Best powder for 200gr SWC? - Page 2

rodfac · January 30, 2016, 09:13 PM

Hunter, many thanks for the timely response and the info. I'm about to change out my springs on the whole crowd and will take your recommendation.

The battery now includes both of the all steel Ruger 1911's, a Remington Rand wwll A1, two Gold Cups, a Colt Combat Commander, and most recently a Sig 1911 RCS. Two of them are my #2 son's but I do the loading and most maintenance while he's seeing to a dozen horses and two daughters under the age of three....a good division of work to my way of thinking.

I checked my Lyman manual this evening and see that 5.7 is well below max. Too, that 200 gr SWC has been very good in all of my 1911's, as well as a Sig 220 and a Smith M25. I'm lubing my own with 45-45-10 or LLA. Do the same with Missouri Bullet Co.'s BBSWC at 200 gr's. If I'm having a good "eyes" day with the sun at my back and a good solid rest, 5.4 to 5.5 will give me 2" or less at 25 yds...even the Remington Rand does less than 3" with that load. No leading with my own at 0.452" or Missouri's at the same dia. I lube right over the hard blue lube that they use.

Again thanks for the info. Rod

Hunter Customs · January 31, 2016, 10:16 AM

rodfac, you are welcome for the info, I hope it works well in your guns.

I too know about the good "eyes" days, as I get older I think of many things I took for granted in my younger days.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

chris in va · February 1, 2016, 04:47 AM

Alrighty, had a chance to put a few dozen into paper today.

I started with the hottest, 6gr Bullseye. Stout and gave bad shotgun patterns. Yuck.

Dropped to 5.5 and some improvement but not great.

5.2 gave me something to hope for with an actual group, maybe 3" at 15 yards. Meh.

Someone pointed out 4.1gr so I fired the ten I made, not expecting much. Whoa, wait now! These darn near put it in the same hole. I was frustrated having only made a mag full of these. They even cycled the gun somehow.

Now here's the interesting thing, a hotter charge of Universal kept making my gun jam, multiple FTE. Even the lower Bullseye charges ejected just fine, go figure. I guess it just needed a faster powder.

I'll just settle for 4.5 to be on the safe side for operation. Seems like many people recommend it.

pete2 · February 1, 2016, 10:15 AM

Pet bullseye competition load is 4.2 Bullseye, Fed primer and 200 gr cast swc. You may want to use the same brand brass but it won't make a huge difference except on a chronograph. I also used a light load of Clays powder that was accurate.

Nick_C_S · February 1, 2016, 01:08 PM

Quote:

I guess it just needed a faster powder.

Somebody smarter than me might be able to explain; but I know from experience that 45 ACP's (1911's, anyway) seem to behave better with faster propellants. A bit oversimplified, but basically, the only time I load with intermediate speed powders for 45 ACP is when I'm going wide-open-throttle.

Quote:

I'll just settle for 4.5 to be on the safe side for operation. Seems like many people recommend it.

We all need to do our own work-ups, of course. But I had a hunch you'd end up in this neighborhood.

My recommendation is to load a few more (3 or 4 mags worth each) in the 4.1 through 4.6 range. Then go give 'em a whirl. And of course, this is just my recommendation. The beauty of handloading is you get to make your own decisions and do your own thing.

Be safe. Have fun.

oldreloader · February 7, 2016, 01:20 AM

My 45 ACP powders are Bullseye, HP38 and AA#2

Brit · February 7, 2016, 04:27 AM

When we first started shooting IPSC in Toronto Canada, at my local Bullseye Pistol Club, we were clueless on the modifications on the .45 ACP 1911 Colts.
1980 was the start of this new endeavor.

Some we bought new in the box, would not even feed hardball factory ammo!

My reloads were 200g Hensley and Gibbs mold # 68. Loaded on a Star progressive. In an excursion into the States (Buffalo) USA, I came across a 12lb keg of Dupont 700X, basically a shotgun powder. I had tried this at one time for my class .38 Special reloads.

Found a load in an old book, and went at it. Came to a load that made Major velocities, 5.2g behind a 200g hard cast lead #68.

The price was right, so I switched to 700X for my .32 target loads, and .38 special also, the .45 ACP loads were super accurate, and consistent velocities.

I am going to guess on my .32 S&W wadcutter loads, 1.4g of 700X behind a swaged 90g projectile! At 20m this was a one hole load! When I did my part.

The recoil was non-existent. What a walk down memory lane! Only shoot 9mm now, factory at that. Carry loads, 147g Ranger T, IDPA matches, any round that goes bang!

Pilot · February 7, 2016, 04:49 AM

For 200 grain LSWC I use 4.0 grains of Clays. I've also used Titegroup, and had good results, but always come back to Clays for target loads. I shoot them in Colt 1911's, and a CZ-97B.

MightyMO1911 · February 7, 2016, 01:05 PM

4 grains of bullseye

Slamfire · February 7, 2016, 02:49 PM

I have been shooting Bullseye pistol and using the great H&G 68 type of 200LSWC. I have also been using Bullseye. My 50 yard load is 4.0 grains Bullseye. This is an old staple of Bullseye shooters and superbly accurate. I am running the stock spring with all my loads.

Recently I went out and tested some lower velocity loads. I wanted less recoil for the timed fire and rapid fire sequences at 25 yards. I suspect the 3.5 grain load, which is what I use, is less accurate than the 4.0 grain load, but the recoil is less. Shoot one handed and try to keep all shots in a two inch circle at 25 yards, in a rapid fire sequence, and you will lust for low recoil. I dribble oil over my 3.5 grain cartridge cases, to break the friction between case and chamber, and ensure reliable extraction. It is messy as all heck as the magazines become oily, and oil is blown out into the air in front of the pistol. But I don't have malfunctions, something I was having around 100 rounds into the bullseye match when I used non lubricated cases. I had a couple of failures to feed with the lighter load with dry cases and dry chambers. Actually, the chambers were pretty foul by the time I get to the 45 ACP stage. I shoot the same pistol through the 90 round centerfire pistol match and the 45 ACP match. After I started dropping oil on my rapid fire and timed fire rounds, I have never had a failure to feed or extract with my light loads.

All my loads are thrown on a Dillion 550B, the charges are an average of ten throws.

M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter

200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"

Ave Vel = 660.6
Std Dev = 16.37
ES = 60.28
High = 695.6
Low = 635.3
N = 22

functioned every round, light recoil, accurate

200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
oiled cases

Ave Vel = 714.4
Std Dev = 17.17
ES = 77.2
High = 755.1
Low = 677.9
N = 30

accurate

200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
oiled cases

Ave Vel = 742.9
Std Dev = 9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
N = 20

accurate

std7mag · February 7, 2016, 05:26 PM

I've been shooting Hornady 200gr. C/T LSWC. #12208.
Mixed casings.
Winchester/CCI large primer, Fed small primer.
Using Unique, or Red Dot.
1.210"

Recoil seems a little stouter with the Red Dot (though not by much), but the casings are WAAAYYYYY cleaner.

Both run close to 800 FPS.

Brit · February 10, 2016, 03:43 PM

As we were new into IPSC, we experimented a whole lot, reference, guns and ammo, holsters, belts ETC.

One test I did, I loaded 20 rounds of my 5.2g of 700X, each bullet weighed.
Checked a couple of dropped powder charges, on my Star progressive press.
Invented the same year that I was, in 1935!!

I put ten of them down range, in my 1913 acurized by Al Dynen? SP?

The average velocity was (I think 815fps) I do know, one year later, on my birthday Oct. 27th, I fired off the last 10 rounds, exactly the same velocity!

The things we remember! Al was killed in a Jeep accident, I got my 2008 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, totaled on the 26th of Dec. Boxing day, 2015. Trivia!

Just had my 2016 Cherokee, the wee one, 2 weeks. More Trivia.

1100 tac · February 11, 2016, 07:20 PM

200gr H&G 68 pattern over 4.8 BE (850fps) or 5.0 231, (800fps) or 5.2 N320
955fps, they all shoot just fine thank you, and the 955 is gonna take down most anything it hits.

Mike / Tx · February 12, 2016, 05:31 AM

I have tried several powders for accuracy loads with my 1911's. Some did very well but had one or more issues that I really didn't care for. Nothing more than being dirty or more pop than I really wanted for these type loads.

I settled on 4.0gr of Bullseye under two different bullets. Either one of them shoots equally as accurate as the other with the same loads. The main reason I did this was I was given 6 one pound cans of the HG 78's which are basically the 185gr version of the #68 which is 200grs. Well after finding my way into this load and also getting into casting myself I simply had to give the 68 a try as well. So after a little bit of a mold search I managed to come up with a 68 mold and went to town.

Thrown with which ever alloy I have in the pot when I need some the 68's preform as good or in most cases better than I can hold them out to 25yds. I shot the following two 10 shot groups at 10yds due to range maintenance on the longer bays the day I was there, these were fired standing with a two hand hold.

The loads used mixed cases, and Wolf Primers. Like I mentioned though, the primers have been switched from Wolf, to CCI, to Wn all with equal results with both of these bullets. The main thing is the 4.0gr load of BE that does it in my pistols.

January 30, 2016, 09:13 PM	#26
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,624	Hunter, many thanks for the timely response and the info. I'm about to change out my springs on the whole crowd and will take your recommendation. The battery now includes both of the all steel Ruger 1911's, a Remington Rand wwll A1, two Gold Cups, a Colt Combat Commander, and most recently a Sig 1911 RCS. Two of them are my #2 son's but I do the loading and most maintenance while he's seeing to a dozen horses and two daughters under the age of three....a good division of work to my way of thinking. I checked my Lyman manual this evening and see that 5.7 is well below max. Too, that 200 gr SWC has been very good in all of my 1911's, as well as a Sig 220 and a Smith M25. I'm lubing my own with 45-45-10 or LLA. Do the same with Missouri Bullet Co.'s BBSWC at 200 gr's. If I'm having a good "eyes" day with the sun at my back and a good solid rest, 5.4 to 5.5 will give me 2" or less at 25 yds...even the Remington Rand does less than 3" with that load. No leading with my own at 0.452" or Missouri's at the same dia. I lube right over the hard blue lube that they use. Again thanks for the info. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; January 30, 2016 at 09:22 PM.

February 7, 2016, 04:49 AM	#33
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	For 200 grain LSWC I use 4.0 grains of Clays. I've also used Titegroup, and had good results, but always come back to Clays for target loads. I shoot them in Colt 1911's, and a CZ-97B. __________________ Pilot

February 7, 2016, 02:49 PM	#35
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I have been shooting Bullseye pistol and using the great H&G 68 type of 200LSWC. I have also been using Bullseye. My 50 yard load is 4.0 grains Bullseye. This is an old staple of Bullseye shooters and superbly accurate. I am running the stock spring with all my loads. Recently I went out and tested some lower velocity loads. I wanted less recoil for the timed fire and rapid fire sequences at 25 yards. I suspect the 3.5 grain load, which is what I use, is less accurate than the 4.0 grain load, but the recoil is less. Shoot one handed and try to keep all shots in a two inch circle at 25 yards, in a rapid fire sequence, and you will lust for low recoil. I dribble oil over my 3.5 grain cartridge cases, to break the friction between case and chamber, and ensure reliable extraction. It is messy as all heck as the magazines become oily, and oil is blown out into the air in front of the pistol. But I don't have malfunctions, something I was having around 100 rounds into the bullseye match when I used non lubricated cases. I had a couple of failures to feed with the lighter load with dry cases and dry chambers. Actually, the chambers were pretty foul by the time I get to the 45 ACP stage. I shoot the same pistol through the 90 round centerfire pistol match and the 45 ACP match. After I started dropping oil on my rapid fire and timed fire rounds, I have never had a failure to feed or extract with my light loads. All my loads are thrown on a Dillion 550B, the charges are an average of ten throws. M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter 200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" Ave Vel = 660.6 Std Dev = 16.37 ES = 60.28 High = 695.6 Low = 635.3 N = 22 functioned every round, light recoil, accurate 200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases Ave Vel = 714.4 Std Dev = 17.17 ES = 77.2 High = 755.1 Low = 677.9 N = 30 accurate 200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases Ave Vel = 742.9 Std Dev = 9.89 ES = 33.19 High = 760.6 Low = 727.5 N = 20 accurate __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

February 12, 2016, 05:31 AM	#39
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I have tried several powders for accuracy loads with my 1911's. Some did very well but had one or more issues that I really didn't care for. Nothing more than being dirty or more pop than I really wanted for these type loads. I settled on 4.0gr of Bullseye under two different bullets. Either one of them shoots equally as accurate as the other with the same loads. The main reason I did this was I was given 6 one pound cans of the HG 78's which are basically the 185gr version of the #68 which is 200grs. Well after finding my way into this load and also getting into casting myself I simply had to give the 68 a try as well. So after a little bit of a mold search I managed to come up with a 68 mold and went to town. Thrown with which ever alloy I have in the pot when I need some the 68's preform as good or in most cases better than I can hold them out to 25yds. I shot the following two 10 shot groups at 10yds due to range maintenance on the longer bays the day I was there, these were fired standing with a two hand hold. The loads used mixed cases, and Wolf Primers. Like I mentioned though, the primers have been switched from Wolf, to CCI, to Wn all with equal results with both of these bullets. The main thing is the 4.0gr load of BE that does it in my pistols. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

January 31, 2016, 10:16 AM	#27
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	rodfac, you are welcome for the info, I hope it works well in your guns. I too know about the good "eyes" days, as I get older I think of many things I took for granted in my younger days. Best Regards Bob Hunter

February 1, 2016, 04:47 AM	#28
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Alrighty, had a chance to put a few dozen into paper today. I started with the hottest, 6gr Bullseye. Stout and gave bad shotgun patterns. Yuck. Dropped to 5.5 and some improvement but not great. 5.2 gave me something to hope for with an actual group, maybe 3" at 15 yards. Meh. Someone pointed out 4.1gr so I fired the ten I made, not expecting much. Whoa, wait now! These darn near put it in the same hole. I was frustrated having only made a mag full of these. They even cycled the gun somehow. Now here's the interesting thing, a hotter charge of Universal kept making my gun jam, multiple FTE. Even the lower Bullseye charges ejected just fine, go figure. I guess it just needed a faster powder. I'll just settle for 4.5 to be on the safe side for operation. Seems like many people recommend it.

February 1, 2016, 10:15 AM	#29
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Pet bullseye competition load is 4.2 Bullseye, Fed primer and 200 gr cast swc. You may want to use the same brand brass but it won't make a huge difference except on a chronograph. I also used a light load of Clays powder that was accurate.

February 7, 2016, 01:20 AM	#31
oldreloader Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Magnolia, Arkansas Posts: 251	My 45 ACP powders are Bullseye, HP38 and AA#2

February 7, 2016, 04:27 AM	#32
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	When we first started shooting IPSC in Toronto Canada, at my local Bullseye Pistol Club, we were clueless on the modifications on the .45 ACP 1911 Colts. 1980 was the start of this new endeavor. Some we bought new in the box, would not even feed hardball factory ammo! My reloads were 200g Hensley and Gibbs mold # 68. Loaded on a Star progressive. In an excursion into the States (Buffalo) USA, I came across a 12lb keg of Dupont 700X, basically a shotgun powder. I had tried this at one time for my class .38 Special reloads. Found a load in an old book, and went at it. Came to a load that made Major velocities, 5.2g behind a 200g hard cast lead #68. The price was right, so I switched to 700X for my .32 target loads, and .38 special also, the .45 ACP loads were super accurate, and consistent velocities. I am going to guess on my .32 S&W wadcutter loads, 1.4g of 700X behind a swaged 90g projectile! At 20m this was a one hole load! When I did my part. The recoil was non-existent. What a walk down memory lane! Only shoot 9mm now, factory at that. Carry loads, 147g Ranger T, IDPA matches, any round that goes bang!

February 7, 2016, 01:05 PM	#34
MightyMO1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2014 Posts: 122	4 grains of bullseye

February 7, 2016, 05:26 PM	#36
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I've been shooting Hornady 200gr. C/T LSWC. #12208. Mixed casings. Winchester/CCI large primer, Fed small primer. Using Unique, or Red Dot. 1.210" Recoil seems a little stouter with the Red Dot (though not by much), but the casings are WAAAYYYYY cleaner. Both run close to 800 FPS.

February 10, 2016, 03:43 PM	#37
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	As we were new into IPSC, we experimented a whole lot, reference, guns and ammo, holsters, belts ETC. One test I did, I loaded 20 rounds of my 5.2g of 700X, each bullet weighed. Checked a couple of dropped powder charges, on my Star progressive press. Invented the same year that I was, in 1935!! I put ten of them down range, in my 1913 acurized by Al Dynen? SP? The average velocity was (I think 815fps) I do know, one year later, on my birthday Oct. 27th, I fired off the last 10 rounds, exactly the same velocity! The things we remember! Al was killed in a Jeep accident, I got my 2008 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, totaled on the 26th of Dec. Boxing day, 2015. Trivia! Just had my 2016 Cherokee, the wee one, 2 weeks. More Trivia.

February 11, 2016, 07:20 PM	#38
1100 tac Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2012 Posts: 299	200gr H&G 68 pattern over 4.8 BE (850fps) or 5.0 231, (800fps) or 5.2 N320 955fps, they all shoot just fine thank you, and the 955 is gonna take down most anything it hits.