need some help from some old timers!!!

[semi_problomatic]

well...not that I'm calling anyone old here...

just getting into reloading. Its not about the price of the rounds, its about accuracy. I want to KNOW every round is EXACTLY the same using the BEST powders, bullets, primers etc. The only way to do that is to do it yourself. So with that said :

I've decided on a rock chucker single stage kit, I'm sure you know what all it comes with. I plan on reloading a .308 and a 45-70 for my dad. So here's the problem. Every time I think I find a forum that'll help with beginners they get real specific on this this and then they get bored and taper off to "some other tools"

Here's a list of what I'm planning on getting so far, I've looked into dies but there's about a bizillion different ones and I'd hate to waste money finding the right one when I'm sure some of you have already done that and I can just learn from you. So help with dies would be much appreciated. I'm not talking the generic "dies to fit your caliber" because there's a million of 'em.

RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Single Stage Press Master Kit
Frankford Arsenal Electronic Caliper
Lyman Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition
RCBS Shellholder #3
RCBS Shellholder #14
Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet Puller
Hornady M-2 Case tumbler 110 volt
Frankford Arsenal Brass Cleaning Media Treated Walnut Hull 7lb bag

I still need to find all the stuff to trim cases and make all my flash holes uniform and doctor up primer etc etc. But I've started running in circles trying to find these things that are worth it and what I need. I'm not going to be pumping out 1000's of rounds a month, probably no more than 160 - 240 a month, plus whatever I roll for my dad. So in the above list what is unnessicary, what is junk and what do I need to add to do the job right and create precise, accurate rounds?

For a bit more history, I plan on using Lapua bullets and their powder until I start swaging my own. I'd really like to get into custom bullets someday. Rifle is just a weatherby vanguard, with a 10x SS scope, but its hit everything I pointed it at out to 450m using wolf ammo.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[Farmland]

There is a good sticky note that can be helpful. I will be honest I'm a progressive press guy that just started reloading a few rifle calibers and the 44 mag on the Single Stage. So I had a lot of equipment in advance. I'm still adding to it.

I took a fast look at the kit and it will give you a good start. I will let everyone else add to your list but I would suggest a case trimmer. You could go on the cheap side and get the hand ones from Lee.

[Ruger4570]

For dies, why not just stick with RCBS? Their products are as good as any and better than a lot. Their customer service is surpassed by no one. Unless you are shooting Military brass, there isn't much to do with a primer pocket other than cleaning them. There are drills to "uniform" the flash holes, I have two, but I am a reloading freak kinda guy and have most everything made. I really am not convinced a lot of the stuff sold is actually important or even necessary. I think we tend to "create" a need for something based on a desire to have the "best". Unless you are a world class shooter or in compitition, most accessories may be of questionable value to you.
I had to sorta chuckle, you are getting an "Impact Bullet Puller"? How come? Are you PLANNING on making mistakes?
Most everything else you mention is fine I guess. A case trimmer is always good, but for the 45-70, most likely you will never need it.
As Farmland said, you can get a simple case trimmer from Lee which will work good enough, they also have a flash hole tool too.
When in doubt, stick with RCBS stuff, great quality and no junk or "
stupid" equipment.
Good luck with the reloading, it is a fun thing to do.

[Edward429451]

well...the more brass prep you do, the more consistent your ammo will be, especially your rifle cartridges. Trimming, flash hole uniforming/deburring tool.

Weighing the brass and bullets and segregating them according to weight helps a lot in consistency.

I've always been able to make good ammo but have noticed that my ammo quality took a leap when I got a Chrony and actually knew what my ammo was doing instead of guessing. Weeding out the less desirable loads even though I may have accidently shot a good group with it once that made me think it was good.

[Bud Helms]

Looks like a pretty good starting list.

I'd stay with RCBS dies too.

That is a nice starting kit. I see it in Cabela's for $289.99.

[oneounceload]

I would add some plastic ammo boxes that hold 50 each - you can build small batches and separate them for testing in the boxes. Add your components, looks good to go

[jamaica]

Bullet puller? If you wish. I have been loading for many years and never had a bullet puller.

You probably won't need a case trimmer right off the bat. Cases can be loaded several times before needing trimming.

You won't need any tools for the pimer pockets or flash holes for starting either. Add that stuff after you get some experience and want to try improving your groups.

I like RCBS dies too. Actually all the manufactures make good useable dies. I have an assortment. It depends on what was available the day I wanted them.

Have fun, be safe, its a great hobby.

[margiesex]

I'll be along side all those who are telling you the benefits of RCBS - nothing but praise from my end and their customer service is indeed awesome

Not to slow down your progress, but you said you want every shot consistency - have you thought of hand priming? Using a Lee auto prime, or the RCBS one, or one of the other ones out there?

Why? Well, for me it gives one more close look at each case. You have to handle each one - one at a time - in order to prime them. I can't tell you how often I've run across bad cases that way. Not bad like they'd blow my hand off, but bad like I won't reload them again!

That extra handling of the case is worth the time to me. I also deprime and "bell" the case mouth before I clean the cases - helps to cut down on the debris in the primer pocket.

Welcome to a great hobby!

If you think I can ever be of service, just email me direct - no problem.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both and soon!

[Doodlebugger45]

I have some Lee dies and some RCBS dies. They both work just fine. The Lees are a teeny bit cheaper plus they come with the shellholder (arghhh... I forgot about that last week when I bought some RCBS dies). For the 45-70 you might want to think about getting the Lee Factory crimp die. You will want to do a roll crimp on that one for sure. You can do it without the FCD but when you're just starting out, the FCD makes it a lot simpler to get the proper crimp just right.

You will probably start out weighing each and every powder charge. You might even do it all the time for the .308. But most likely you'll get tired of doing that eventually so you might want to buy a powder measure. I was pleasantly surprised at what a great job the Lee Perfect Powder Measure does. It was only a bit more than $20. It typically throws powder to within 0.1 gr of the desired weight which is good enough.

Like the others said, you won't need the trimmer right away and maybe never need the bullet puller, but they are good to have around anyway.

[mkl]

Looks like a pretty good starter list to me.

In regard to your dad's 45-70, that is a very popular caliber for Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS). Google for loads that are pleasant to shoot for fun and plinking purposes; the full-house 45-70 loads get not fun in a hurry.

I use 300 grain lead bullets and pistol powders in my 45-70 with velocities of around 1000-1300 fps. Fun to shoot, economical, and low recoil.

[semi_problomatic]

I'd had my heart set on that RCBS, went to Bass Pro to pick it up (I KNOW I can get it cheaper other places but I'm a hands on gimme now type of person) and there's the Lyman packages for 20 bucks more with digital scales and a case trimmer in the kit. (couple more goodies too) I'm in the army so I plan on swiping whatever M240 (7.62) brass i can. well I was planning on that but I've noticed that machine guns play merry hell on denting the cases so that idea might be out the window. Though I did pick up a hornady manual and the ABC's.

and about the bullet puller, yes I do plan on messing up because the second I DON'T plan on messing up I'm gonna be pulling apart a round with pliers or some such stuff cussing about not having a bullet puller. thanks for all your help, keep it coming!!

oh yeah... any advice on bullets and powder? I'm thinking CCI primers right now.

[Doodlebugger45]

LOL

For LR primers? Probably whatever you can get your hands on these days. They are hard to find around here. They will all work OK. CCI are fine, but if you run across another brand in your search for CCI, don't hesitate to grab 500 or so just to be safe. They might not be there if you return to the same store an hour later.

[wncchester]

I'm old, no point in being sensitive about it.

Your list is fine, you will certainly need it all eventually so might as well have it up front. Every thing said above is valid, but fact is, on average, a die is a die. They all are made to SAAMI specs, no more, no less.

What has not been mentioned is (1) at least a couple of loading blocks to fit each case head size you will load, (2) a powder funnel, (3) a powder measure and (4) a powder trickler (unless you go to one of the greatly over-priced digital dumpster systems), and (5) a stuck case remover. (You WILL get a few stuck cases!) For all I know, some of that stuff may well be included in the kit you mention but I ain't gonna take the time to look it up!

In view of the possiblity of breaking an impact bullet puller (one of the very few things I HAVE broken in some 45+ years of reloading, and a good thing to have by the way, if just to pull bullets from "experimental" loads that don't shoot well) I would prefer the RCBS model if only for it's "life time" warrantee.

[emcon5]

What has not been mentioned is (1) at least a couple of loading blocks to fit each case head size you will load, (2) a powder funnel, (3) a powder measure and (4) a powder trickler (unless you go to one of the greatly over-priced digital dumpster systems), and (5) a stuck case remover. (You WILL get a few stuck cases!) For all I know, some of that stuff may well be included in the kit you mention but I ain't gonna take the time to look it up!

Here is the RCBS kit:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=646599

This is the Lyman kit:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=283295

The RCBS kit comes with 1,2, and 3, plus a hand priming tool. A trickler is cheap, and for what it's worth, I have been loading for about 20 years and so far have not had a stuck case.

Unless I am looking at the wrong Lyman kit, that one does not come with a digital scale, and frankly that is a good thing. Digital scales are good if you want to know how much something weighs. A balance is better if you want to get a bunch of things to weigh exactly the same.

Of the 2, I would get the RCBS (as I mentioned in your other thread).

[Hydraulicman]

I have the RCBS kit.

They lyman looks like a better deal for rifle. It comes with a trimmer . Add a powder trickler and your set.

and a case gauge for your calibers.

[Blue]

I like the RCBS too but I have a lot of Lee Stuff also. The RCBS Kit you mention has a fine 505 Scale (Ohaus design) and is very reliable. IMHO the 505 beam scale would be a better place for you to start than with a Digital scale.

I would recommend the RCBS Collet Bullet Puller Die with Collets in the two sizes you mention. You "will" be pulling some. More of a controlled extraction IMHO.

If you want to address concentric seating and sizing it might be worth it to you to go with the RCBS Competition Carbide Die set in .308. With this one you can zero in and maintain the seating depth of your bullets. No need for case lube, either. Minimizes (some say eliminates) bullet/case offset angle when seating. You said you would be going for accuracy so why not start off here.

The Lyman E-Zee Case Length guage is a handy and quick tool to use while sorting and in conjunction with your caliper. It is machined to Maximum case lengths as recommended by SAAMI.

UncleNick put me on this site and I like it. Has helped me find the Optimal charge weights for several types of cartridges I use. Might be something to consider when working up loads on your new setup. http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/


The Rock Chucker is built for a lifetime and should serve you well.

Get a few more books and read them The Kit you are getting comes with the Speer # 14 book and it is an excellent one. Lyman # 49 is an excellent choice on your part. Get accustomed to comparing the recommendations in each.

This reloading process is addictive. Enjoy and take your time. Biggest mistake I have seen is that some folks get in too big a hurry. Check and re-check. Develop a rhythm that allows you to know where you are at at all times. And when you notice your concentration falling off stop. (This is when you will need the bullet puller).

Best to you.

[emcon5]

They lyman looks like a better deal for rifle. It comes with a trimmer .

And the RCBS kit comes with the hand priming tool. For his stated use, 308 bolt gun and 45-70 he probably won't be trimming much, and he can get set up with Lee hand case trimmers for about $15 total.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/casecon.html

In other words, he gets the RCBS kit and spends the extra $15 for the Lee trimmers, he ends up with the same capabilities of the Lyman kit, plus he gets the hand priming tool, and all for less money.

RCBS is the better deal.

[rather-b-huntin]

Don't listen to the guys whom question why you want a bullet puller. There are two types of reloaders: Those who have used a bullet puller, and those who have used one and won't admit it.

If wringing out as much accuracy as possible is your goal, get a Bullet Comparator. Not terribly expensive and unbelievable how much it'll increase accuracy. I've been loading for nearly 20 years and just started using one last year. Still not sure how I ever got by without it!!

[LuckyStrike]

I reload my own high accuracy 308 ammo that rivals Black Hills and Federal Gold. Your list is good, everything in it you can use. I recommend Sierra Match King bullets for accurate 308 ammo.

I strongly recommend you also pick up a:

Lee Collet Die for 308 (to go along with your regular RCBS dies)
Hand Priming tool (Hornady, Lee...)
Case Trimmer set .308 (Lee, should be under $10)
Primer Pocket cleaner (Lee)
Chronograph (Midwayusa about $80)
50 Rnd Boxes (bass pro shops $5)

[Hawg]

A hand priming tool is a definite plus. Mine's RCBS but Lee and Hornady make them too. I prefer CCI primers but will use Winchesters in a pinch.

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day. +1 for a chronograph.
I have not done enough loading to tell you too much. What I will sugest is that you consider the use of a chronograph. It can be used to proove the consistance of your reloads and loading process. Once you have a true velocity you can develope acurate trajectory charts.

[wncchester]

"I want to KNOW every round is EXACTLY the same using the BEST powders, bullets, primers etc. The only way to do that is to do it yourself."

As a follow up post, I want that too. Been reloading since '65, still trying to nail all that "BEST" stuff down and haven't even come close yet. You're a young guy, quick to learn I'm sure. When you get it right, please post it so the rest of us will know too! Good luck!

(This is gonna be fun to watch, guys! )

[confirmed shooter]

I"ve been reloading since 76, We are all still learning/ Neck size die,Lee is the best i have found, I like the lee dies anyway. The de-capers dont break. I dont crimp rifle loads. sierra balistic soft-ware is a must. any case trimmer. I think you have a good handle on the rest. lyman makes a real good trickle-dispense and scale. sierra is the go to bullet //CHARLIE SIERRA

[Ruger4570]

I'm gonna jump back in here one more time. I didn't notice "case lube" mentioned yet. Also, if you are going to be using Military brass you will need to get the crimp out of the primer pocket. I prefer a RCBS swedging tool as opposed to a drill or the crimp cutting tools. The RCBS tool will remove no metal and will actually reforn the primer pocket with a nicely rounded opening.
As far as powders and primers go, well, that will end up being YOUR challenge to find what is best for your gun. I have been looking for the perfect combination of bullets, primers and powders for all my guns since 1959 when I first started loading on an old Lyman Tru Line Jr.
Half the fun is experimenting anyways.
There are many other things you can buy to improve your reloading experience, but it looks like you have a pretty good start already.

[dmazur]

I'd include a Wilson's cartridge headspace gauge for the .308. I think they're $30 or so, so that isn't a major cost.

These things are really handy for setting up your resizing die so the resultant ammo is within SAAMI specifications. They also let you check case length after resizing to see if you need to trim.

These can both cause safety problems if they are ignored, so this gauge is a really, really good idea.