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Old November 19, 2013, 04:15 AM   #1
kawasakifreak77
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300blk, bolt gun, fast powder & heavy bullet think tank.

Okay.

I've lurked around several sites trying to find loading info on 300blk subs using fast pistol powders to no avail since most blk info revolves around making a AR15 cycle. If one could make good consistant ammunition with a fast powder, it'd reduce the noise of the shot & make a suppressor even more effective. What few theads I could find regarding subs & fast powders for bolt rifles either ended with no answers or said that AA1680 ended up being more accurate. I'm curious at this point.

So I've been tinkering & here's what I've found so far.

For cheap shooting I got 500 of the MBC 245 grain cast lead bullets. Long story short, they don't feed worth a rip, they lead the first 6" or so of the barrel & worst of all I can't get them to group consistantly. All over the place at 100 yards would be putting it politely.

I was loading them over various charges (5-6 grains) of Hercules red dot & unique. The only good thing about these is they were laughably quiet. Literally like shooting a .22.

I tried Winchester 296 next since in my super loads the stuff was very consistant & clean to boot. At 10 grains the speed might have been a bit fast as I heard some sort of noise, not like a super sonic crack, but it wasn't the report of the rifle either. Bad thing was, those were just as loud if not louder than factory (the hornady 208) subs. Accuracy, if you could call it that, slightly improved, as did cleanliness.

Any advice on loading heavy lead subs in a rifle? I'm new to this arena & am getting tired of slinging lead down range.

I eliminated myself & the rifle that same day as I shot a group with the Hornady 208s & the resulting group was 1 & 3/4". Respectable I feel as I'm not the best trigger puller, by far.

Rifle is a AAC Micro 7 by the way, fitted with iron sights.

First off these SMKs feed just as fast as I can jack the bolt. Nice as I was getting tired of the MBCs going sideways all the time.

SMKs loaded over 10 grains of 296 was still a bit fast by the ear. Loud but very clean, as I was suspecting. Accuracy wasn't stellar but five shots went into 4 & 1/2" at 100 yards.

Now I'm getting somewhere. Nothing impressive, but it's an improvement.

At a local gun show I picked up some ammo, some 190 grain Hornady & 200 grain Sierras they guy tells me.

The 190s were loud as crap & easily super sonic. Five shots at 100 made a 4 & 1/2" group & left a little powder residue in the barrel that easily came out with a couple pulls of a bore snake.

The 200s were loud also, I didn't heat a distinct sonic crack but once again heard some sort of noise other than the report. Accuracy & cleamliness were similar to the 190s.

The guy at the show said the ammo was by an old guy in Florida that goes by 'Aardvark'. Sound fimiliar to anyone?

Today, I feel like I made a little headway. I loaded up a box of 240 SMKs over 6 grains of bullseye after reviewing my notes & thinking about what little I know of making popcorn fart loads in larger capacity 30 caliber rifles.

These things are silly quiet! After five shots I couldn't see any residue in the bore eyeballing it & of course with the SMKs they fed perfectly.

Accuracy was a 4" group. Still not good but I'm hoping with the pending discussion here I'll learn how to make these a sub 2" group load.

Here's what I'm considering to change, in order to make a more consistant load.

1st. Change to factory cases. I have some factory Remington & Hornady brass I've been saving. Reason being I've read that annealing converted cases (mine are all LC '12) improves accuracy, which I have not done to mine.

2nd. Up the bullseye charge a wee bit until I get bullet noise & back down another say .02 grain. At the same time I'd like to revisit red dot as it's bulkier to get load density up.

3rd. Change powder measures. I'm currently using a Lyman 55. I have a Lee perfect & as rinky dink as it seems built, from what I can tell it drops very consistantly. I built my supers with this dropper & in short time had a very good load duplicating the Remington premier match using the 125SMKs & 296.

4th possibly? Crimp. Reading says that crimping degrades accuracy. However, after building a proven load, I took crimping out of the equation & the result was ridiculous vertical stringing.

That points to neck tension correct? Being mostly a straight walled hangun reloader (mostly hot .357 mag & .45 acp) it seems natural to crimp. Am I missing something here? My dies are Hornadys, I've heard a lot of buzz about the Lee finish crimp die. Good? Bad or indifferent?

That's all about all I can think of for now. I like trying things outside the box so help me chase this rabbit down a hole if you will.

End goal here is a clean shooting, bolt gun specific sub load that is just as accurate (consistant) or better than factory subs with a fast pistol powder to reduce sound signature with or without a suppressor fitted. If all efforts result in an inaccurate load, I'll probably dump it for this AA1680 I keep hearing about. However I see some promise here & want as many minds on the subject as possible.

Looking forward to an informative disscussion.

-Ray.
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Old November 19, 2013, 04:29 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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You should try IMR Trail Boss.
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Old November 19, 2013, 07:16 PM   #3
Whisper 300
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Kawasaki-
I have been shooting heavy subsonic 300 Whisper for the past 5 or 6 years.

Mine is a custom bolt gun with a Gemtech can.

I found that the 1:8 twist is needed for slow long bullets- you might stabilize them by pushing them faster but that kind of negates what the suppressor is for in that I want quiet not the sonic crack.

That said, my go to load it 240 SMK and a similarly heavy specialty bullet (Outlaw States Subsonic) is 8.9 gr. H110 or 8.55 gr. Lil Gun (also subsonic with another specialty bullet from Lehigh Bullets. Both loadings very quiet and can/will group 1" at 100yards.

I use these specialty bullets for deer control--my shots are never over 100 yards and quite effective. As you stretch out the distance they rainbow and I don't need to or want to laser each shot to get a kill shot on the deer so I limit the distance at which I will take the shot.

Feel free to either PM me or reply here and I will try to help.

Gary
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Old November 19, 2013, 07:24 PM   #4
Whisper 300
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Found this on another site-



http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammuni...onic-load.html

NIce chart about 3 or 4 posts in

Hope this is not against forum rules if so, moderator please delete with my apologies.

Gary
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Old November 19, 2013, 07:27 PM   #5
Whisper 300
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PS---

Sierra notes that the 240 needs a minimum twist of 1:9 and I would agree esp. with a supersonic load.

Since I have a 1:8 and it works well with the heavies at low speeds I would have to agree.

Gary
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Old November 20, 2013, 02:50 AM   #6
kawasakifreak77
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Robot phone had a brain fart.
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Last edited by kawasakifreak77; November 20, 2013 at 03:21 AM.
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Old November 20, 2013, 03:08 AM   #7
kawasakifreak77
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Thanks Gary. I had found that chart once upon a time & since lost it.

Bad thing is I'm wanting to work with powders faster than the ones listed.

Good news is, according to that chart, my 10gr load of 296 with the 240s should have been just about right. Too bad they're so stinkin' loud. I'm guessing that chart was for a 16" gas gun? A bolt rifle would gain a few fps & a suppressor I've read will gain a few more. That would make a sonic crack I think.

My rifle is supposed to have a 1-7" twist barrel.

I got a box of 220 SMKs in today & I'm going to use them primarily as I only have a few 240s & have yet to find another source.

I loaded them over the same powder charge. 6.0 grains of bullseye. Since I have so many 220s now, I be doing more 'extensive' testing.

Side note: met a guy at the LGS today that might trade some of my left over bullets for an extra chrony he has. Man if I get a chrony this will be so much easier!

Until next time.
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Old November 20, 2013, 06:30 PM   #8
rg1
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Just saw a post today that Hodgdon has added some more bullets and some powder loads to their on-line web site.
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Old November 21, 2013, 08:31 PM   #9
kawasakifreak77
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Duely noted.

Making some progress!

The 220 SMKs over 6.0 gr bullseye is still easily subsonic & I shot a 3 & 1/8" group from them. Someone came up to me on the range & asked me what kind of .22 I was shooting.

I did me up another box at 6.5 gr, as they're shooting a few inches lower than the factory subs.

Until next time.
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Old November 22, 2013, 06:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Rifle is a AAC Micro 7 by the way, fitted with iron sights.


Put a scope on your rifle, your groups are good with iron sights,they will be better with a scope and shot off a bag.
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Old November 23, 2013, 08:33 PM   #11
kawasakifreak77
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longranger: I really don't want a scope on this rifle, being so light & short I think it would ruin the carry-ability of it. It's literally like a .22 that shoots 200+ gr bullets.

Not saying that's poor advice at all. Even though my groups might tighten up with glass, the slight increase in accuracy wouldn't be worth it for what I want this rifle to do.

The bad thing about me & shooting glass is I shake too much. Between smoking, coffee, booze & about every other poison you could think of once upon a time my shooting is not nearly what it was when I was a boy. When I'm looking through glass now, everything is moving. When I'm shooting irons everything is nice & still.

My other problem is I've never been a 'paper' shooter. I've always shot okay but placing one bullet next to the other one has always been a struggle for me.

For example, I can pick off those mini (about 2"?) clay pigeons shot for shot, laying prone & using my sling. This rifle just works really well for me. At this point I just need more practice on my consistancy.

My best group to date, with anything that had glass on it was right at 1 & 1/2". That was with a 1903 Springfield.

My best group to date with irons was 1 & 5/8". That was with my box stock old Winchester .22 single shot.

Knowing that, I've never saw much point in glass.

Anyways.

The 6.5gr load of bullseye worked just as good as the 6.0 & are still sub sonic. I seated the bullets out a bit more (coal 2.250") but didn't tighten my group since the bench was covered in ice & my eyes kept watering up.

Good news is the impact raised right up to the zero of the factory Hornadys so I think I'm getting real close to the velocity I need.

I'm going to keep this load right where it is only working on consistancy, both reloading & shooting until I get a chrony. I think I've done evrrything I can with the equipment I have.

Until next time!
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