it would satisfy you.

[Dan Newberry]

I thought I was being reasonable asking for one box. I would need to pay shipping to send the three boxes back to them, and maybe get no bullets in return (due to availability)...

...so I was just trying to figure a way to get some sort of compensation before they had no more of these to replace mine with.

But jepp... that is a good question, and I do understand why you asked it.

Dan

[David Bachelder]

Dan

you should get what you pay for. If you paid for a dirty steak ..... you should get a dirty steak. If you paid Midway or anyone else for new bullets .... you should get new bullets, what you do with the damaged bullets is up to Midway and they have spoken.

thank you for standing up for what is yours, I'd do the same.

[Dan Newberry]

Thanks David. I appreciate your input here.

[Silver00LT]

tahunua001
the packaging being smashed is not the fault of midway. if there was enough weight to crush those boxes in a bubblewrapped package then there is not a similarly sized box in this world that would handle that much stress... you want midway to start shipping in complimentary kevlar boxes?

it's the shippers fault, not midways, no matter who is in the position to give you free stuff, that is where the blame truly lies, my friend.

Yes...yes it is the fault of MidwayUSA for lack of proper packaging.

Funny because the cheapest shipping still ships bullets in a cardboard box that is encased with so many air bubbles that the bullet box can not even budge. This is $50 bucks worth of bullets(plinking rounds).

It does not matter if UPS or USPS threw the box or handled it like eggs. It was a poor decision of MidwayUSA's shipping department and it must be handled to please the unsatisfied customer. PERIOD


And blaming USPS is quiet hilarious. Even though USPS threw my box around...guess what because the seller PACKAGED THE 2,000 BULLETS CORRECTLY I did not have a single bullet missing. And yes I counted 2,000 bullets because the box looked like it been through hell. I mean heaven forbid!

Proper PACKAGING is the problem here...NOT the shipping company.

[reynolds357]

Dan, it would tick me off as well. All I am saying is I have less trouble with midway than I have with anyone else.

[Hydrostatic Shock]

I had the EXACT same thing happen 3 years ago with a box of 180 grain 308 game kings ordered from midway.

Quite a few of the points were deformed and I told them I didn't feel comfortable shooting them through my $1500 308!

They said no problem and sent me a replacement box for free and let me keep the others. I ended up tossing the messed up ones and shooting the good ones which was about half.

Anyhow,the replacement box was shopped the same way in the same crappy envelope like you got. The second shipment survived!

[spacecoast]

Does anyone else understand this issue clearly?

Yeah, it's getting clearer and clearer.

[hooligan1]

The very fact that somebody would package three boxes of bullets in an evelope instead of a box IS the problem.
If I ordered a scope and it got to me in an envelope instead of a box I'd be beside myself, I know it's bullets and not a scope but the point being I gave through my money a company support, and through recklessness on their part I am not satisfied, and when you fellas make purchases you want your goods to show up on time and in perfect condition... Bottom line here is that Dan believes they should compensate him for poor service, ( be it boxing, or delivery) and I think he's totally right to do so, and if you dont agree then maybe next time it'll be you scratching your head and wondering why more care and responsibility was not taken in shipping any product to you...

[buck460XVR]

Next time you go to a restaurant and order up a steak and it gets dropped off the plate before it gets to you and the waitress explains that the steak was washed off well in the sink, and then re-heated...

...I'll ask you what more you'd expect than that.

Dan

I'd expect them to replace the steak dropped on the floor, but I'd think it unreasonable to expect them to replace a steak because the garnish wasn't up to snuff when the plate was placed on my table. I for one am not saying one should not get what they pay for, and I am one that patronizes merchants because of their quality of customer service. But, I also know that one must be reasonable. That includes counting and examining the condition if asked and being compensated accordingly. If you are truly in business for yourself, you know as I do that there are many folks out there that pride themselves on getting something for nuttin'. If this thread was about you immediately getting a free box of bullets because you just e-mailed Midway and CLAIMED there were bullets missing and damaged, odds are, everyone on the forum here would be contacting Midway about torn packaging and expecting a big freebie. A while back I had a box of Nosler .44 caliber bullets that had a few missing the cannelure and a few with the cannelure in the wrong spot. I contacted Nosler via e-mail with a picture included of the defective bullets. Their reply was to ship them "2 or three" of the defective bullets for them to examine. Why? I assume because they knew anyone could claim they had received defective bullets and this was their way of knowing I did not pull a pic from the internet. After about two weeks and a coupla dollars worth of shipping, I received a box of 250 as a replacement. It took them a while, and I actually had to do something other than whine to get them, but Nosler came thru. While I did make posts on several forums complimenting Nosler on their customer service, I didn't feel a need to trash them and their quality control until they had a chance to make it right. That's all I ever said in your case. Count the bullets, examine them. If you truly are the type that needs perfect match grade bullets you should easily be able to tell if they are truly "unshootable". I don't think that is an unreasonable request from Midway. Give Midway a reasonable amount of time AFTER they receive your determination and expect to get a reasonable compensation. If after that you have a problem, we all would like to know.

[Jbotto]

Dan, I stand with you on this one. You spend the resources on quality components, you expect to get quality components when they reach your door, not just quality when they leave the retailer. I think hooligan's last post is pretty much spot on too! Hopefully Midway will make it right for you. This might make me hesitant to order with Midway for something like this, but at the same time the next time you order, you might be able to call in the order and request(demand) better packaging. I know we shouldn't have to go to those means from a retailer tailored to the shooting sports, but it might help next time. Just some thoughts. If I was in your shoes, I'd be doing the same.

[Jerry45]

I'm amazed at how many here feel a company isn't responsible for the way a shipment is packaged. I'll make a wager that the same people that are saying Dan is too picky etc. would be outraged if a company shipped them an "expensive" china or Christal seating and it arrived spilled out and broken inside the packing box/crate because it wasn't packaged properly.

Explain to me why it would be OK to get upset about china or Cristal but Dan shouldn't be upset over the "EXPENSIVE" bullets that arrived spilled out and in questionable condition. You believe he needs to prove it. Would you be willing to sit down with a mike and mike every loose bullet and check the tips for nicks and dents. Would you want to sit down with a couple of hundred Cristal glasses and inspect every one for the slightest chip or crack? Or would you want the shipment replaced?

It doesn't matte if Dan is shoot out of a $5,000.00 rifle in a $1,000.00 match or hand throwing the bullets like rocks. He paid for "Match Bullets". They should arrive to him in the condition they were intended. End use is irrelevant. What he payed for IS THE RELEVANT FACTOR.

Don is not the first to complain and I believe by now Midway should have done something to insure is doesn't happen. With the number of complaints they have received about UPS I believer they should be offering alternative shipping methods. If Midway is not willing to do that and is not willing to make sure products are "well" packaged/packed" they should be willing to except the cost of replacing any damage product, even if the damage is questionable. Products they ship inadequately packed with a shipper known for rough handling should be replace. Period!

They want the damaged product back. You pay shipping and when they see it IS damaged (they can sit and count and mike and inspect if it's worth THEIR time) they should refund your shipping costs both to you and back to them. Products that get lost should be their responsibility. They should send a replacement and fight with UPS to get their money back.

[tahunua001]

I'd expect them to replace the steak dropped on the floor, but I'd think it unreasonable to expect them to replace a steak because the garnish wasn't up to snuff when the plate was placed on my table. I for one am not saying one should not get what they pay for, and I am one that patronizes merchants because of their quality of customer service. But, I also know that one must be reasonable. That includes counting and examining the condition if asked and being compensated accordingly. If you are truly in business for yourself, you know as I do that there are many folks out there that pride themselves on getting something for nuttin'. If this thread was about you immediately getting a free box of bullets because you just e-mailed Midway and CLAIMED there were bullets missing and damaged, odds are, everyone on the forum here would be contacting Midway about torn packaging and expecting a big freebie. A while back I had a box of Nosler .44 caliber bullets that had a few missing the cannelure and a few with the cannelure in the wrong spot. I contacted Nosler via e-mail with a picture included of the defective bullets. Their reply was to ship them "2 or three" of the defective bullets for them to examine. Why? I assume because they knew anyone could claim they had received defective bullets and this was their way of knowing I did not pull a pic from the internet. After about two weeks and a coupla dollars worth of shipping, I received a box of 250 as a replacement. It took them a while, and I actually had to do something other than whine to get them, but Nosler came thru. While I did make posts on several forums complimenting Nosler on their customer service, I didn't feel a need to trash them and their quality control until they had a chance to make it right. That's all I ever said in your case. Count the bullets, examine them. If you truly are the type that needs perfect match grade bullets you should easily be able to tell if they are truly "unshootable". I don't think that is an unreasonable request from Midway. Give Midway a reasonable amount of time AFTER they receive your determination and expect to get a reasonable compensation. If after that you have a problem, we all would like to know.

^^^this^^^ put me down as a plus 1.

I'm amazed at how many here feel a company isn't responsible for the way a shipment is packaged. I'll make a wager that the same people that are saying Dan is too picky etc. would be outraged if a company shipped them an "expensive" china or Christal seating and it arrived spilled out and broken inside the packing box/crate because it wasn't packaged properly.

again this is a wildly inaccurate analogy to this situation. if I order china and it is shattered I can not use that china whatsoever. as it arrived mr newberry's bullets are 100% firable. yes, it is possible that some of the tips have been flattened which would make the bullet slightly less aerodynamic and may even open up his groups by a fraction of MOA but unless those bullets saw in excess of 100FTLBs those bullets are guaranteed to fire and if they really did have that much pressure exerted on them then there is not an appropriately sized box and no amount of bubblewrap that would prevent that package from being damaged. and all of this is all theoretical in the first place because rather than count and inspect his bullets to see if they truly were damaged or not he would rather spend his time complaining about it and demanding free stuff from the retailer rather than the shipping service.

here's another question that hasn't been asked yet. did OP pay extra for special care for his package? insurance? priority care shipping? or did he pay for the absolute cheapest method with his $100+ purchase?

It doesn't matte if Dan is shoot out of a $5,000.00 rifle in a $1,000.00 match or hand throwing the bullets like rocks. He paid for "Match Bullets". They should arrive to him in the condition they were intended. End use is irrelevant. What he payed for IS THE RELEVANT FACTOR.

I also say that the OP got off rather lucky. $128 for 300ct bullets is actually a very decent price, not anywhere near what I would call expensive. if I were to go to midway right now and order 300 of my normal, not even my favorite, my average joe hunting bullets it would cost me over $200 and that's being conservative.

[Dan Newberry]

Jerry, I appreciate the encouragement.

Actually, when you go back and check the thread, there are not but a couple or three at the most who don't share my point of view... (it's just that that minority has turned out to be quite vocal)...