Annealing???

[Jerry45]

Bottle of 650° Tempilaq arrived yesterday so out I go to the garage this morning to anneal some 06 brasses and see how it works. This is the first time I’ve done any annealing but the brass that I have seen it done to has always had purplish looking necks. Mine did not turn purple looking so I need to know if what I did was correct.

I put a little Tempilaq inside the necks. Holding the shell by the rim I rotated the neck of the case through the flame of a Mapgass torch. One quick full rotation the Tempilaq disappeared. When I dipped the neck in a can of cold water it sizzled so I believe it was hot enough and that the cases I’ve see that were purple were just overly heated. What you think?

[GP100man]

It`s the duration that turns the brass a different color & as long as the temp is reached I feel it`s done .

I anneal rifle brass by setting my lead pot to 650* then dippin the necks a 4 count .

revolver I do just enuff to soften it a bit .

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know what Tempilaq is.
I anneal by putting my shells in a tray of water about half way up the length of the case. I then heat the necks with a propane torch. When they turn red I tip over into the water. Nothing scientific about it and doesn't take long. Necks do turn dark but my feeling on this is "so what?". Procedure works and my brass seems to last indefinitely. I have pistol brass that has gone through scores of reloadings and rifle brass that has gone through dozens.

[tkofoid]

Jerry, You are certainly on the right track. Instead of placing the tempilaq inside the neck, I place a very light band of it around the case about 1/4" below the shuolder. I spin the round concentrating the heat on the neck area. when the tempilaq turns color,it is good to go. The brass usually takes on that nice blue-ish color like Lapua brass has when it is new. (I have a hunch your heat range is good,but maybe a little light on the 'time'.) You do not have to drop the brass in water. I simply drop mine on a towel. Good luck and keep going. You will receive the desired results.

[Civil War Life]

I was under the impression that heated metal dropped into water would make it brittle, not soft. I thought the best method was to heat then let it cool slowly in air. Am I all wet?

[Jerry45]

Tkofoid thanks. I was following instructions read on another forum. After doing it, your way sounds easier to detect the change in the Tempilaq and I wasn’t crazy about dipping the cases in water. I have to wait for them to dry. To make sure the inside was dry I planned on waiting a full day. Your way I could start loading as soon and I did the last case, starting with to the ones that had already cooled of course.

Civil War Life, now that you mention it I believe you could be right. At least I believe that’s how they “temper” steel and I believe it “IS” to make it “stiffer/harder”. And I was following “expert” advice again.

I think I’ll redo the ones I did today tomorrow following Tkofoid's method.

[NESHOOTER]

As I have done this as well, but before I ever started I wanted also to be sure. I also had the understanding that dropping into water would allow them to become brittle..... however this is not true for brass while heating the brass the prior heat applied to (shooting the round off in gun) exposes the neck to excessive heat and unevenly at that and when it cools it has arranged the element of microscopic makeup to separate its molecular cell. And when reheating while annealing you entwine (heat together and bine) the molecular instead of allowing to cool unevenly pushing them into water removes odd cool down. And the result is a softer not brittle brasscase... here is a link to a reference I came across hope it helps....http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html.

[Jerry45]

The more I learn the more I realize just how much I don't know.

[Ideal Tool]

Hello, as concerning quenching metals to harden..this is for carbon steel..the quenching of brass really isn't needed once the annealing temp. is reached...However, it does serve a very important function..to keep that heat from going down into the head area of case and softening this critical area.

[oneoldsap]

Rifleman1776 does it exactly the way I have been doing it for 40+ years , it's a simple task that gets over thought .

[Jerry45]

How long do you let the brass dry befor sizing and loading?

[snuffy]

Bad info above!

You MUST quench the brass in cold water to hold it at the soft level. Failure to do so will result in the whole case becoming soft. You CANNOT let that happen. The base must remain hard to withstand the pressures of firing. Some methods for annealing have the person holding the base in his fingers. When the base gets too hot to hold onto, he drops it in cold water.

Now, those that say let it cool gradually, try picking up one of those cases after say 2 minutes. Can you without burning your fingers? No? then the base of the brass case has been annealed. It will burst at max pressures! Get the neck hot enough to anneal, the base will get too hot by heat conduction.

Brass does not harden by being heated and suddenly cooled,(quenched). Only steel reacts that way.

[dahermit]

I was under the impression that heated metal dropped into water would make it brittle, not soft. I thought the best method was to heat then let it cool slowly in air. Am I all wet?

No, just misinformed. High carbon steel must be quenched to harden, allowed to cool slowly to soften. That is not so with brass. The only way brass hardens is "work hardening"(beaten, hammered, bent,). The only way it softens is with heat. But unlike steel, it needs not be quenched. However, the neck of the cartridge is the only thing that should be annealed (softened), the body and the head must be protected from heat.

Note to Snuffy: Not just steel...there are other heat treatable metals, that harden when quenched. Heat treatable aluminum?

[dahermit]

Rifleman1776 does it exactly the way I have been doing it for 40+ years , it's a simple task that gets over thought .

The problem with his method is that the case can get too hot and soften the shoulder of the case causing it to prolapse when sizing the case. Also, getting the neck to red heat is getting it unnecessarily too hot. Brass anneals at a lower temperature than red heat...that is why those other guys are using crayon type temperature indicators. They are only using enough heat to anneal; no more.

[Jerry45]

[zplinker]

The best explanation of the whole process is covered well here:



http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[GP100man]

I found on annealing straight walled revolver cases the softening takes place way before any discoloration takes place !

& while the case nneds not to be quenched the body & base needs to be protected from being annealed !!

The cases in this pic are annealed 357 mag cases & you may see a tad of discoloration on some but it was the variation of my counting !

[Jerry45]

After the discussion here I decide to redo my cases tonight. I put a stripe of Tempilaq at the lower edge of the shoulder. I held the case at the base in my bare hand. When Tempilaq liquefied I quenched the neck and shoulder in cold water. The cases now have a nice dark color on neck and shoulder. By George I think I got it.

[cookhj]

here's a great thread on annealing:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...88#Post1269188

[Clark]

I did enough reading and attempting to anneal case necks with different methods, and I give up.

No more annealing case necks for me.

[Jerry45]

Clark, Tkofoid’s way seems to work pretty well. Who knows what the future will bring but it's pretty easy and seems to have done a good job.

[oneoldsap]

dahermit , It can be done wrong , like any other process ! Fortunately I have been able to outsmart the brass for 40+ years so far , with no problems . If you stand one of my cases next to a new Lake City Match case they look like twins ! Are they doing it wrong too ?

[Ike666]

There's a good video on ammosmith.com that demonstrates a striaght forward method.

http://www.ammosmith.com/rifle-reloa...ling-brass.php

I've followed this method for about a year and it has worked great.