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Old July 4, 2018, 06:25 AM   #26
Bill DeShivs
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Right- If she's going to purse carry, why not just go with a S&W 500 magnum?
We are talking about pocket guns here-no pistol is a death ray without a CNS shot.

If she uses the Keltec belt clip- the gun can be totally concealed in the waist band. You can't do that with any other .32.

I have a Tomcat, too. It's a nice gun. As a matter of fact-I have dozens and dozens of nice guns to choose from. I carry a Keltec P32.
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Old July 4, 2018, 07:48 AM   #27
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I also carry the North American Arms Guardian daily in my front pocket and while it is heavier it is also a solid gun that I have had no problems with. My current place of employment is very anti gun (training center) and would -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-/fire me if they found me with one, so deep cover is the only option. A p32 with a belt clip may be a better option depending on her method of carry but it will depend on how well she can operate and shoot the 32/380 sized guns. I would gather up a few mouse/pocket guns and go shooting to see what she likes and what she does not. It will need to be something she is comfortable shooting and operating. If your not aware the Tomcats had a problem with frame cracks so just be sure to read up on this problem, not sure if they ever fixed it or not? Good luck with your search.
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Old July 4, 2018, 08:15 AM   #28
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I think she should go to a range where these things are rentable and try them. Fit, feel, recoil. If she doesn't like it or have confidence in it, she won't carry it.
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Old July 4, 2018, 08:25 AM   #29
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Yup. What Gary said
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Old July 4, 2018, 09:11 AM   #30
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I'm just curious and not trying to start a debate .. . but if she can handle a 9mm, why a 32 for the purse -other than size? As someone suggested, have her take a look at the Rem380 or a Bersa 380 CC - both have good reports of being reliable and are on the lower price range.

Again, not trying to start a debate over what people feel "comfortable"in carrying - but based on what I've seen in my life working ambulance/fire rescuer many years, the minimumI would want is a .380. Plus, there are a number of smaller 9mm out there if she can handle the recoil of that cartridge and the gun size.

Good luck to you both - the important thing is that she is thinking about the way things are now in this world and what she needs to do to feel safe. Whatever she ends up with, practice and practice often.
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Old July 4, 2018, 09:46 AM   #31
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I don't personally trust 32acp for SD.

That being said, I own a P32 and used to own a Tomcat. I didn't like the Tomcat trigger and it was fussy about ammo. My P32 is no harder to shoot and has given me zero problems.
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Old July 4, 2018, 10:31 AM   #32
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No problem-I'll just drop my NAA Guardian in my pocket for a couple of weeks...
Drove to work, and went to my friend's pawn shop at lunch and bought a spare P32 Keltec. The NAA is like carrying a brick!
That is hilarious.

I had carried a 1st Gen P32 for a number of years. It started looking pretty worn from the carrying and regular shooting. I went out and picked up a NAA Guardian 380. Carried it for a few days and bought a NAA Guardian 32. Carried that for a couple of weeks and ended up buying a 2nd Gen P32. I still carry that 2nd Gen in my back pocket as a BUG to this day.
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Old July 4, 2018, 10:34 AM   #33
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Very few gun shops rent out mouse guns. P32's, P3AT's are not going to shoot tens of thousands of rounds. Also, the polymer mag catch will wear out really fast with those not knowledgeable in the "proper" load/unload of the mag into the mag-well.
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Old July 4, 2018, 01:05 PM   #34
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The world would (eventually) be a better place if everyone had a P32 in their pocket.....
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Old July 5, 2018, 08:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
The Beretta Pico is a LOW-recoil .380, thin, and has a small grip. Racking the slide will likely be too much for her, but it would still be 7-shots with no need to rack it.

The Tomcats have a bad rep for cracking. Don't know how much of that is exaggerated. They're also expensive and pretty wide across the grips.

If she must have a 32, I'd look at the Kel-Tec.
Ditto on the Pico. Crazy Mild shooter. Beretta also had planned to bring out the 32.cal but that never surfaced. My guess is that the gun already shot so mild, to come out in 32.cal would not really be significant.
And I will say that the two Pico's I have been two of the most reliable semi's that I own. I have one for range and one for carry. The range gun, I stopped counting flawless rounds at 2,500 and that was quite a while ago and I shoot them weekly. The only failures I have had, were not the gun, but some cheap reloads that have bad primers. But the Pico with second strike capable quickly fired on the second shot. I was just admiring the quality of the gun last night. Beautiful workmanship of all the Stainless Steel that goes into the gun. Barrel, sub-chassis and even ships with a stainless steel guide rod. Magazines look like high end 1911 custom, all stainless and even a stainless steel follower. It is also one of the few Pocket guns Plus P rated and it handles the hottest load with no problem.
One of those guns that you just like to hold and admire.
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Old July 5, 2018, 08:33 AM   #36
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Seecamp .32 it has less recoil than the Seecamp .380. I have recently seen one at a gun show and seen a lot of talk on the internet about them being well built. It's on my wish list to buy in the next 6 months. About $430 is a good price you can find online, they can run high as $550! When you really see how tiny they are compared to a Ruger lcp it's amazing. I currently have a NAA revolver as deep concealed but I rather upgrade to a Seecamp..
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Old July 5, 2018, 03:36 PM   #37
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Right- If she's going to purse carry, why not just go with a S&W 500 magnum?
We are talking about pocket guns here-no pistol is a death ray without a CNS shot.
I was thinking the same thing, but not to the same extreme.

If she is going to purse carry, there are many small 9x19mm pistols that will be both more effective and more shootable than any of the .32 ACP mouse guns.

An M&P Shield, Glock 43, Kahr CM9, or similar-sized pistol is going to be lightweight and easily concealed in a purse.

If your concern is recoil, consider that the difference in felt recoil of a locked-breech 9x19mm pistol and a blowback .32 ACP may be very small, depending on the pistol and the shooter.
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Old July 5, 2018, 03:47 PM   #38
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The Tomcat is way too big for what it shoots and what its intended purpose is. Too many issues of frame/slide cracking being reported with them too. I would rather carry the .25 ACP Jetfire than the Tomcat, at least the .25 will last.

NAA is a heavy chunk of smooth steel. I still check gunbroker for used ones on occasion. If I find one for 200 and it looks okay, I'll probably buy it. More than that, it's not worth it because the Kel Tec is more worth it at a lower price.

Seecamp is nice, but it's not something I feel is worth the money for a pocket gun that you'd only use at point blank distances. All the above will do just as well a job for less. In fact, I'd rather buy two P32's for one Seecamp, that way I can draw with either hand or dual wield them to really show the perp who's boss.

There's really nothing out there that makes the Kel Tec a bad option. Not in mouse gun size anyway. The 1903 Pocket Hammerless and PPK are better guns, but they're a lot bigger.
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Old July 5, 2018, 05:52 PM   #39
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Can she spring for a Glock 43? It is a great carry gun and fairly easy to shoot well. Mouse guns are hard to shoot well and the .32 acp is not nearly as effective as 9mm.
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Old July 5, 2018, 08:18 PM   #40
Bill DeShivs
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No handgun cartridge is 100% effective without a central nervous system shot.
Generally the appearance of a handgun stops hostile activities. If it doesn't, getting shot usually does. Getting shot in the CNS with a .32 is just as effective as a 9mm or a .44 magnum.
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Old July 5, 2018, 08:19 PM   #41
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^^^^^

Truthtellers and Stephen, in two posts above, both gave very good advice.
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Old July 5, 2018, 10:09 PM   #42
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If you can find a used Bernadelli Model 60 or 80 they are very good guns for the price. My wife carries one every day. It is close in size, and appearance to a Walther PP. She shoots it well, and does not like shooting my pocket gun.

I would see if you can get her to try a few .380 auto guns, and let her know it is not just deal of bigger bullet. It is the fact that ammo for .380 acp is more readily available, and there is a greater variety of ammo choices, and more guns to choose from.
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Old July 6, 2018, 02:40 AM   #43
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Kelly-Tommy ? Are we talking personal defense weapons or changing the dress on a doll?
My choice in .32’s is the Keltec P 32 which is a very manageable pistol that you can cause to disappear on your person where it’s brother the .380 is a miserable thing to fire. Both are quite affordable and dependable protection.
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Old July 6, 2018, 03:34 AM   #44
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The Tomcat is surprisingly accurate. I was shocked at its surgical accuracy. Stone cold reliable too. Mine us the original, before they beefed up the slide. While I’m no advocate of mouse gun calibers, (and even if I was I’d be recommending the Ruger LCP instead), this is a great gun. The tip up barrel feature negates the need to rack the slide. Dang thing feeds ammo like a singer sewing machine. Accurate. Phenomenal trigger for a gun this size. Look hard at the Ruger LCP, it displaced my Tomcat for mousegun carry. But if you have your heart set on the Tomcat, you are looking at a great little pocket gun.
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Old July 6, 2018, 10:53 AM   #45
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I think something else you guys may be forgetting is the hand strength it takes to rack these small guns. I'm not trying to sound sexist, but several women I have taken shooting have had issues racking slides. These small guns have less slide travel and require somewhat stiff springs to avoid beating itself to pieces. The slides also tend to be pretty small, leaving little room to grip and rack. That is why Beretta went with the tip up barrel.

The other thing to consider is a small revolver, which eliminates the need to rack a slide at all. If the gun is to be carried in a purse, I suggest a shrouded hammer design to minimize junk getting into it and possibly causing malfunctions. A small 5 shot .38 special might fit the bill.
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Old July 6, 2018, 11:07 AM   #46
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I have a P32, it is tiny to carry and manageable to shoot. I wish it had real sights, I don't care what Larry Seecamp says.

The midget .380s like 3AT and LCP are no fun at all. I jumped up to a LC9s and a G43. Haven't picked a favorite yet. They are no worse to shoot than the itty bitty .380s and handle a serious cartridge.

I think there is a niche in the market for a more substantial, but still concealable .32. Bigger than a P32, smaller than a PPK. It would be a choice for the non-enthusiast who might otherwise pick a .22. My Plastic M&P Compact .22 is thus far reliable, but I would trust it more if it were a centerfire.

A nice simple revolver for those who might be confused by all the buttons and levers on an automatic? OK, bring back the S&W I frame and the Colt Courier in .32 H&R. Shoot .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long if your recoil tolerance is really low.
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Old July 6, 2018, 05:25 PM   #47
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The midget .380s like 3AT and LCP are no fun at all.
Today's the first time I shot my LCP (Gen 2) in over two years. I found it too unreliable (maybe not broken in) for ccw, and didn't want it as a fun gun because I reload and the brass went in all directions. I switched to a Pico instead.

A couple of months ago I read a long thread about Wolff recoil springs and the LCP. I ordered the 12# set, and that's what was in it today. It was a world of difference. I only fired 72 rounds, but there were no failures to do anything. The brass stayed in the 3:00-6:00 area. Recoil was down, seemed about the same as the P32 I shot (also for the first time). I'm not saying they felt the same, but I noticed no big difference when firing (except I prefer the LCP's trigger).

Wolff also has a 13# recoil spring set for the LCP, but some of the posts in that thread mentioned that often the brass would hit the shooter. That's why I went with 12#.
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Old July 6, 2018, 08:32 PM   #48
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I have a P32, it is tiny to carry and manageable to shoot. I wish it had real sights, I don't care what Larry Seecamp says.

The midget .380s like 3AT and LCP are no fun at all. I jumped up to a LC9s and a G43. Haven't picked a favorite yet. They are no worse to shoot than the itty bitty .380s and handle a serious cartridge.

I think there is a niche in the market for a more substantial, but still concealable .32. Bigger than a P32, smaller than a PPK. It would be a choice for the non-enthusiast who might otherwise pick a .22. My Plastic M&P Compact .22 is thus far reliable, but I would trust it more if it were a centerfire.

A nice simple revolver for those who might be confused by all the buttons and levers on an automatic? OK, bring back the S&W I frame and the Colt Courier in .32 H&R. Shoot .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long if your recoil tolerance is really low.
This is why I want Ruger to make the LCP in .32 ACP. The first point it hits is the LCP II has real sights and the second is it is a little bit bigger than the P32. I think the grip on the LCP II is also an improvement over Kel Tec's now 20 year old stipple grip.

For weight savings, yeah I would like to see a small .32 H&R or .32 S&W Long brought back. I don't think it would sell well at all thought because the cost will not be much less than the .38 LCR Ruger makes. Besides Ruger, the revolver manufacturers have abandoned the .32 caliber and in that Ruger is only making .327's.

The .32 handgun is a lot like a rear wheel drive truck: it will never be a .38/.380 or a 4x4, but if you just put a little extra into it, be it the best ammo or really good tires, and you do what you have to do to make it work, it will work. People don't really care to put that little extra into something, they'd rather just have it all done for them and not have to spend more than needed.
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Old July 6, 2018, 09:25 PM   #49
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if the .32 acp pocket gun was on the menu and I didn't already have a Seecamp, I'd opt for the Kel-tec.
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Old July 7, 2018, 12:07 AM   #50
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My wife has damaged wrists and has a CA Undercoverette 32 H&R magnum revolver for HD, if I happen to be away from home and she has to put someone out of their misery after her giant dogs are done chewing them up.

I went to the shooting range today and the manager had me check out the S&W 380EZ. It is made for the OP's needs. In fact, the design is extremely intelligent for its market. It is a PP-or-so sized 380 that fires from a locked breech. The slide is super easy to rack. Even though it has a lot of polymer and is light, the manager told me that in his experience the recoil is negligible. It seems like an excellent handgun for those who are recoil adverse and have trouble racking slides.
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