The proper term is 'Silencer', not 'Suppressor' - Page 3

BigG · July 26, 2013, 04:58 PM

I go along with Skans on this. It's a can.

Machineguntony · July 27, 2013, 11:29 PM

This is exactly what I mean. I was posting in mother thread, and this jackass surly know it all gun store guy sends me this PM...

I will leave him anonymous...

'..."silencer" is NOT the proper term. They're suppressors, they don't silence anything and they're only called that in movies. If you did that in MY shop I'd ask you to leave'

Theohazard · July 27, 2013, 11:43 PM

Wow. OK, since he works at a shop, ask him which term he writes down when he fills out the Form 4 and the 4473. I can promise you he's not writing "suppressor" on those forms.

newfrontier45 · July 27, 2013, 11:44 PM

So the government calls semi-automatic AR-15's "assault weapons" and we're up in arms over that but we accept their terminology for a sound suppressor??? Shall we accept their health plan too???

Machineguntony · July 27, 2013, 11:46 PM

This new frontier guy gives the gun industry a bad name. He's like a walking cliche.

He's sending me some very lively PMs! Lol for sure it must be a suppressor. Lol

Machineguntony · July 28, 2013, 12:03 AM

There's a difference between the term 'assault weapon' and 'silencer'. Assault weapon is not an original term for the items it describes, whereas silencer is a legal and original term.

'Assault weapon' is purely a political term. I don't know who originated the term, but my guess is the gun control crowd started using the term to control political debate.

'Silencer' was the original term used by it's inventor, Hiram Percy Maxim. And legally it's known as a 'silencer', and has always been known as a 'silencer'. Speculation is that the silencer manufacturers first used the term 'suppressor' in their attempt to control the political debate, so as to convince the ATF to remove silencers from the NFA list.

So when you say SUPPRESSOR, you are engaging in political correctness. Suppressor is not incorrect, but neither is is correct. Just don't get your panties in a bunch when other people use politically correct terms like African American, Physically Challenged, Mentally Different, etc.

But most importantly, the term 'silencer' gets know it all gun store guys like newfrontier, all riled up! Lol

Theohazard · July 28, 2013, 12:16 AM

Quote:

newfrontier45 posted
So the government calls semi-automatic AR-15's "assault weapons" and we're up in arms over that but we accept their terminology for a sound suppressor??? Shall we accept their health plan too???

C'mon, think a little bit here; this is completely different and you know it. The government calls it a "silencer" because the inventor called it that and patented it under that name. Then when the NFA was written they use the term "silencer" because that was what it was called; the term "sound suppressor" didn't exist then.

"Assault weapon" is a term for a made-up class of firearms that doesn't technically exist outside of gun-ban legislation. "Silencer" is term for an actual thing; a term that was first used by the person who invented it. If you can't tell the difference between the two, then I just don't know what to say...

EDIT: Oops; I didn't see Tony's reply just above me.

Machineguntony · July 28, 2013, 01:01 AM

Haha, great minds think alike Theo.

BigG · July 29, 2013, 05:34 PM

Machineguntony: Assault Rifle (not weapon) is an actual term that derives from Sturmgewehr, the German term for it's WWII assault rifles.

Theohazard · July 29, 2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:

BigG posted:
Assault Rifle (not weapon) is an actual term that derives from Sturmgewehr, the German term for it's WWII assault rifles.

None of us are referring to assault rifles; I'm pretty sure we all know what those are. What we're referring to is the made-up political term "assault weapon".

johnwilliamson062 · July 29, 2013, 09:18 PM

IT is really irrelevant which term you use. They are synonymous to almost anyone who is anti-gun or in the middle. I am not sure that is true of suppressor and silencer. Most people have an image from a movie that is conjured when they hear "silencer." Most people probably have no idea what a "suppressor" is without clarification.

**Mike Irwin** · July 30, 2013, 10:01 AM

I personally call them Unboomeners...

Scubasimmons · July 30, 2013, 04:45 PM

They are NADs (Noise Abatement Devices).

BigG · July 30, 2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

BigG posted:
Assault Rifle (not weapon) is an actual term that derives from Sturmgewehr, the German term for it's WWII assault rifles.

Quote:

None of us are referring to assault rifles; I'm pretty sure we all know what those are. What we're referring to is the made-up political term "assault weapon".

I just appreciate correct terminology. Ask if I give a flip what a politically correct hack terms something.

**Tom Servo** · July 30, 2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

I personally call them Unboomeners.

They do mitigate the gatspatter quite a bit

Theohazard · July 30, 2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

BigG posted:
I just appreciate correct terminology. Ask if I give a flip what a politically correct hack terms something.

Ok, now I'm just confused. Are you saying Tony was using incorrect terminology? Or were you discussing the history of the term "assault rifle" even though we aren't discussing assault rifles in this thread?

James K · July 30, 2013, 11:41 PM

Doggone it, whatever I call something is the right, correct, and only allowable term for I am never wrong. And that's it!

Jim

**44 AMP** · July 31, 2013, 01:08 PM

I thought that the mention of assault rifles/assault weapons was brought up to show a comparison, and the differences between how terms are used in conversation, and in law, and how either one can be correct or incorrect, depending on the item under discussion, and the context.

Silencer is what the inventor called it for marketing. Silencer is what the govt called it in law. Supressor is what it is, and what it does. How could one be wrong, and not the other?

I never heard the term suppressor until the late 60s or early 70s, and then it was only in connection with rifles. I think that the term got popular because of people pointing out that you cannot "slience" a supersonic bullet, you can only "suppress" the muzzle blast.

want an easy rule of thumb? Call them Silencers for subsonic rounds, and suppressors for supersonic rounds. How is that not a win/win?

And, btw, any clerk that deigns to kick me out of his shop because he knows more than I do (about anything) may know a lot about something, but doesn't know anything about business. Cause he just lost mine, and everyone I can influence.

newfrontier45 · July 31, 2013, 01:41 PM

Yes, I do believe we should "think" a little bit and beyond what happened 100yrs ago. Maxim was free to call it whatever he wanted. Want to see some real marketing fluff, look at some of the old ads for Herter's revolvers. Fact remains, they do not "silence" anything and it's a common misconception among the unwashed masses that they do. It also contributes to the Hollywood-induced myth that they're a tool of the assassin. All of which makes it nearly impossible to get the NFA repealed. What it does is that it suppresses the sound produced. In Europe, they're called "moderators", which is also infinitely more accurate than "silencer". They're also sold without ANY special licensing whatsoever. My point was that governments, politicians and lawyers do and say stupid things and don't always have the interests of the people or their freedom at heart. I don't know why we would lend any credibility to anything they do without engaging our own brains first.

Quote:

And, btw, any clerk that deigns to kick me out of his shop because he knows more than I do (about anything) may know a lot about something, but doesn't know anything about business. Cause he just lost mine, and everyone I can influence.

That was in reference to something completely different. He butted into a conversation between the clerk and another customer. Yes, if a know-it-all patron butted into a conversation between myself and another customer because he disagreed with what was being suggested, he would probably not like the result. Has nothing to do with anyone knowing more than anyone else and everything to do with manners and common courtesy.

spacecoast · July 31, 2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Yes, I do believe we should "think" a little bit and beyond what happened 100yrs ago. Maxim was free to call it whatever he wanted. Want to see some real marketing fluff, look at some of the old ads for Herter's revolvers. Fact remains, they do not "silence" anything and it's a common misconception among the unwashed masses that they do. It also contributes to the Hollywood-induced myth that they're a tool of the assassin. All of which makes it nearly impossible to get the NFA repealed. What it does is that it suppresses the sound produced. In Europe, they're called "moderators", which is also infinitely more accurate than "silencer". They're also sold without ANY special licensing whatsoever. My point was that governments, politicians and lawyers do and say stupid things and don't always have the interests of the people or their freedom at heart. I don't know why we would lend any credibility to anything they do without engaging our own brains first.

Completely agree, the restriction/tax on suppressors is one of the silliest firearms-related regulations out there and referring to them as silencers only helps perpetuate the problem.

Lark · July 31, 2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

In Europe, they're called "moderators", which is also infinitely more accurate than "silencer". They're also sold without ANY special licensing whatsoever.

Europe is a rather broad term. It is not all one country yet. Laws vary. Below is from Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt.

Civilian possession/use prohibited

Austria
Hungary
Netherlands – air guns only
Romania
Russia – prohibited but no penalty
Turkey

Highly restricted

Czech Republic
Denmark
Germany

License/permit required

Finland – permit required
Sweden – license normally granted
United Kingdom – license required but normally issued

Little or no regulation

Italy – not allowed for hunting
Norway
Poland – regulated but laws lightly enforced

Give me the laws in the USA over those in Europe anyday.

Brian Pfleuger · July 31, 2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lark

Give me the laws in the USA over those in Europe anyday.

The USA is rather a broad term.

Some states, all NFA items are for all intents and purposes completely banned. Others, they're completely unregulated except federal law.

Lark · July 31, 2013, 07:56 PM

Some of those laws are changing. I have a meeting with a committee chairman this weekend. I'm confident that we can convince him to allow our SBR bill a chance at a hearing next session.

johnwilliamson062 · July 31, 2013, 08:48 PM

If I'm waiting for help and the store clerk is chit chatting with another customer I reserve the right to enter the conversation. It isn't the clerks living room.

Of course, I don't shop at the local stores much anymore.

newfrontier45 · August 1, 2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

If I'm waiting for help and the store clerk is chit chatting with another customer I reserve the right to enter the conversation. It isn't the clerks living room.

They weren't chit-chatting and he didn't "enter the conversation". The clerk was advising the customer on what handgun to purchase and the "gentleman" above decided he didn't like what was being said and interjected strictly to argue with the clerk's recommendation. The customer left.

July 26, 2013, 04:58 PM	#51
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	I go along with Skans on this. It's a can. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

July 27, 2013, 11:43 PM	#53
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	Wow. OK, since he works at a shop, ask him which term he writes down when he fills out the Form 4 and the 4473. I can promise you he's not writing "suppressor" on those forms. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

July 27, 2013, 11:46 PM	#55
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	This new frontier guy gives the gun industry a bad name. He's like a walking cliche. He's sending me some very lively PMs! Lol for sure it must be a suppressor. Lol __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 28, 2013, 12:03 AM	#56
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	There's a difference between the term 'assault weapon' and 'silencer'. Assault weapon is not an original term for the items it describes, whereas silencer is a legal and original term. 'Assault weapon' is purely a political term. I don't know who originated the term, but my guess is the gun control crowd started using the term to control political debate. 'Silencer' was the original term used by it's inventor, Hiram Percy Maxim. And legally it's known as a 'silencer', and has always been known as a 'silencer'. Speculation is that the silencer manufacturers first used the term 'suppressor' in their attempt to control the political debate, so as to convince the ATF to remove silencers from the NFA list. So when you say SUPPRESSOR, you are engaging in political correctness. Suppressor is not incorrect, but neither is is correct. Just don't get your panties in a bunch when other people use politically correct terms like African American, Physically Challenged, Mentally Different, etc. But most importantly, the term 'silencer' gets know it all gun store guys like newfrontier, all riled up! Lol __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x Last edited by Machineguntony; July 28, 2013 at 12:14 AM.

July 28, 2013, 01:01 AM	#58
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Haha, great minds think alike Theo. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 27, 2013, 11:29 PM	#52
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	This is exactly what I mean. I was posting in mother thread, and this jackass surly know it all gun store guy sends me this PM... I will leave him anonymous... '..."silencer" is NOT the proper term. They're suppressors, they don't silence anything and they're only called that in movies. If you did that in MY shop I'd ask you to leave'

July 27, 2013, 11:44 PM	#54
newfrontier45 Junior member Join Date: February 23, 2012 Posts: 921	So the government calls semi-automatic AR-15's "assault weapons" and we're up in arms over that but we accept their terminology for a sound suppressor??? Shall we accept their health plan too???

July 29, 2013, 05:34 PM	#59
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Machineguntony: Assault Rifle (not weapon) is an actual term that derives from Sturmgewehr, the German term for it's WWII assault rifles. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

July 29, 2013, 09:18 PM	#61
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	IT is really irrelevant which term you use. They are synonymous to almost anyone who is anti-gun or in the middle. I am not sure that is true of suppressor and silencer. Most people have an image from a movie that is conjured when they hear "silencer." Most people probably have no idea what a "suppressor" is without clarification.

July 30, 2013, 10:01 AM	#62
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	I personally call them Unboomeners... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 30, 2013, 04:45 PM	#63
Scubasimmons Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 119	They are NADs (Noise Abatement Devices).

July 30, 2013, 11:41 PM	#67
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Doggone it, whatever I call something is the right, correct, and only allowable term for I am never wrong. And that's it! Jim

July 31, 2013, 01:08 PM	#68
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I thought that the mention of assault rifles/assault weapons was brought up to show a comparison, and the differences between how terms are used in conversation, and in law, and how either one can be correct or incorrect, depending on the item under discussion, and the context. Silencer is what the inventor called it for marketing. Silencer is what the govt called it in law. Supressor is what it is, and what it does. How could one be wrong, and not the other? I never heard the term suppressor until the late 60s or early 70s, and then it was only in connection with rifles. I think that the term got popular because of people pointing out that you cannot "slience" a supersonic bullet, you can only "suppress" the muzzle blast. want an easy rule of thumb? Call them Silencers for subsonic rounds, and suppressors for supersonic rounds. How is that not a win/win? And, btw, any clerk that deigns to kick me out of his shop because he knows more than I do (about anything) may know a lot about something, but doesn't know anything about business. Cause he just lost mine, and everyone I can influence. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 31, 2013, 07:56 PM	#73
Lark Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2012 Location: Western WA Posts: 144	Some of those laws are changing. I have a meeting with a committee chairman this weekend. I'm confident that we can convince him to allow our SBR bill a chance at a hearing next session. __________________ Lark is free!

July 31, 2013, 08:48 PM	#74
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	If I'm waiting for help and the store clerk is chit chatting with another customer I reserve the right to enter the conversation. It isn't the clerks living room. Of course, I don't shop at the local stores much anymore.