Whats the difference?

[ninjatoth]

I've hunted 13 years now and have never shot a buck. All my deer have been does. In fact I've never even shot AT a buck. Does it bother me, not really.

I live in an area where bucks are rare,and not many people see them.Last November was my first hunt ever,I was taken out by my father in law and a big buck happened to show up and I got him.Hunting has alot to do with luck I guess too.Now to fair chase.I just completed hunter's safety and we talked about that one.Firing from a car is not fair chase,using a machine gun etc is not fair chase.The hunting laws haven't been changed in awhile,because night vision is legal here,and all kinds of scopes and guns are getting better to take them from 500 yards,which I think that the laws should be reformed.Maybe limit hunters to 4X scopes or less,I don't know.

[ninjatoth]

also,I think about other things expressed in hunter's safety class.And one of them is what aldo leopold said"ethical behavior is doing the right thing when noone is watching,and even when doing the wrong thing is legal".Now take two scenerios,one is legal,one is not:Legal-shooting as many deer as bag limit is,even if that means shooting only trophy racks in a designated penned in area for deer,even if your bag limit is 5 deer.Illegal-a starving family's father harvests a deer without a license.But which one of these scenerios is right?

[ChiefMuzz]

I live in an area where bucks are rare,and not many people see them.Last November was my first hunt ever,I was taken out by my father in law and a big buck happened to show up and I got him.Hunting has alot to do with luck I guess too.

Absolutely. Practice, preparation, and a good dose of luck are all part of the equation of a good hunt.

Congrats on the buck BTW. Any deer is a trophy if you worked hard for it.
I was lucky that when I shot my first doe my grandfather, who had just pushed out a big stand pines for me, and my father were both standing right next to me. A group of 20 deer came out in to the clearing I was watching right as him and my father were planning another push. Now that's what I call luck!

[ninjatoth]

As far as not using as many advantages. I hunt in 40 to 50% orange, more for my safety than anything. I don't use attractants as in gun season in PA you really don't need them. Over the years I've become less thrilled with shooting a animal with the typical shotgun/rifle. A couple years ago I got into muzzleloader and use a T/C 50 cal. Hawken. I love it for as much the challenge as the nostalgia of it. Just a couple weeks ago I bought a 454 revolver to use for deer and bear this year. Again for mainly the challenge. Does that mean I'm better than someone with a $1500 rifle/scope combination. Absolutely not. That's just not how I roll

I would love to get a deer revolver or muzzleloader.I shoot revolvers alot,but don't have anything over 4" or .357,I would like a 6" .44 magnum.I just shot my first muzzleloader a few days ago at a 100 yard or so range with a half load of powder,and man do those balls move!It hit in a split second with a huge puff of dirt with just a half load.I can't afford anything more than what I have now though.My brother gave me his .444 marling with a nice 40mm scope,and I had it sighted in for free with a laser at the local sports store,and I can barely afford ammo for it as it is,I can't afford another gun,so that's what i'm using this year.

[ChiefMuzz]

Black powder is alot of fun as is shooting a revolver. Save up for what you want and hunt for bargains. It may take a while, but when you get the money and find a deal it makes it all the more worthwhile. I don't have a whole lot of extra money at my disposal so I understand what you mean.

[James R. Burke]

I have never paid for a hunt, and just hunt wild deer on public land or maybe a freinds forty. We do bait, but I wish they would outlaw it. If you dont bait here you would be the only one not doing it, so in away it forces you to bait. Awhile ago a person asked if I used a in line muzzeloader, sabot, and scope. I said yes I do. I went on to say it is much better than maybe wounding a deer, but if you like total primitive muzzeloading cool have at it. He was a bow hunter. I then asked him if he used a compound, sights, trigger release etc. He said he did. I told him if you dont like the way I muzzeload I would switch if he would make a bow from a tree limb, and a piece of rope. That kind of ended the conversation. Limit a scope to 4x. Thats something to think about. What about a 2x or just open sights. It would save some money. Maybe you could get more hunting in around Alpena lots of good eating deer there.

[Uncle Buck]

I find these types of threads interesting.
I am getting to the point of not being able to walk very far (And I was hoping to run with Hogdogs and Junior if I ever make it to Florida, or at least be able to provide a first hand account of their running the hogs!) and I think in a few years I am going to be forced to hunt from a chair.
This brings up an interesting point (at least for me). I will have to cut paths through the woods (That is another way to make sure deer will come by my stand) and put up a blind somewhere along the trail.
I will probably bait (legal, so long as the bait is removed at least two weeks before the hunt) just to make sure I get a deer.
I will be using those ear protectors that are battery operated to help me hear the animal coming, but shut off when you shoot. (More technology.)
I will have to use some sort of lift device to retrieve the animal.

It seems the alternative to this is to give up a hobby/sport that I love. I do not find any sort of ethical dilemma in adopting my hunting to my capabilities. I met a man that bow hunts from a wheel chair and he has some pretty impressive pictures of the deer and rabbits he has taken.

[shortwave]

Uncle Buck, don`t give up something you dearly love to do! Some of the anti baiting, stand and blind comments are from those that haven`t been fortunate enough to become 'seasoned' yet. Hopefully they`ll know what you`re saying one day. I made a portable blind on a trailer for my dad. He hunts/sleeps() over bait. At least he`s still out there sharing time with us.

[bcarver]

as few hunters as there are I think we should support each other.
As long as the herd/population of animals is not damaged I could care less.
Now the anti hunters feel differently.
Hey Hotdog are you one of them anti-hunters?

[Swampghost]

News from my neck of the woods.
http://www.wptv.com/content/news/mar...HN1DXEu0w.cspx

Opinions?

This was the best MC Commisioners meeting that I've ever seen. Everybody from PETA, HSUS to NRA was there to discuss a ZONING change!

[hogdogs]

Hey Hotdog are you one of them anti-hunters?

Only if they are in my spot...
Brent

[Buzzcook]

Swampghost I can't really comment on the hunting camp story because I think there's probably more to the story.
A County does have the right to change zoning rules. Neighbors do have a right to complain. The various activists both for and against are just a side show.

Opening a rifle range without the proper permits was just an idiot move. Everything follows from that act.
The question of canned hunts is secondary.

[hogdogs]

SG, Excellent results! Glad they managed a "win" for the enterprise...
I may have to send a resume for the cook job!

Commissioners will continue to debate how many hunters will be allowed in such camps, and whether food service will be permitted.

so long as food is free, it is hard to regulate the situation... YEAH I knoe all about restaurant safety laws but I could cook a full meal out doors that would blow yer mind...
I also make a right decent N.O.P. (Nut On Patrol) for general security too...
Brent

[Art Eatman]

I guess I really got serious about deer hunting back around 1964. Thereabouts. I'd quit booming around the world and got back to the old home territory just outside of Austin, Texas. The old family place of a little over 200 acres.

Way too many deer on it for the carrying capacity of the land; a far cry from the darned-near-none of the WW II era. So, I did my own culling program. I'd get off work and take the jeep and a rifle and drive out somewhere in the pasture and park where I knew the deer would exit the woods. Over some three or four years I shot a bunch of does, mature spike bucks and scraggle-horned bucks. I got pretty doggoned good at cooking Bambi.

I never really thought of it as "hunting", although I'd call it that in casual conversation. To me, "real hunting" was going after a particular nice buck, although sitting in a tree stand was not particularly different than playing Sneaky Snake. Or, what I call "walking hunting", easing along in the more open areas to see who's not paying close-enough attention. It helps if you learn how to use the wind and how to walk quietly and smoothly without making jerky motions or marching like you think you're some sort of soldier. All that's a lot easier if you start out when you're just big enough to tote a .22 rifle, of course.

Lease hunting on Texas ranches is the most common system, given that there is relatively little public land here. Texas joined the Union as a sovereign entity in its own right, and owned all the state lands not yet occupied by the individual citizens. Well, seems fair to me for a rancher to charge money to let me trespass in his yard--yeah, big yard.

Technology? There's "need" and then there is "want". I figure I "need" my rifle and my knife. "Want" is all that other stuff that folks worry about. I'll water up before I leave camp, and eat and drink when I get back. Okay, some toilet paper to mark where Bambi's waiting for me to come back with the jeep and haul him the two or five miles to camp, depending on how the day went. (Best to shoot 'em near the jeep trail, I've found.)

So I dunno. If Bambi didn't stick his stupid head up at the wrong time, I probably wouldn't break his fool neck for him.

If I'm gonna sit, what's the difference between sitting on the ground all leaned up against a rock or tree, and sitting in a tree stand? Or sitting in the jeep? Sittin's sittin'. I can drift off to snoozeland most any old where--and it's amazing how many times I came awake and saw Ol' Bucky wandering along.

Sneaky-snaking and walking-hunting was a lot of fun for a lot of years, but my ancient back is putting "paid" to that sort of fun, not to mention other funsies. Guess what? That problem's gonna come up for everybody who has ever hunted in any way, shape or fashion. Everybody reading this is gonna get there, some day.

[ZeroJunk]

Wandering off I know, but back in 2000 I was bowhunting in the Bob Marshall and noticed tha I was having trouble getting around where I had been like a billy goat years before. The next year I went to the hospital and had a 95% blockage in a heart artery. Luckily it was not a lot of deposits just a piece of plaque that had broken off, but it would have killed me just the same. Thank heavan for stints.

So, I lost 40 pounds and I have walked three miles most every day since 2001. I can hunt the Rockies now as easy now, maybe even better, than when I was 40. A lot of my motivation other than just not wanting to die is hunting the mountains.

Stay in shape as long as you can. If you are overweight get rid of it, no good will come of it.


However, I still like to put a climbing stand in a good spot just to while away the time and see what comes by.

If you do it a while you will see alot of stuff, not just game, that you missed when you thought you were sneaking around.

[Edward429451]

What an interesting thread. I have very loosely defined fair chase definitions, nothing radical. I wont bait, I think using scopes is cheating (loosely!), Quad runners no good, horses ehh yes, cheaters because I don't have them and it sucks when they amble by where it'll take me hours to get to! Never paid for a canned hunt, never had a guide, never slept in a huntin lodge. It's tents and sleeping bags and guns and iron sights for me. I walk hunt and sit hunt depending on how tired I am.

Those guys with the ultra mags and super scopes who take their animals at 600 or 800 yards...Oh they cheat hard! That's not huntin', it's ambushin' em. I say this because I can't shoot that far!

I can't even bring myself to shoot coyotes anymore. What's the point if I can't eat it? To save you the near landowner's chickens or such? Fine, invite me over for a cup o joe and then I can see why and will but until then...nah.

All my rules subject to change depending on how hungry we are, and prevailing socioeconomic conditions...I'd rather poach a deer than rob a liquor store!

[hogdogs]

Ed,

All my rules subject to change depending on how hungry we are, and prevailing socioeconomic conditions...I'd rather poach a deer than rob a liquor store!

AMEN!!!

I can't even bring myself to shoot coyotes anymore. What's the point if I can't eat it? To save you the near landowner's chickens or such? Fine, invite me over for a cup o joe and then I can see why and will but until then...nah.

well yer invited to come over for a "cup o joe" or a shot of unaged corn liquor if you prefer...
But I feel the reason we hunters and outdoors man should shoot the 'yotes any time opportunity presents is strictly ecological in nature... They have no other real predatory threats other than us and their population is steadily growing while they continue to heavily burden the population of many of our preferred game critters. They are indiscriminate killers of the young of deer, rabbits, turkey, quail and many others. By indiscriminate I mean many humans cull what they consider the weaker genetics of a specie. The 'yotes are killing the best of genetics as well as all others. The term "the strong survive" isn't aimed at the very young for the most part as parenting usually protects all until they are on their own. Thus, I want a very limited active 'yote population. As well as the aforementioned predation of our domestic stocks.

I say this because I can't shoot that far!

All my rules subject to change depending on...

Same here, bud, SAME HERE
Brent

[infntryblu]

I'm 65. After 17 yrs in the infantry and 25 in the Army I can't get around like I used to. Call my paid for buffalo hunt canned, but my first time out I had 16 square miles to hunt. When I finally found the herd, I had to HUNT to get in for a good clean shot with a 44 Automag. It took me a whole day. Baiting is not hunting, even if others do it. Neither is a tree stand. Hunting is more than the shot or the game. Its scouting the animal's habitat, It's finding the animal, then working your way in to get a proper shot. If you don't do these things you're not HUNTING. You might as well go down the street and shoot your neighbors dog, or a stray cat in your yard. I'd like to go hunt wild buffalo but I can't physically handle the effort it takes. Horses would be ok, but I don't ride any animal that can **** when it's at a full gallop. Hunting is as you perceive it. I was just brought up on a different set of standards. Want a more enjoyable time hunting, try my method. When you bag the game you'll have a whole different perspective and feeling of accomplishment that you have matched wits with your quarry.

[ZeroJunk]

I've been within 10 yards of an elk, 30 yards of a grizzly, 20 yards of a black bear, a few feet of a deer, 40 yards of a moose.( on the ground by the way) Of course, some years I might hunt 60 days or better.

If I want to spend some of that time lounging around in a tree stand, good for me.

Go in to some crowded eastern gameland and have everybody sneaking around like they think they are an indian. See how that works out.

[taz1]

hunting is ----- looking for.

when i hunt food to feed my family im gonna take that animal any way i can peroid.

when i hunt game for pleasure i like to get real close/ try my stealth agenst his instincts.

when i hunt tracks to hone my skill i like to use use a camera.


true fair chase dosent exist--its predator prey --- smarter wins.

ethics in the animal world---babies= helpless= first eaten.
old - injured= weak= second eaten
mature= 50/50 chance =last option
humans in the animal world in true fair chase ( what god gave us )= extinct.

[Art Eatman]

Some folks fuss against a man-made stand. Other than comfort, how is that different from sitting in a tree or on a hillside so you can look down into the brush? How is the style different from that of a cougar?

Baiting? Get out your little highway map. US 90 in Texas. Say, from around Del Rio to San Antonio. Okay, everything south of that on down to Mexico: It's gently-rolling to flat, and the unfarmed areas are brush. The "Brasada". Catclaw, mesquite, prickly pear and blackthorn. The only way to move through that mess is on cattle trails or man-made trails, the senderos. The only way you'll ever see a deer is near bait, from a high stand.

Sure, some of us are skilled in sneaky-snaking and all that. So? In today's society, not all that many have the access to the learning that's gone into that skill. City folks with office jobs, for instance, and city folks in general.

I was danged good at driving a 200 mph race car, but I don't put down folks who drive slow at 80 on an Interstate, just because they don't know how to deal with high-speed corners. Snobbism ain't real neat, you get right down to it.

[snipecatcher]

Some folks fuss against a man-made stand. Other than comfort, how is that different from sitting in a tree or on a hillside so you can look down into the brush? How is the style different from that of a cougar?

Baiting? Get out your little highway map. US 90 in Texas. Say, from around Del Rio to San Antonio. Okay, everything south of that on down to Mexico: It's gently-rolling to flat, and the unfarmed areas are brush. The "Brasada". Catclaw, mesquite, prickly pear and blackthorn. The only way to move through that mess is on cattle trails or man-made trails, the senderos. The only way you'll ever see a deer is near bait, from a high stand.

Agreed. Some land is conducive to walk hunting, but in many areas of Texas, it is nearly impossible. Everything in South Texas sticks, pricks, or bites. Then again, I've hunted land in Matagorda County, on the middle coast, that was old growth oaks on a riverbottom. Perfect for walk hunting. Our current 70 acres in Lampasas county is not good walk hunting land. Too many cacti, and the cedars are so thick you can hardly walk through them unless you are on a trail. Thus we hunt from stands.