Reformed 308 brass...

[Jiggy300]

Hi, I'm new to the site and I am fairly new to reloading. I have started to reload some 308 ammo. I was gonna use it in my ruger 308 and a dpms ar-10, the brass I am using is different brands and was shot out of the dpms. The problem that I am having is I am having a heck of a time resizing/deprimming the brass it does not chamber in my ruger after being resized, the bolt handle will not go down.. I have trimmed and use one shot lube but the press stops about a half inch from the die and it's a struggle to finish it, like it will get stuck in the due but it doesn't. It's a hornady die and brand new and I did clean it before use. Any help or info will be great, thanks

[Chainsaw.]

Did you read the instructions for die adjustment? Sounds like the shoulder needs to be pushed back a touch.

What kind of press?

Sure your decapping pin isnt sitting to low?

Some cases just need more lube!

[Jiggy300]

Yes, hornady press, and have it adjusted right, shell holder is just touching the die. I even took the deprimming pin out of the die and tried it, same thing happens

[Dufus]

Try a different lube. No matter who says what, one shot just ain't that good.

[mehavey]

...shell holder is just touching the die.

We have met the enemy...

Screw the die down to firmly contact the shell-holder, and then 1/8 turn(+) more
Your press is "springing" with the sizing force applied, and this (pretty much) guarantees
the die doesn't actually separate from the shell-holder at the top of the upstroke.


ps: Also (note just above) change lube to something off-the-shelf like RCBS Case lube.
Less force --> less press spring.

[Jiggy300]

Thanks, I will give it a try.

[JeepHammer]

This is one of two of three problems ganging up on you,
You will have to figure out which two.

First off, the Ruger has a properly sized chamber, not big & sloppy to facilitate auto loading like the AR-10.
Not only is the AR-10 too big around, but the back of the case just above the extractor groove unsupported (all ARs have unsupported rear chambers, as well as most other types of auto loaders)
The lack of support for the rear of the case lets the case bloat/swell up.

This makes full length/small base resizing dies a must when you bolt rifle won't accept the bloated case...

The shell holder prevents the dies from reaching the base/head of the case,
While the guide taper/radius in the bottom of the die keeps the die from properly taking the bloat out of the case.

If you get a 'Small Base', Full Length sizing die, most times that will solve the 'Bloating' issue... but not always.

The decapping issue is probably either a short decapping pin, or an adjustment issue. Not all die makers have the same length decapping pins, some are shorter than others, and with older/thicker brass (especially military brass) the decapping pin sometimes isn't long enough.

By the time you screw the sizing ball/decapper rod down enough to get the primer out, the rod is hitting the bottom of the cas keeping the brass from properly bumping the shoulder back resulting in a 'Long' case for the chamber you are trying to fit it in.

When you hit this particular problem, either a longer decapping rod, which isn't always available form every die maker,
Or a universal decapping die which will decap about anything, then you size the brass in another step.

The third issue is AR rifles usually have LONG chambers, this is to facilitate the auto loading process.
When you fire a cartridge the shoulder gets pushed excessively forward, and has to be pushed a long way back into place for a more standard chamber, like your Ruger chamber.

This takes a STRONG PRESS to force that brass to conform to the die.
Flex in the handle, slop in the linkage, flex in the ram, stretch of the press frame & die movement all add up together (stacking of problems) to keep you from forming the brass...

What will help,
To bump the shoulder back just a 'Smidge' farther, use automotive feeler gauges between shell holder & brass, just under the brass headstamp.
This will let you force the brass into the die another few thousandths and might get you where you want to be. ($10 a set of blades, any auto parts store).

Calming over the press is a crude way to compensate for the flex/slop in the press, hard as heck on the press and doesn't produce consistant results,
But often times it will give you that extra few thousands you need to CHAMBER the brass...
I suggest a good quality iron or steel FRAME press, cast aluminum frames often just give up with no warning when you seriously over cam them.
You might get away with it for years, but then you get that sickening 'Pop'...

Some alternative ideas,
I hadn't heard of this for 40 years of reloading until recently, I tried it and it works...
Use a .30-06 sizing die to push case bloat out.
The shoulder/neck is far enough up to NOT contact your .308/7.62x51 shoulder neck, and you can grind off the bottom flair/taper until the die walls contact the bloat and push it back in where you want it.
Grind/file in SMALL amounts until die does what you are looking for and no more.
No decapping pin or sizer ball required... you are only pushing the case back into shape just above the extraction groove, nothing else.

----

This is WAY too expensive for small batch loaders... ($1,200 to $1,400)
There is a machine called a 'Case Pro' that rolls the bottom of the brass between two die plates pushing the lower bloat back in GENTLY where it belongs.
This machine also restores extraction groves & straightens extraction lips.

----

What I can't recommend MORE for you is a case gauge (LE Wilson) so you can compair factory rounds that fit with your sized cases, which will give you an idea of what is actually going on...
A case gauge will tell you VERY quickly where the case is out of specification, and where you need to 'Bump' it back into shape...

It also lets you compair fired cases, to let you know the differences between the two chambers you are shooting your ammo through, and how much they need to be reformed before they will interchange again.

A case gauge, a quality caliper, and a little simple math will tell you what you have and where EXACTLY you need to go.

[RC20]

Yep, I would be a bit more brief, same issue as on another site.

Trying to shoot the same brass in a semi auto and a bolt.

In this case he said he cold not get it to work, so have to bow to JeepHammer on that as it may be the base.

Simple answer is use different brass for different actions.

Trying to force the one down each time to meet both chambers results in worked brass and short lived brass.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...international/

[condor bravo]

It's common for cases to elongate some during the sizing process, resulting in what you have encountered with the difficult bolt closing, and the case shoulder needs to be set back some to obtain proper length and eliminate the bolt closing difficulty. This could be accomplished by screwing the sizing die down slightly per one of the above suggestions but do not overdo the camming over of the press handle. Let the force required be your guide.

Now if the above does not work there is another way to attack the problem but you will cringe at this and will not want to do it. And that is to grind off a few thousands from the base of the die. I know, sounds like you are ruining the die but not so. I've had to do that with at least a half dozen sizing dies in order for the shoulder portion of the die contact the case shoulder and push it back some. Grinding the base of the die is easily accomplished if you have a small grinding wheel that can be attached to an electric drill. Use the flat portion of the wheel to accomplish the small amount of grinding. Or purchase another die and see if it will do a proper sizing job. Or some may suggest grinding off some of the shell holder but that could weaken the holder.

Also as others have pointed out, One-shot lube is not the best and I would recommend the RCBS Case Lube 2. Sticking a case and pulling off the rim always ruins an otherwise good day.

[F. Guffey]

press stops about a half inch from the die and it's a struggle to finish it,

I will assume the ram stops 1/2 inch from the bottom of the die.
If it was the case causing the problem you would have to use a stuck case remover to remove the case from the die.

I would suggest you remove the case from the shell holder; and then raise the ram until the shell holder contacted the bottom of the die. After contact I suggest you lower the die 1/4 additional turn, that would be close to .034".

.034" is more than adequate for sizing 'tuff to size cases'. I am not the fan of reloaders jumping into reloading at a dead run. And then there is measuring cases; I believe a reloader should be able to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, I believe the reloader should be able to measure a fired case and a new factory unfired case and then be able to compare the measurements.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Yes, hornady press, and have it adjusted right, shell holder is just touching the die. I even took the deprimming pin out of the die and tried it, same thing happens

Removing the primer punch pin is one thing, if it gets in the way it will be rendered scrap. After you have removed the primer pin I suggest you raise the sizing ball. there is a chance the primer punch/sizing ball assemble is adjusted down to far and if hitting the bottom of the case. When that happens, even if you are using my no-name lube when the assemble hits the bottom of the case it locks out the die.

F. Guffey

[eastbank]

you need a better lube thats for sure, i use imperial sizing wax. eastbank.

[RC20]

The real key to the shoulder is to get the Hornady gauge set and then use it to check bump back.

I have my sizer above the shell holder and it still will bump a case back .004

You can't do it by feel, you need to measure it.

That means a decent micrometer and an adaptor and Hornady makes a low cost well done one.

My only variation is I made my own shoulder tool out of a Hornady .375 bullet ogive measurer (they fit the same adaptor)

It does not return the same values as a Hornady, doesn't matter, its mid shoulder and I can see the bump back.

I could have spent the few buck to get the Hornady complete shoulder set but as I am only need the one for the shoulders I do and I like to make those tools sometimes, so I did.

[Jiggy300]

Thanks guys, I think I will just use this brass for the dpms and use different for my other rifles with another 308 die set. I have to say everyone is very helpful and thanks again.

[Mobuck]

"Thanks guys, I think I will just use this brass for the dpms and use different for my other rifles with another 308 die set. I have to say everyone is very helpful and thanks again."

I use quite a bit of unknown history "range brass" and sometimes encounter cases that are so large that a "belt" begins to form as the case is sized. This stuff is trash as no amount of effort will make it suitable for future loading.
In some cases, even a small base sizer won't make it right since the brass springs back enough to choke a tight chamber. I have gone as far as sizing in a standard die followed by using a small base die but will truthfully say this is wasted effort unless the cases are pretty exotic.
FWIW
I'd take the sloppy chamber issue up with DPMS as this just isn't right. If that's not an option, maybe just shoot el-cheapo steel case ammo in it as it's already buggered anyway.
PS
Another option would using berdan primed brass cased ammo and toss the cases in the recycle bucket.

[F. Guffey]

Some alternative ideas,
I hadn't heard of this for 40 years of reloading until recently, I tried it and it works...
Use a .30-06 sizing die to push case bloat out.
The shoulder/neck is far enough up to NOT contact your .308/7.62x51 shoulder neck, and you can grind off the bottom flair/taper until the die walls contact the bloat and push it back in where you want it.
Grind/file in SMALL amounts until die does what you are looking for and no more.
No decapping pin or sizer ball required... you are only pushing the case back into shape just above the extraction groove, nothing else.

Bloat? I have never heard of case bloat and I have never heard of anyone using a 30/06 die on...wait a minute, it is all coming back to me..now I remember" there was this this forum member that claimed the 308W was nothing more than a small 30/06. He even posted pictures of his 30/06 rifle with a 308 W round chambered in it and everyone bought into it except me.

I would suggest measuring before taking this stuff seriously. The taper on the 308 W is less than the taper on the 30/06. If a reloader decides to size the 308W case in the 30/06 die thinking nothing will happen to the shoulder and neck think again; please.

The 308 W case is larger in diameter at the case body/shoulder juncture than the 30/06 at the same point when measured from the case head: Meaning when the 308 w case is sized in the 30/06 the shoulder and neck of the 308 W case will move forward when the case body is sized down.

SIZED DOWN: What does that mean? the diameter of the 308W case at the case body/juncture is .014" larger in diameter than the 30/06 case at that point.

Many shooters have mistakenly chambered 308 W ammo in a 30/06 chamber and then pulled the trigger. Most did not have a clue but when the 308 W is chambered in a 30/06 chamber the large case body/shoulder juncture diameter allows the case to 'head space', and for those that are curious the case will be ejected with no neck and a very short shoulder and; STILL! RELOADERS BELIEVE THE SHOULDER MOVED!

F. Guffey

[ed308]

Thats what I do..., keep my .308 bolt brass separate from my AR10 brass. A small base sizer die will usually fix the problem and is usually required for reloading ammunition to be used in automatic semi-automatic, pump, slide and some lever-action rifles. The small based sizer die resizes the brass all the down. Small base means that the body of the case is sized to the minimum end of SAAMI Specifications. But make sure you don't have one already.

[F. Guffey]

Ed,

The small based sizer die resizes the brass all the down

The small base die means the base of the die is smaller in diameter than the full length sizing die. We are talking about the diameter of the hole. The shell holder prevents the base/head of the case from being sized; the deck height of the shell holder is .125" meaning nothing below .125: can bet sized.

And then there is what most would believe is busy work, I think nothing of turning a case abound and sticking the big end of the case into a die first. In the perfect world the case head is smaller in diameter than the opening of the die. But there are exceptions, I have two 30/06 full length sizing dies that try to keep every case I shove into them. The opening measures .465", for some reason my 30/06 case heads measure .470"+/-a few.

I have small base dies, I have forming dies, I use the forming dies more than I use small base dies.

F. Guffey

[Jiggy300]

So I went and bought the RCBS lube pad and lube and it works way better, no issues.

Next question I have is when are you suppose to trim the brass, the books I have say to trim before resizing, when I did I checked after resizing and the length was longer and I had to trim again, just curious what everyone else does.

[DaleA]

So I went and bought the RCBS lube pad and lube and it works way better, no issues.

Thanks for the update. Sometimes folk just us scratching our heads and wondering.

If used the RCBS pad and lube for years and years and thousands and thousands of rounds because I didn't know any better. Worked for me and I still use it.

[RickD1225]

Resize, check length, trim if necessary. Resizing can lengthen a case. Remember to remove lube before checking size if using a case guage.