Hogue coming out with 12 ga. drum magazine

ModIMark0 · December 19, 2000, 04:03 PM

I recently saw in Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement (Feb. 2001) that Hogue will be offering a 10 round drum magazine for 'several popular 12 gauge pump shotguns'. It ewquires a special magazine well that appears to attach aroung the shotguns receiver and has a flapper type mag release in front of the shotgun's trigger guard. The drum and well were pictured on a Mossberg, and I would think that it could fit onto any pump gun that has an ejection port (an Ithaca 37 would eject back into the feed lips, so no luck for Ithaca owners). The well is also able to accept 5 round detachable box magazines (why not 7-10 rounders?).
I see that with a 13-14" (NFA rules apply) barrel that this would be a serious home defense or law enforcement entry weapon candidate, provided that it is durable and reliable. It is a bit chunky under the gun as well, and might interfere with cycling the action.
Does anyone have any impressions on this option for pump shotguns? I know that it is not a new idea, but it is a new item for the market, since every drum magazine has stayed as a prototype or been on an unavailable firearm (USAS-12 comes to mind, and I count that has hard to get since it is a DD).

urban assault · December 19, 2000, 06:53 PM

I think that something like what you decribed would be a very good seller(if it was available to the general public). I know that I'm interested.

michael

laissezfirearm · December 19, 2000, 11:42 PM

> The well is also able to accept 5 round detachable
> box magazines (why not 7-10 rounders?).

The spring needed to drive a ten-round mag would
put a lot of pressure on a plastic shotshell case.

(What ever happened to that Russki brass-cased
stuff I remember seeing ads for some years back?)

navaho · December 20, 2000, 12:21 AM

Did the article say if this was a LEO-only item? Or are citizens "allowed" to get them?

Dave McC · December 20, 2000, 07:59 AM

A coupla things about this....

Most but not all drums have to be wound up to work. Keeping them wound up isn't a great idea, springs "Set".

Also, being possibly the only person here that actually fired a Tommy gun and a ChiCom SMG with drums, they tend to catch on things, oft are less durable than we'd like, and weight is a big disadvantage.A 10 round drum mag would push my HD 870,sans Sidesaddle up to maybe 11 lbs.

Topping off a pump gun is simple, recharging a drum in the middle of an AS scenario is not.

Also, 7-10 round box mags would eliminate low prone as an option.

While tube mags like we have are not perfect, I see little if any improvement in drum or box mags for shotguns.

Correia · January 12, 2001, 01:23 PM

Had to resurrect this old thread. Anybody see one of these yet? I'm not to sure about the utility of such a device, but it does sound interesting to play with.

wakal · January 12, 2001, 02:58 PM

I have a Tommy with a 50-round drum, and agree that it is a pain in the butt (and the lower back) to lug around. However, it is quite entertaining to just keep shooting and shooting and shooting...

My USAS-12 has 10-round "stick" magazines, and works quite well. The trick there is a very flat and stiff mag follower, I think.

I'd love to see a 10-rounder for something else, though...

A

General Tso · January 12, 2001, 04:42 PM

I'd be curious to see how the system works. I agree that there's nothing wrong with the tube mags but a detachable is an interesting option. It gives the ability to have mags loaded with different shell types (slugs, buck etc) and choose whichever is most appropriate for the current situation. For LEO's this could carry over to mags of nonlethal rounds too.

As to the reload, yeah you can't top off a mag like you can a tube but I'd suggest a couple of things:

- 10rds of 12 gauge is a lot. For home defense and even LE use odds are you won't need to reload. If you do I suspect teh idea is to have spare mags or drums, not top off the drum itslef. these things are detachable, not fixed.

- If you're talking about doing a tactical relaod and topping off your gun then this is still no worse than having a detachable mag rifle or pistol. You can't top those off easily either.

As to the bulk factor, I dunno, I'll have to see one before I make a determination. They actually look fairly compact in the pics. Much smaller than a Thompson 50rd drum or an RPK drum. Maybe 6" diameter or so? Just a guess from the pic. Besides, if the drum is too bulky there's always the 5rd box mags available too. Either doesn't appear as if it protrudes from the weapon any further than a 30rd AR mag would from a rifle. If they did make a 7-10rd mag that might be another story though.

Eh, I don't know that'll I'll be rushing out to upgrade my tube feed guns yet but I am at least inmterested to see how these things test out, cost etc. It's probably a bit early to dismiss the idea out of hand.

**Mike Irwin** · January 13, 2001, 02:04 AM

Dave McC,

I'll see your Tommy Gun and PPsH and raise you one Finnish Suomi!

I've also fired full-auto a drum-fed (ok, so it's actually a "pan") Lewis gun, a drum-fed Soviet light machine gun, and one of those funky .22 rifles by Ilarco(?) that was out in the 1980s.

Coolest drum-fed auto gun I ever fired? An Artillery Luger. Full-auto, you say? That's what we (owner and I) said when it broke as I was firing it!

Luckily, there were only 8 rounds in the magazine at that point, so it didn't get too spectacular.

But, you're absolutely correct about the handling characteristics of drum-fed guns. I'd not be interested in a shotgun so equipped.

**4V50 Gary** · January 13, 2001, 01:33 PM

Sounds like fun, but it may be unwieldy; especially on a pump action shotgun. It would be especially good if once the drum is removed, the rounds in the magazine tube could be used. I believe the Russians are working on such a design (both tubular magazine and box magazine fed).

Benjamin · January 13, 2001, 10:58 PM

EAA has a Pump gun which feeds from a box and a tube.

There's supposed to be a switch on the side of the receiver......

Hell, they've been advertising it for at least 18 months

December 19, 2000, 06:53 PM	#2
urban assault Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2000 Location: About 30 miles from Portland, Oregon. Posts: 216	I think that something like what you decribed would be a very good seller(if it was available to the general public). I know that I'm interested. michael __________________ "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife... And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next!" - Gladiator "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." - Al Capone

January 12, 2001, 02:58 PM	#7
wakal Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2000 Location: San Angelo, Texas Posts: 317	drums I have a Tommy with a 50-round drum, and agree that it is a pain in the butt (and the lower back) to lug around. However, it is quite entertaining to just keep shooting and shooting and shooting... My USAS-12 has 10-round "stick" magazines, and works quite well. The trick there is a very flat and stiff mag follower, I think. I'd love to see a 10-rounder for something else, though... A

January 13, 2001, 01:33 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Sounds like fun, but it may be unwieldy; especially on a pump action shotgun. It would be especially good if once the drum is removed, the rounds in the magazine tube could be used. I believe the Russians are working on such a design (both tubular magazine and box magazine fed). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 13, 2001, 10:58 PM	#11
Benjamin Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 358	Not working on it...... EAA has a Pump gun which feeds from a box and a tube. There's supposed to be a switch on the side of the receiver...... Hell, they've been advertising it for at least 18 months

December 19, 2000, 04:03 PM	#1
ModIMark0 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Minneapolis,MN, U.S.A. Posts: 243	I recently saw in Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement (Feb. 2001) that Hogue will be offering a 10 round drum magazine for 'several popular 12 gauge pump shotguns'. It ewquires a special magazine well that appears to attach aroung the shotguns receiver and has a flapper type mag release in front of the shotgun's trigger guard. The drum and well were pictured on a Mossberg, and I would think that it could fit onto any pump gun that has an ejection port (an Ithaca 37 would eject back into the feed lips, so no luck for Ithaca owners). The well is also able to accept 5 round detachable box magazines (why not 7-10 rounders?). I see that with a 13-14" (NFA rules apply) barrel that this would be a serious home defense or law enforcement entry weapon candidate, provided that it is durable and reliable. It is a bit chunky under the gun as well, and might interfere with cycling the action. Does anyone have any impressions on this option for pump shotguns? I know that it is not a new idea, but it is a new item for the market, since every drum magazine has stayed as a prototype or been on an unavailable firearm (USAS-12 comes to mind, and I count that has hard to get since it is a DD).

December 19, 2000, 11:42 PM	#3
laissezfirearm Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Posts: 50	> The well is also able to accept 5 round detachable > box magazines (why not 7-10 rounders?). The spring needed to drive a ten-round mag would put a lot of pressure on a plastic shotshell case. (What ever happened to that Russki brass-cased stuff I remember seeing ads for some years back?)

December 20, 2000, 12:21 AM	#4
navaho Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2000 Posts: 117	Did the article say if this was a LEO-only item? Or are citizens "allowed" to get them?

December 20, 2000, 07:59 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	A coupla things about this.... Most but not all drums have to be wound up to work. Keeping them wound up isn't a great idea, springs "Set". Also, being possibly the only person here that actually fired a Tommy gun and a ChiCom SMG with drums, they tend to catch on things, oft are less durable than we'd like, and weight is a big disadvantage.A 10 round drum mag would push my HD 870,sans Sidesaddle up to maybe 11 lbs. Topping off a pump gun is simple, recharging a drum in the middle of an AS scenario is not. Also, 7-10 round box mags would eliminate low prone as an option. While tube mags like we have are not perfect, I see little if any improvement in drum or box mags for shotguns.

January 12, 2001, 01:23 PM	#6
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	Had to resurrect this old thread. Anybody see one of these yet? I'm not to sure about the utility of such a device, but it does sound interesting to play with.

January 12, 2001, 04:42 PM	#8
General Tso Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2000 Posts: 133	I'd be curious to see how the system works. I agree that there's nothing wrong with the tube mags but a detachable is an interesting option. It gives the ability to have mags loaded with different shell types (slugs, buck etc) and choose whichever is most appropriate for the current situation. For LEO's this could carry over to mags of nonlethal rounds too. As to the reload, yeah you can't top off a mag like you can a tube but I'd suggest a couple of things: - 10rds of 12 gauge is a lot. For home defense and even LE use odds are you won't need to reload. If you do I suspect teh idea is to have spare mags or drums, not top off the drum itslef. these things are detachable, not fixed. - If you're talking about doing a tactical relaod and topping off your gun then this is still no worse than having a detachable mag rifle or pistol. You can't top those off easily either. As to the bulk factor, I dunno, I'll have to see one before I make a determination. They actually look fairly compact in the pics. Much smaller than a Thompson 50rd drum or an RPK drum. Maybe 6" diameter or so? Just a guess from the pic. Besides, if the drum is too bulky there's always the 5rd box mags available too. Either doesn't appear as if it protrudes from the weapon any further than a 30rd AR mag would from a rifle. If they did make a 7-10rd mag that might be another story though. Eh, I don't know that'll I'll be rushing out to upgrade my tube feed guns yet but I am at least inmterested to see how these things test out, cost etc. It's probably a bit early to dismiss the idea out of hand.

January 13, 2001, 02:04 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Dave McC, I'll see your Tommy Gun and PPsH and raise you one Finnish Suomi! I've also fired full-auto a drum-fed (ok, so it's actually a "pan") Lewis gun, a drum-fed Soviet light machine gun, and one of those funky .22 rifles by Ilarco(?) that was out in the 1980s. Coolest drum-fed auto gun I ever fired? An Artillery Luger. Full-auto, you say? That's what we (owner and I) said when it broke as I was firing it! Luckily, there were only 8 rounds in the magazine at that point, so it didn't get too spectacular. But, you're absolutely correct about the handling characteristics of drum-fed guns. I'd not be interested in a shotgun so equipped.