Herters brass discovery.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · May 24, 2013, 05:42 AM

You know how it goes fellows you dig thru your stash of "This and That stuff" looking for something. And end up having something else catch you eye. Well that's exactly what happen here yesterday. I found some 300 Savage brass. Nice new brass I didn't know I had squirreled away. Headstamp said Herters about 100 ct. But it's the most unusual brass I ever encountered. It kind of reminds me of copper or red brass maybe.

1. Anyone here know why Herters brass was intentionally made different than everyone else's brass seen in the market place?

2. I'm sure Herters never made their own brass. Do you know who made it for them?

3. Just how good was Herters brass for reloading? (any problems or draw backs in its use)

Thanks guys for your input.

TATER · May 24, 2013, 09:47 AM

SureShot,
How old do you think this stash could be?

tahunua001 · May 24, 2013, 10:00 AM

as far as I knew herters was all steel cased, it's another of those ulanovsk name brands so everything I've seen's been about the same quality as wolf, tula, and bear.

TATER · May 24, 2013, 11:16 AM

tahunua001,
Herters is a Very old name and was quality Stuff..some of their brass and bullet was produced by Norma back in the day….
I am not sure when they went under But, I have not seen any that was newer than the 70's??? This new stuff is all over the place (manufacturing)
From CCI to Tula and wolf I think.

F. Guffey · May 24, 2013, 11:22 AM

I have a lot of Herters equipment and some components, there was never anything suspect about Herters, I have various cases that I have accumulated over the years that have an off brass color, I have cleaned cases that had a petena that required cleaning, I choose vinegar for reducing tumbling by as much as 3 days, cleaning in vinegar can change the color if the case is left in the vinegar too long. The off color brass does not have the pink.orange color of having been cleaned in vinegar.

I have enough cases with common head stamps to provide me with the luxury of collecting off, unusual or rare head stamps, the new/old stock Herters would fall into the category of safe to shoot and collectable, I would choose to shoot something else and save the Herters cases.

Other head stamps I have and do not shoot, Browning, S&W, BM and Peters.

F. Guffey

chiefr · May 24, 2013, 11:29 AM

Concur with Tater.
Shades of 50s & 60s, Most of Herters brass was made by Norma.

**Unclenick** · May 24, 2013, 11:38 AM

Sureshot,

Any time you run into copper-colored brass, check to be sure a magnet will not attract it. If it does, it is a copper washed steel and is not reloadable without stressing your die and equipment. If it does not attract the the magnet the brass may have been exposed to something corrosive at some point and I would polish it and shoot it loaded light to begin with. AFAIK, anything maed by Norma should be brass colored, except you may have some redness at the shoulder and neck where the annealing stain was polished, in which case you can ignore it.

WIL TERRY · May 24, 2013, 12:31 PM

ACTUALLY, most of it was NOT made by NORMA, it was made in Finland by SUENSHAMETALVERKEN[SP] and SAKO.
It was of superb quality and I used it in at least fifteen calibers including the pistol brass, a bunch of which is still in use by me as we speak in 32S&WLONG, 38SPL, 357MAG, 6MM REM, and 264WINMAG.

TATER · May 24, 2013, 01:06 PM

Unclenick, Did anyone other than China do Copper-wash?

Will Terry, I knew It was top shelf, from Sweden to Finland..My Bad.

tahunua001 · May 24, 2013, 02:58 PM

my bulgarian 7.62x54R is copper washed.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · May 24, 2013, 05:05 PM

TATER asked: How long ago did I stash this brass.
I remember buying them from a reloaders shop here in Hopkins MN. I as I recall at that time the owner was selling them off in bulk purchases. (What ever count you wanted.) Herters, Sporting Goods of Waseca MN was still in business I believe. What? Early 70s maybe Tater.___ For fun today I thru a couple cases in the shell cleaner earlier. Just took them out before sitting down here. Remarkable the color they have after a corn cob bath>They sure are pretty

Quote:

unusual or rare head stamps, the new/old stock Herters would fall into the category of safe to shoot and collectable, I would choose to shoot something else and save the Herters cases.

I think your right F. Guffey maybe its best to save them after all. Who knows. Perhaps their next owner can dig them out of his stash 40 years later and wonder about them as I did these last two days.

Thank you, WIL TERRY for clearing that little matter up of (Who actually made them.)

S/S

math teacher · May 24, 2013, 09:59 PM

I have experienced Herters brass with undersized flash holes. The decapping pin would stick or bend when resizing. I ground down the end of a large nail to make a punch to deprime the cases then drilled out the flash hole to standard size. End of problem. The cases were brass and of otherwise excellent quality.

steveno · May 25, 2013, 01:53 AM

I think people are confusing the Herter's brand ammo that is around these days with the Herter's brand name of many , many years ago. the old cases it would not be steel and for reloading it should be good to go. the only thing similar is the name.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · May 25, 2013, 08:28 AM

steveno: I've notice the same. The boxes sold today are a 100% example of Herters original logo seen 30 plus years ago before their closing. Good of you to chime in steveno about this Herters logo imposter.
Anyone know who it is?

Uncle Nick: I have a stick magnet I use out in the garage for lost nuts & bolts in under the hood situations. {strong magnetic tip on it.} Ran that magnet up against one of those shells I polish yesterday. No way did it stick to the Herters cartridge case. As far as annealing goes. That's a step I don't think has ever been preformed on this brass. (no color change is seen from its shoulder on up thru its neck)

S/S

Paul B. · May 25, 2013, 01:15 PM

I have 5 full boxes of unfired Herter's 7x57 brass. The boxes are marked, "Made in Sweden". Norma? I dunno. I always at least run a a flash hole reamer in any new brass and the flash holes were much tighter than normal. The boxes sure are pretty.

I have a decent amount of Winchester and Remington new brass so I won't be loading those Herter's shells anytime soon. At the time I got them, I asked that very same question about who knows who made that brass. The concensus of opinion was that even though it was made in Sweden, they weren't made by Norma.

Herters quit selling ammo, powder component and almost everything else related to shooting and firearms thnks to that 1968 gun control unconsitutional abortion they called a law.

Paul B.

pic1083 · May 25, 2013, 01:23 PM

The last catalog I had for Herters was 1979, I tried to order some stuff in
mid 1980 and got my order returned by the USPS.
Someone ended up with the Herters name and that is what you see
on the shelves today.
Not the same Company by far.

steveno · May 25, 2013, 01:41 PM

I could be wrong but I was thinking that the Herter's brand is now owned by Cabela's. the last order I with the original Herter's was back in the middle 1960's before I went into the air force. I don't remember when they closed their doors. Herter's made some pretty outstanding claims about their stuff but it was usually pretty good at a decent price even back then. I sure wish I had kept their catalog as it was some pretty good reading and now if in pretty good condition is worth some money to collectors.

**Unclenick** · May 27, 2013, 08:36 AM

Paul B,

If you look at the Lapua design for 6 mm BR brass, they use a smaller 1.5 mm (0.059") flash hole than the usual 0.070"-0.090". This is for the same reason their Palma Match .308 brass uses small rifle primers. Restricting primer gas flow rate and flame throw reduces variation in powder ignition. This allows the shooter to better control the pressure profile by controlling powder charge. So widening narrow flash holes is not automatically a good idea. If you still have some of the tight hole cases, you might try working a comparison load up with them.

snuffy · May 27, 2013, 10:38 AM

Well, here's another fly in the ointment. I bought some 8mm Mauser cases from Herters, the box they came in said made in MEXICO! They were crude to the extreme, but loaded okay and shot marginally. I still have a few of them, they failed early, seemed the annealing step was skipped. Cracked on the second loading.

Yes, Cabellas has the trademark name for herters ammo and other sporting related stuff.

arizona98tj · May 27, 2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Good of you to chime in steveno about this Herters logo imposter.

Yep, no one has ever sold a registered trademark to another company.

May 24, 2013, 05:42 AM	#1
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Herters brass discovery. You know how it goes fellows you dig thru your stash of "This and That stuff" looking for something. And end up having something else catch you eye. Well that's exactly what happen here yesterday. I found some 300 Savage brass. Nice new brass I didn't know I had squirreled away. Headstamp said Herters about 100 ct. But it's the most unusual brass I ever encountered. It kind of reminds me of copper or red brass maybe. 1. Anyone here know why Herters brass was intentionally made different than everyone else's brass seen in the market place? 2. I'm sure Herters never made their own brass. Do you know who made it for them? 3. Just how good was Herters brass for reloading? (any problems or draw backs in its use) Thanks guys for your input.

May 24, 2013, 10:00 AM	#3
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	as far as I knew herters was all steel cased, it's another of those ulanovsk name brands so everything I've seen's been about the same quality as wolf, tula, and bear. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

May 24, 2013, 11:22 AM	#5
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have a lot of Herters equipment and some components, there was never anything suspect about Herters, I have various cases that I have accumulated over the years that have an off brass color, I have cleaned cases that had a petena that required cleaning, I choose vinegar for reducing tumbling by as much as 3 days, cleaning in vinegar can change the color if the case is left in the vinegar too long. The off color brass does not have the pink.orange color of having been cleaned in vinegar. I have enough cases with common head stamps to provide me with the luxury of collecting off, unusual or rare head stamps, the new/old stock Herters would fall into the category of safe to shoot and collectable, I would choose to shoot something else and save the Herters cases. Other head stamps I have and do not shoot, Browning, S&W, BM and Peters. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; May 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM. Reason: change leaning to cleaning

May 24, 2013, 11:38 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Sureshot, Any time you run into copper-colored brass, check to be sure a magnet will not attract it. If it does, it is a copper washed steel and is not reloadable without stressing your die and equipment. If it does not attract the the magnet the brass may have been exposed to something corrosive at some point and I would polish it and shoot it loaded light to begin with. AFAIK, anything maed by Norma should be brass colored, except you may have some redness at the shoulder and neck where the annealing stain was polished, in which case you can ignore it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 24, 2013, 02:58 PM	#10
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	my bulgarian 7.62x54R is copper washed. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

May 24, 2013, 09:47 AM	#2
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	SureShot, How old do you think this stash could be?

May 24, 2013, 11:16 AM	#4
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	tahunua001, Herters is a Very old name and was quality Stuff..some of their brass and bullet was produced by Norma back in the day…. I am not sure when they went under But, I have not seen any that was newer than the 70's??? This new stuff is all over the place (manufacturing) From CCI to Tula and wolf I think.

May 24, 2013, 11:29 AM	#6
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Concur with Tater. Shades of 50s & 60s, Most of Herters brass was made by Norma.

May 24, 2013, 12:31 PM	#8
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	ACTUALLY, most of it was NOT made by NORMA, it was made in Finland by SUENSHAMETALVERKEN[SP] and SAKO. It was of superb quality and I used it in at least fifteen calibers including the pistol brass, a bunch of which is still in use by me as we speak in 32S&WLONG, 38SPL, 357MAG, 6MM REM, and 264WINMAG.

May 24, 2013, 01:06 PM	#9
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Unclenick, Did anyone other than China do Copper-wash? Will Terry, I knew It was top shelf, from Sweden to Finland..My Bad.

May 24, 2013, 09:59 PM	#12
math teacher Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2012 Location: Southwest WA Coast Posts: 558	I have experienced Herters brass with undersized flash holes. The decapping pin would stick or bend when resizing. I ground down the end of a large nail to make a punch to deprime the cases then drilled out the flash hole to standard size. End of problem. The cases were brass and of otherwise excellent quality.

May 25, 2013, 01:53 AM	#13
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I think people are confusing the Herter's brand ammo that is around these days with the Herter's brand name of many , many years ago. the old cases it would not be steel and for reloading it should be good to go. the only thing similar is the name.

May 25, 2013, 08:28 AM	#14
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	steveno: I've notice the same. The boxes sold today are a 100% example of Herters original logo seen 30 plus years ago before their closing. Good of you to chime in steveno about this Herters logo imposter. Anyone know who it is? Uncle Nick: I have a stick magnet I use out in the garage for lost nuts & bolts in under the hood situations. {strong magnetic tip on it.} Ran that magnet up against one of those shells I polish yesterday. No way did it stick to the Herters cartridge case. As far as annealing goes. That's a step I don't think has ever been preformed on this brass. (no color change is seen from its shoulder on up thru its neck) S/S

May 25, 2013, 01:15 PM	#15
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	I have 5 full boxes of unfired Herter's 7x57 brass. The boxes are marked, "Made in Sweden". Norma? I dunno. I always at least run a a flash hole reamer in any new brass and the flash holes were much tighter than normal. The boxes sure are pretty. I have a decent amount of Winchester and Remington new brass so I won't be loading those Herter's shells anytime soon. At the time I got them, I asked that very same question about who knows who made that brass. The concensus of opinion was that even though it was made in Sweden, they weren't made by Norma. Herters quit selling ammo, powder component and almost everything else related to shooting and firearms thnks to that 1968 gun control unconsitutional abortion they called a law. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

May 25, 2013, 01:23 PM	#16
pic1083 Junior Member Join Date: March 26, 2012 Posts: 9	The last catalog I had for Herters was 1979, I tried to order some stuff in mid 1980 and got my order returned by the USPS. Someone ended up with the Herters name and that is what you see on the shelves today. Not the same Company by far.

May 25, 2013, 01:41 PM	#17
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I could be wrong but I was thinking that the Herter's brand is now owned by Cabela's. the last order I with the original Herter's was back in the middle 1960's before I went into the air force. I don't remember when they closed their doors. Herter's made some pretty outstanding claims about their stuff but it was usually pretty good at a decent price even back then. I sure wish I had kept their catalog as it was some pretty good reading and now if in pretty good condition is worth some money to collectors.

May 27, 2013, 08:36 AM	#18
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Paul B, If you look at the Lapua design for 6 mm BR brass, they use a smaller 1.5 mm (0.059") flash hole than the usual 0.070"-0.090". This is for the same reason their Palma Match .308 brass uses small rifle primers. Restricting primer gas flow rate and flame throw reduces variation in powder ignition. This allows the shooter to better control the pressure profile by controlling powder charge. So widening narrow flash holes is not automatically a good idea. If you still have some of the tight hole cases, you might try working a comparison load up with them. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 27, 2013, 10:38 AM	#19
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Well, here's another fly in the ointment. I bought some 8mm Mauser cases from Herters, the box they came in said made in MEXICO! They were crude to the extreme, but loaded okay and shot marginally. I still have a few of them, they failed early, seemed the annealing step was skipped. Cracked on the second loading. Yes, Cabellas has the trademark name for herters ammo and other sporting related stuff. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?