Ultrasonic cleaner topic again

Woody3 · March 17, 2011, 09:43 PM

Hello all,
Do you think a 3 pint (1 3/4 quart) ultrasonic cleaner would be large enough to handle most brass cleaning needs? I usually reload around 500 rounds of 40, 9mm or .223 in one sitting. I know it probably won't do all the .223 at one time but should handle the other two in one cycle. Right?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Woody

Clark · March 17, 2011, 10:39 PM

I have given up on cleaning brass with my ultrasonic cleaner.
There is a transducer in the center of the bottom of the tank, and inside case necks that have the transducer pointed right up them for 15 seconds are clean.

I still use the ultrasonic cleaner for getting Copper solvent out of Bronze brushes.

Woody3 · March 18, 2011, 12:16 AM

Has everyone experienced the same problem?

snuffy · March 18, 2011, 10:36 AM

This one? If so, then it works just fine.

Woody3 · March 18, 2011, 11:09 AM

Thank you for the pictures snuffy!!! A picture is worth a 1000 words and those shells look sparkly clean.

Maybe it depends on the quality of the machine or the product one uses?
Snuffy, what solution do you use?
Clark, what solution do/did you use?

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2011, 11:51 AM

I run 5% citric acid powder (by weight) plus a teaspoon per gallon of Dawn Essentials (the clear, scent-free, no additives version of Dawn used to clean oil off birds in a spill). My tank is 2.5 gallons and has a heater I use. Still, it's 30-45 minutes before all the crust is gone from the primer pockets. But 100's at a time are possible in that space.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

Woody3 · March 18, 2011, 02:33 PM

Thank you unclenick. That's what I was looking for. Have any of you had any luck with the "popular" reloading brands cleaning solutions? If so which one?

Clark · March 18, 2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Woody3

Clark, what solution do/did you use?

If I had a $1,000 grudge bet at the range that I could shoot a smaller single 5 shot group than some other guy, I might hold in my hand, one case at a time, the necks down over the transducer in the ultrasonic cleaner tank.

Yes, I could do 5 6mmBR cases in the ultrasonic, but not 5,000 .223 cases.

For the 5,000 .223 cases for shooting rodents, I would run 200 case batches in my vibratory cleaners with Walnut of corn media with paper towel strips 1" wide for 12 hours.

Next I would run them through my high speed Thumbler Tumbler model B with 5 pounds of Stainless steel media .041" x .255", Ivory dishwashing liquid, Lemishine, and hot water to the top for 12 hours.

Next I would re chamfer the necks inside and out if they needed it.

wncchester · March 18, 2011, 07:08 PM

"Do you think a 3 pint (1 3/4 quart) ultrasonic cleaner would be large enough to handle most brass cleaning needs?"

Yep.

"I usually reload around 500 rounds of 40, 9mm...but should handle..in one cycle. Right?"

Nope.

It will probably get them all wet but, unless you have a commercal unit, the electronics will be far to weak to 'clean' more than maybe a couple dozen, at best, at once. And you will have to physically restart it every 6-10 minutes after a cool-down/shut off period for maybe 3-4 cycles for that.

Get a real tumbler and live with the light carbon stain inside the cases, they don't need to be surgically clean anyway. Use Unclenicks formula to remove tarnish and corrosion.

If you just gotta have spotless brass, get a rotary tumbler and use the stainless steel media with soapy water.

Woody3 · March 18, 2011, 08:14 PM

Alright, all the details, I have a regular tumbler set up but hate all the dust it creates. I've tried the dryer sheet trick but still to much dust for my liking.

With the above posts and some of my own research I've decided to get a thumblers tumbler. With that being said, can someone point me in the right direction for some stainless steel media? I've found some online but don't know if I'm comparing apples to apples or not. Is all stainless media the same? It looks like some have rounded over edges and some have sharper edges.
What's a good price for the media?
How much will I need?

Woody

capreppy · March 18, 2011, 08:38 PM

Pellets PLC

Call and tell them you are looking for SS media for a Rotary Tumbler. They'll know what you want and set you up. There are several threads on several forums regarding them, the quality of the product and their very low pricing (I believe [don't quote me since I can't find the thread] that it is basically a buck a pound and you'll need 5lbs).

When I get the money for a Thumlers Tumbler, I WILL be getting my SS media from them.

Woody3 · March 18, 2011, 08:49 PM

Thank you capreppy.
I think I'm all set. Thanks for all the replies.
Woody

**Unclenick** · March 19, 2011, 01:13 PM

Woody,

Just to follow up, no I haven't run any of the various commercial formulae. I experimented with general purpose ultrasonic cleaners, TSP, with Slip 2000's water-based gun cleaner (one of the better things I tried for the carbon) and with Zep citrus cleaner diluted 1:1 with water (that works OK), but the old 5% citric acid arsenal cleaner continued to do best for me, and the Dawn did a good job of suspending the removed dirt and carbon so I could just look in and see what had been removed. The heated solution actually only takes about 15 seconds to reduce the verdis gris you saw on those cases (they were in flood), but you can do that without resorting to an ultrasonic. Just dip and shake.

It's the carbon and especially the hard crusty carbon in the primer pockets that takes time to clean off. Like Clark, I think this is mostly not worth the effort, unless you are working with a small number of cases. I just had to try it, since I had the big ultrasonic cleaner anyway. The plus side is you get done in a known period of time and don't have to separate stainless media from the cases afterward. But for larger numbers, the stainless is the way to go.

As a result of the experimenting, I've come to like the citric acid and now use it with stainless media because it passivates the stainless at the same time it deoxidizes the brass, so you don't get rust spots. This matters especially if you accidentally get some steel cases in whose iron then contaminates the pins. I just toss a couple of heaping tablespoons of the citric acid powder into the Thumbler along with the detergent and water. This is in lieu of Lemi Shine (which I've not tried, BTW, so I can't really give you a comparison, but citirc acid powder is also an acidic water softener so it may be a case of six of one, half-dozen of the other). The Zep citrus cleaner also brightens the brass, but it reacts with citric acid so you can't get a successful mix of the two.

I have one more round of Ultrasonic experiments to do. I've tried, unsuccessfully, a couple of carbon-softening pre-soaks prior to the ultrasonic treatment. It still took the full time to really clear the primer pockets. If I manage to get one of these experiments to work, such that the ultrasonic can finish the final cleaning in, say, five minutes or so, I'll put up a post or a new thread on that, as it would start to make the ultrasonic a serious time saver. But so far, the crust remains recalcitrant.

amamnn · March 19, 2011, 04:27 PM

I do not use my ultrasonic cleaner to clean brass.
I do not care to decap the brass before cleaning as this adds a step to my process in most cases.
I do not have a problem with dust when using my tumbler as it resides in my barn near a window that can be opened when separating the media from the brass.
I do not use a lot of crap to tumble brass just walnut media (last bought 18 pounds in 1998 and have 5 pounds left) and Bon Ami.
Ultrasonic cleaners do not remove the worst of lead copper and powder fouling from my handguns, so I gave up on them for that purpose I used several commercial cleaners as I do not care to immerse my brass in acids which do affect the ductlity of the brass.
The best ultrasonic cleaning solution I have used is made by Shooter's Choice, and it does remove light fouling from barrels, but the nasty stuff on a revolver cylinder face and around the forcing cone is still there. The best thing I have found to remove THAT crap is a Lead Away cloth.

I have found a really great use for my ultrasonic cleaner. Let me say at this point that it is not one of the cheapies, but a pretty nice one with a heater and zillions of watts and an oversized transducer but I am not going to go root out the papers to say just what the specs are. Anyway--I think the US cleaners are great for cleaning and oiling bolts. I throw my AR and bench rifle bolts into the US cleaner every 5th firing and let them stew for an hour then remove then and blow then out with compressed air and then run them through again for a half hour in an oil bath---works great and saves a lot of PITA bolt disassembly.--other than that Ultrasonic is an ultra waste of money.

larry60 · March 19, 2011, 10:17 PM

I recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaner I am not satisfied with the results yet but I have not given up on it . The problem I am having is with the primer pockets. My first try was with 100 or so 40 S&W case using one half white vinegar and one half water. I ran them though four cycles and rinsed them off in tap water. The recipe I got of the internet said to put them in water that had baking soda in it but I could not find any in the cupboard so I skipped this step. It was a big mistake, they all ended up stained and turned a pale green. The cases had cleaned very well but the primer pockets were untouched. I tried 250 45acp at one time and after 2 hrs of 8 min. cycles they were clean inside and out but again the primer pockets were untouched. Now I am cleaning 50 at a time for 4 cycles and getting new looking cases inside and out with about a quarter of the primer pockets like new and the rest needing more hand cleaning. I picked up some Hornady one shot today but have not used it yet. The cases that come out clean makes me want this to work they are great. So I am going to try other cleaning solutions until it works or its obvious I am never going to be satisfied with it.

**Unclenick** · March 20, 2011, 12:50 PM

Larry,

The vinegar is the old NRA cleaning formula to shake brass in by hand. I don't like that vinegar activates the surface enough to do that staining, as it means you are getting at least microscopic etching. Testing has shown the cases do just fine (are not weakened), but it bothers me anyway. The citric acid formula does not cause staining, as it seems mainly to attack oxides.

I don't like to bother with sodium bicarbonate solution, either. That's an extra step. A quick spray with Formula 409 will knock the acids out in a heartbeat, be it cases, a cold blue touch-up, or a new Parkerizing job. You then have to rinse it off, of course, but you have to do that with baking soda, too. I'm not at all certain that this will prevent tarnishing once the vinegar etch has been done, though. I think you'd have to use oil for that. Maybe spray on some case lube for resizing, then let the sizing die iron the surface out.

Woody3 · March 23, 2011, 03:11 PM

Ordered my Thumblers tumbler and ss media today. Hurry up and get here!!! I just got a couple thousand .223 cases that need cleaning.

larry60 · March 23, 2011, 07:02 PM

Unclenick
Thank you for the information, I switched to Hornady's One Shot ultrasonic cleaner and it does a much better job on the primer pockets than I was getting from the half and half vinegar and water. But there is no way I am ever going to get them clean doing more than a 100 40S&W or 45acp at a time and then it takes at least 3 cycles. I like the like new cases I get from this process and will keep using it. But anyone expecting better than this I think will be disaqpointed.

March 17, 2011, 09:43 PM	#1
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Ultrasonic cleaner topic again Hello all, Do you think a 3 pint (1 3/4 quart) ultrasonic cleaner would be large enough to handle most brass cleaning needs? I usually reload around 500 rounds of 40, 9mm or .223 in one sitting. I know it probably won't do all the .223 at one time but should handle the other two in one cycle. Right? Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Woody __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry Last edited by Woody3; March 18, 2011 at 08:21 PM.

March 18, 2011, 12:16 AM	#3
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Has everyone experienced the same problem? __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 18, 2011, 10:36 AM	#4
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	This one? If so, then it works just fine. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

March 18, 2011, 11:09 AM	#5
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Thank you for the pictures snuffy!!! A picture is worth a 1000 words and those shells look sparkly clean. Maybe it depends on the quality of the machine or the product one uses? Snuffy, what solution do you use? Clark, what solution do/did you use? __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 18, 2011, 11:51 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I run 5% citric acid powder (by weight) plus a teaspoon per gallon of Dawn Essentials (the clear, scent-free, no additives version of Dawn used to clean oil off birds in a spill). My tank is 2.5 gallons and has a heater I use. Still, it's 30-45 minutes before all the crust is gone from the primer pockets. But 100's at a time are possible in that space. BEFORE: AFTER: __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 17, 2011, 10:39 PM	#2
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have given up on cleaning brass with my ultrasonic cleaner. There is a transducer in the center of the bottom of the tank, and inside case necks that have the transducer pointed right up them for 15 seconds are clean. I still use the ultrasonic cleaner for getting Copper solvent out of Bronze brushes.

March 18, 2011, 02:33 PM	#7
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Thank you unclenick. That's what I was looking for. Have any of you had any luck with the "popular" reloading brands cleaning solutions? If so which one? __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 18, 2011, 07:08 PM	#9
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Do you think a 3 pint (1 3/4 quart) ultrasonic cleaner would be large enough to handle most brass cleaning needs?" Yep. "I usually reload around 500 rounds of 40, 9mm...but should handle..in one cycle. Right?" Nope. It will probably get them all wet but, unless you have a commercal unit, the electronics will be far to weak to 'clean' more than maybe a couple dozen, at best, at once. And you will have to physically restart it every 6-10 minutes after a cool-down/shut off period for maybe 3-4 cycles for that. Get a real tumbler and live with the light carbon stain inside the cases, they don't need to be surgically clean anyway. Use Unclenicks formula to remove tarnish and corrosion. If you just gotta have spotless brass, get a rotary tumbler and use the stainless steel media with soapy water.

March 18, 2011, 08:14 PM	#10
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Alright, all the details, I have a regular tumbler set up but hate all the dust it creates. I've tried the dryer sheet trick but still to much dust for my liking. With the above posts and some of my own research I've decided to get a thumblers tumbler. With that being said, can someone point me in the right direction for some stainless steel media? I've found some online but don't know if I'm comparing apples to apples or not. Is all stainless media the same? It looks like some have rounded over edges and some have sharper edges. What's a good price for the media? How much will I need? Woody __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 18, 2011, 08:38 PM	#11
capreppy Member Join Date: February 5, 2011 Location: North Fort Worth, TX (Saginaw) Posts: 44	Pellets PLC Call and tell them you are looking for SS media for a Rotary Tumbler. They'll know what you want and set you up. There are several threads on several forums regarding them, the quality of the product and their very low pricing (I believe [don't quote me since I can't find the thread] that it is basically a buck a pound and you'll need 5lbs). When I get the money for a Thumlers Tumbler, I WILL be getting my SS media from them.

March 18, 2011, 08:49 PM	#12
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Thank you capreppy. I think I'm all set. Thanks for all the replies. Woody __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 19, 2011, 01:13 PM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Woody, Just to follow up, no I haven't run any of the various commercial formulae. I experimented with general purpose ultrasonic cleaners, TSP, with Slip 2000's water-based gun cleaner (one of the better things I tried for the carbon) and with Zep citrus cleaner diluted 1:1 with water (that works OK), but the old 5% citric acid arsenal cleaner continued to do best for me, and the Dawn did a good job of suspending the removed dirt and carbon so I could just look in and see what had been removed. The heated solution actually only takes about 15 seconds to reduce the verdis gris you saw on those cases (they were in flood), but you can do that without resorting to an ultrasonic. Just dip and shake. It's the carbon and especially the hard crusty carbon in the primer pockets that takes time to clean off. Like Clark, I think this is mostly not worth the effort, unless you are working with a small number of cases. I just had to try it, since I had the big ultrasonic cleaner anyway. The plus side is you get done in a known period of time and don't have to separate stainless media from the cases afterward. But for larger numbers, the stainless is the way to go. As a result of the experimenting, I've come to like the citric acid and now use it with stainless media because it passivates the stainless at the same time it deoxidizes the brass, so you don't get rust spots. This matters especially if you accidentally get some steel cases in whose iron then contaminates the pins. I just toss a couple of heaping tablespoons of the citric acid powder into the Thumbler along with the detergent and water. This is in lieu of Lemi Shine (which I've not tried, BTW, so I can't really give you a comparison, but citirc acid powder is also an acidic water softener so it may be a case of six of one, half-dozen of the other). The Zep citrus cleaner also brightens the brass, but it reacts with citric acid so you can't get a successful mix of the two. I have one more round of Ultrasonic experiments to do. I've tried, unsuccessfully, a couple of carbon-softening pre-soaks prior to the ultrasonic treatment. It still took the full time to really clear the primer pockets. If I manage to get one of these experiments to work, such that the ultrasonic can finish the final cleaning in, say, five minutes or so, I'll put up a post or a new thread on that, as it would start to make the ultrasonic a serious time saver. But so far, the crust remains recalcitrant. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 19, 2011, 04:27 PM	#14
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	I do not use my ultrasonic cleaner to clean brass. I do not care to decap the brass before cleaning as this adds a step to my process in most cases. I do not have a problem with dust when using my tumbler as it resides in my barn near a window that can be opened when separating the media from the brass. I do not use a lot of crap to tumble brass just walnut media (last bought 18 pounds in 1998 and have 5 pounds left) and Bon Ami. Ultrasonic cleaners do not remove the worst of lead copper and powder fouling from my handguns, so I gave up on them for that purpose I used several commercial cleaners as I do not care to immerse my brass in acids which do affect the ductlity of the brass. The best ultrasonic cleaning solution I have used is made by Shooter's Choice, and it does remove light fouling from barrels, but the nasty stuff on a revolver cylinder face and around the forcing cone is still there. The best thing I have found to remove THAT crap is a Lead Away cloth. I have found a really great use for my ultrasonic cleaner. Let me say at this point that it is not one of the cheapies, but a pretty nice one with a heater and zillions of watts and an oversized transducer but I am not going to go root out the papers to say just what the specs are. Anyway--I think the US cleaners are great for cleaning and oiling bolts. I throw my AR and bench rifle bolts into the US cleaner every 5th firing and let them stew for an hour then remove then and blow then out with compressed air and then run them through again for a half hour in an oil bath---works great and saves a lot of PITA bolt disassembly.--other than that Ultrasonic is an ultra waste of money. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

March 19, 2011, 10:17 PM	#15
larry60 Member Join Date: February 3, 2011 Posts: 46	I recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaner I am not satisfied with the results yet but I have not given up on it . The problem I am having is with the primer pockets. My first try was with 100 or so 40 S&W case using one half white vinegar and one half water. I ran them though four cycles and rinsed them off in tap water. The recipe I got of the internet said to put them in water that had baking soda in it but I could not find any in the cupboard so I skipped this step. It was a big mistake, they all ended up stained and turned a pale green. The cases had cleaned very well but the primer pockets were untouched. I tried 250 45acp at one time and after 2 hrs of 8 min. cycles they were clean inside and out but again the primer pockets were untouched. Now I am cleaning 50 at a time for 4 cycles and getting new looking cases inside and out with about a quarter of the primer pockets like new and the rest needing more hand cleaning. I picked up some Hornady one shot today but have not used it yet. The cases that come out clean makes me want this to work they are great. So I am going to try other cleaning solutions until it works or its obvious I am never going to be satisfied with it.

March 20, 2011, 12:50 PM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Larry, The vinegar is the old NRA cleaning formula to shake brass in by hand. I don't like that vinegar activates the surface enough to do that staining, as it means you are getting at least microscopic etching. Testing has shown the cases do just fine (are not weakened), but it bothers me anyway. The citric acid formula does not cause staining, as it seems mainly to attack oxides. I don't like to bother with sodium bicarbonate solution, either. That's an extra step. A quick spray with Formula 409 will knock the acids out in a heartbeat, be it cases, a cold blue touch-up, or a new Parkerizing job. You then have to rinse it off, of course, but you have to do that with baking soda, too. I'm not at all certain that this will prevent tarnishing once the vinegar etch has been done, though. I think you'd have to use oil for that. Maybe spray on some case lube for resizing, then let the sizing die iron the surface out. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 23, 2011, 03:11 PM	#17
Woody3 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Posts: 37	Ordered my Thumblers tumbler and ss media today. Hurry up and get here!!! I just got a couple thousand .223 cases that need cleaning. __________________ Keep your head low and your powder dry

March 23, 2011, 07:02 PM	#18
larry60 Member Join Date: February 3, 2011 Posts: 46	Unclenick Thank you for the information, I switched to Hornady's One Shot ultrasonic cleaner and it does a much better job on the primer pockets than I was getting from the half and half vinegar and water. But there is no way I am ever going to get them clean doing more than a 100 40S&W or 45acp at a time and then it takes at least 3 cycles. I like the like new cases I get from this process and will keep using it. But anyone expecting better than this I think will be disaqpointed.