9mm powder change

[308Loader]

Hello again everyone. I ran out of HS6 for my 9mm loads, it is the only powder I have worked with so far. The LGS didn't have any so I went with tight group. When I got home I found that my hornady book didn't list it. Looking for suggestions for starting charge. I will be shooting a berretta 92a1 and sccy cpx1. On hand I have 115gr extreme plated rn bullets with cci SPP.

Thanks

[74A95]

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

[FITASC]

Books are outdated before they are printed; best to look online for the latest data.

[condor bravo]

The Lyman manual shows Titegroup with all its 9mm bullet listings. 4.0 to 4.5 for a 115
gr Hornady jacketed HP and 3.2 to 3.8 for a 120 gr cast round nose (the two closest bullet
weights to what you had indicated).

[308Loader]

I am more a rifle guy, what is the proper procedure for working up a pistil load?

[Don Fischer]

Same as a rifle but smaller steps!

[Tsquared]

TiteGroup is a very fast powder that has a small window where it performs very well. I have some loads for that powder but I only use TG as a last resort.

Work your test loads up in .1 gr increments. I have found the "window" tends to be towards the maximum recommended loads. I also recommend using a chrony.

[TJB101]

Good success with 4.1-4.2 gr with 115gr FMJ or TMJ bullets

[Chainsaw.]

Titegroup is a great pistol powder but like some one said above smaaaaalll changes.

Remember not to bump the shoulder back to much!

[BigJimP]

Working up a load...stay within the published Min and Max in the Hodgdon reloading guide ! ( wildcatting it, is not smart in my view -- especially when you are dealing with a powder like TiteGroup .

[T. O'Heir]

"...best to look online for the latest data..." Not entirely convinced Hodgdon's is even close to accurate on some cartridges and powders. For some reason they say to use magnum primers for magnum named cartridges regardless of what powder.
Anyway, plated bullets uses cast bullet data. 3.9 to 4.3 of Titegroup.
"...what is the proper procedure for working up a pistol load..." Same as it is for a rifle load. Start load and go up by usually .1 to the max load. Biggest difference between bottle necked rifle and handgun is carbide dies and having to flare the case mouth vs chamfering it. You're also working with a lot less powder.
"...Remember not to bump the shoulder back to(SIC) much..." What shoulder?

[FITASC]

Titegroup has about 1/2 grain difference from Min to Max, so watch your powder drops and use a good powder measure.

[Nick_C_S]

Judging by your bullet choice, I'm going to assume your load purpose is for general range shooting practice ammo. If so, I believe that TiteGroup is a better choice for your purpose, and once your load work up is complete, you're going to have ammo that you'll like better.

I have extensive experience with both HS-6 & TG. But I don't load a lot of 9mm, however. Just to let you know where I'm coming from.

TiteGroup is a very fast powder that has a small window where it performs very well.

True. To get into more detail, there is a big difference in burn rate between HS-6 & TG. The good news is that TG has a burn rate much better suited for your (believed) purpose. TG is energetic, spunky, hot burning stuff, well suited for light plated bullets - oh, just what you're doing

Contrast that with HS-6, which is an intermediate burn rate propellant (and on the slow side of intermediates), lackadaisical, cool burning, and much better suited for heavy bullets approaching max velocity.

HS-6 is notorious for running sooty - especially with light bullets (mostly because loaders don't understand its characteristics and thus, don't load with it properly - but that's for another post ). TG runs clean. HS-6 tends to be flashy with its share of recoil. TG tends to have minimal thrust recoil.

The two propellants bear little resemblance to one-another.

I think you're going to be pleased.

[Don P]

308Loader,

Hello again everyone. I ran out of HS6 for my 9mm loads, it is the only powder I have worked with so far. The LGS didn't have any so I went with tight group. When I got home I found that my hornady book didn't list it. Looking for suggestions for starting charge. I will be shooting a berretta 92a1 and sccy cpx1. On hand I have 115gr extreme plated rn bullets with cci SPP.

Nothing to worry about. I use titegroup exclusively for 380 ,38 spl, 357 mag, 9 mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp. Your bullet should use lead data. I am currently loading 4.0 grains with GREAT SUCCESS. If you want to soften up the load you can load 3.7 grains which will give you a power factor of 128,00 = 1086 fps.

[ShootistPRS]

A very good characteristic of Tite-Group is that it is not position sensitive at all. I have loaded down to 3.1 grains with a 115 grain bullet in my 9mm with no loss of function at any level. Because of this you can get very good accuracy even with light charges. My CZ function perfectly from maximum loads all the way down to a 66% of maximum load. Other autos may have stronger recoil springs that might be more sensitive to light loads. I have always tested my auto-loaders to see where light loads would cause feed or extraction problems. Tite-Group is the first powder I stopped the testing before finding any sensitivity.

[308Loader]

so, look at primers for craters and such? watch for vertical deviation, best 5 shot group with particular charge weight?

"load purpose is for general range shooting" correct

"plated bullets uses cast bullet data." thought that was about .355-.356 difference. berrys and cast are .356? some plated and all jacketed are .355? or is it more about overall softness.

"HS-6 is notorious for running sooty - especially with light bullets (mostly because loaders don't understand its characteristics and thus, don't load with it properly - but that's for another post )" correct on the sooty, interest is peaked at the later part of the statement.

[308Loader]

"Remember not to bump the shoulder back to much!"Thanks, I'll try not to flair the case mouth too much.

funny guy

[ShootistPRS]

By the time you get cratered primers in a pistol round you are already we beyond acceptable pressures. In revolvers you get sticky cases while the primers look quite normal. In an auto you will tear the gun up before you notice extraction problems.
Stay within published load date, using the same components. There is no way to know when a load is nearing dangerous pressure levels.

[jetinteriorguy]

TG is good stuff, I use it as my second favorite powder in 9mm. My favorite is Clays. I use it with both copper plated and HiTec coated with good results. Unfortunately I have no specific advice since I only shoot 124-125 gr bullets. I use a lot of TG in both .38sp and .357 mag and love it there. As a general rule I load these type bullets from mid level lead to mid level jacketed data with good success. Usually in my experience I find best performance around the top of the lead data or the bottom of the jacketed data. Occasionally a load will go all the way to mid jacketed level for best results. This is not a hard fast rule, but just a general procedure that has worked well for me. Like anything always work up loads carefully watching for pressure signs.

[308Loader]

so I updated my loading library, picked up hornady 10th and nosler 8th. nosler 8th dosent show TG with 115gr bullets but does show for 124gr. hornady 10th shows start at 3.7 max 4.1. hodgdon site shows 4.5 start to 4.8max. TG bottle shows 4.8 only.

all info is conflicting!

safe start then would be 3.7?
safe max 4.8?

[Nick_C_S]

safe start then would be 3.7?

That's where I would start.

safe max 4.8?

We don't know yet. That's part of doing a load work up.

[308Loader]

what do pressure signs on 9mm look like then?

"By the time you get cratered primers in a pistol round you are already we beyond acceptable pressures"

"In an auto you will tear the gun up before you notice extraction problems."

"Working up a load...stay within the published Min and Max in the Hodgdon reloading guide !"

[308Loader]

load plan for tomorrow looks like:

X-tream 115gr rn .355", seated to 1.100
CCI SPP 500
tight group

10 @:
3.7gr
3.8gr
3.9gr
4.0gr
4.1gr - max in hornady book

[Nick_C_S]

Looks like a good plan.

Since your purpose is to make good range shooting ammo, the question becomes "how fast do you need to go?"

When I make range ammo, I want it to run clean (easily accomplished with TG), consistent (low shot over shot velocity variance i.e. Standard Deviation), accurate (of course), and cycles the firearm properly. It's also good if they "feel" like they have a little punch to them; after all, range practice includes getting used to recoil.

Pressure signs in 9mm can be tricky. For me, it's mostly a feel thing. If the recoil is slide jarring, that's a good indicator (assuming your recoil spring is healthy). I don't load a lot of 9mm, and I don't see a lot of need to push it too hard.

I stay with published data from a reliable source; use a chronograph; and use good sense. I know that's vague. But there's two points of good news: First, most modern 9mm's are build pretty sturdy, so that coupled with good sense should keep you out of pressure trouble. Second, your load purpose doesn't require max pressure, so there's no point in running the charges through the roof. Don't loose sight of your purpose - good range ammo.

TiteGroup under 115's is a great combination for your purpose. Your work up should go pretty easy.

[308Loader]

All went well. Fingers, face, eyes and guns seem to be in working order. Thanks for the input. Nicer group seemed to be at the lower end with the cpx and the 92a1. both cycled just fine. Trying it again next weekend more round robin with the charge weights.