Pistol Caliber

Jeffly · February 9, 2000, 02:55 PM

Can anyone tell me if you can hunt deer with a .357 mag. rifle, the states I would be most interested in would be on the east coast from Va. south. Thanks J

Robert the41MagFan · February 9, 2000, 04:58 PM

Yes you can! Here is a article from sixguns.com. It is more than enough caliber to do the job. It is all in shot placement.

http://www.earp.com/Levhan.html

Robert

cjb · February 10, 2000, 01:52 PM

Rifle hell!
Ikilled a six point last year with a Taurus model 608 8" and a 2-7 scope.
The shot was at about 35 yards ( my max with a .357 mag handgun) The 158 gr. H.P. took out the lungs and it dropped dead in it's tracks! Like the .357mag rifle? Buy one! Practice, and know your limitations with the weapon!
CALVIN
" I'M THE NRA! "

Desertscout · February 12, 2000, 08:33 AM

Don't ever take legal advice from a BBS. While those that give it mean well, they are not always accurate and YOU are the one taking the risk.
Go to NRA's homepage and go to NRA-ILA and lok up state laws. These are pretty accurate if you want to read the laws word-for-word, go to your state statutes. They are available on the web or at your law library.
Don't take a LEO's word for it either unless you presonally know him. They have about a million laws to memorize and unless they happen to be firearms enthusiasts, they may very well tell you what they THINK it should be.

------------------
*******
DJ
[email protected]

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
--George Washington

radom · February 12, 2000, 08:51 PM

Legal here in oregon. 22 center fire and larger for deer,24 and larger for elk. Personaly I prefer the Smith .41 due to the extra thump.

Ankeny · February 13, 2000, 03:08 AM

The .357 magnum is not legal for any big game in Wyoming.

bergie · February 13, 2000, 11:22 AM

Desertscout had it right, don't take legal advice from a bulletin board, check with the state fish & wildlife departments for where you want to hunt. Make sure they hear .357 mag RIFLE. Many states have minimum power requirements rather than min. caliber, or some have a combination of both. In some of these states, cartridges that meet the requirements for handgun will not be legal for hunting when used in a rifle, and vice versa.
An example is here in NE, a handgun must deliver at least 400 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yds. A rifle must have at least 900 ft/lbs at 100 yds.
.357 mag makes the cutoff for handguns but falls way short if you want to shoot it out of a rifle. Even a .44 mag falls short (depending on load) out of a rifle even though a nice little .44 mag carbine would be a great brush gun.

Good luck,
Bergie

Robert the41MagFan · February 13, 2000, 01:57 PM

A handloaded 180 grain bullet fired from a levergun will travel at over 1900 FPS. That translates to over 1500 pound feet of energy at the barrel and above 1000 pound feet at 100 yards. All that 180gr bullet has to do is about 400 pound feet of energy and it will drop ANY size deer.

Robert

bergie · February 13, 2000, 03:40 PM

Robert,
I'm not going to dispute your figures. I know that a .357 is plenty for deer, having used it myself. Some laws don't make a whole lot of sense. I was using the laws in my state as an example as to what may or may not be legal in some states, after reminding Jeffly the importance of checking with the individual state's regulations. Some states may permit it others may not.
The only time I ever checked into it I was simply using ballistic tables in the SHOOTER'S BIBLE, looking up the cartridges in both handgun and rifle ballistic tables, and comparing the energy levels to the law as it is written here in NE. Reviewing the only 2 listings I could find for .357 out of a rifle, Federal has a listing for a 180 grn at 1550 fps out of an 18" barrel, which translates to 535 ft/lbs at 100 yds. There is also a listing for a Winchester 158grn at 1830 fps out of a 20" barrel for 715 ft/lbs at 100 yds. While either of these are enough to put down a deer, they do not meet the legal requirements for the state where I hunt. About half of the .44 loads listed for use in rifles didn't make my state's min. required energy levels for rifles either. While handloaded ammo may be able to get your energy levels over the required IN MY STATE 900 ft/lbs at 100 yds, you better hope that you don't get checked by a game warden (who may not be all that up on ballistics) or you will be hiring professional ballisticians and/or physicists, renting a range and hiring somebody to certify the loading and chrono readings, along with a damn good lawyer to convince the judge that you shouldn't have your firearm (and maybe your truck and any other equipment used on the hunt) confiscated, your hunting rights revoked, damages charged, and a fine levied against you.
Don't take legal advice off a bulletin board (unless someone is cautioning not to do something without checking with your own local legal authorities)

Bergie

Desertscout · February 13, 2000, 06:27 PM

You're not going to safely get 1900 fps with a 180 bullet out of any .357 magnum firearm.

The question wasn't whether or not the cartridge is capable of taking deer but is it legal.

In NM, ANY centerfire rifle or handgun is legal for deer and ANY centerfire rifle or handgun over .24 caliber is legal for elk.
No energy requirements on either

------------------
*******
DJ
[email protected]

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
--George Washington

Robert the41MagFan · February 13, 2000, 07:37 PM

If you have a Winchester levergun, it is rated at 45,000 psi. The .357 Magnum was originally a 45,000 psi rated load. Commercial .357 Magnum loads are well under 40,000 psi levels. Most all commercial ammunition under performs anyway. You can safely build a +P .357 load for a Winchester.

I agree, even though I have never seen the forest fuzz get off their behinds and check someone firearm in the field, it is best to obey the laws of the state for the sake of fair play and staying legal. In this case if the law were to say no .357 Magnum's, then you cannot use one. That's it, no exceptions. But, if the law states a minimum requirement in energy levels and a cartridge is capable of doing so, then use it.

Besides, when did this thing get legal anyway? The original post stated nothing as to whether is was legal or not, but rather if it can be done or not.

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited February 13, 2000).]

Desertscout · February 13, 2000, 08:53 PM

You're right Robert.
Jeffly would have to tell us if he meant if it was legal or whether he meant "can" you hunt with the .357.
I took it for granted that he was talking about the legality of it, my mistake.

------------------
*******
DJ
[email protected]

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
--George Washington

Jeffly · February 19, 2000, 05:32 PM

Thanks for the advice I checked the Fla. game rules and they said no center fire cartrige for hunting deer.

Robert the41MagFan · February 19, 2000, 06:20 PM

What do you mean, "no centerfire rifles"? I'm originally from Florida, we only hunted two ways, centerfire rifle or slugged shotgun. My brother still lives there and hunts with just about anything that he can get his hands on. The state of Florida considers deer a varmint and make it as easy as possible to blow them buggers away. When I lived there, you were allowed one a day.

Just pulled this from Florida fish & wildlife web page.
-------------------------------------------
PROHIBITED METHODS AND EQUIPMENT FOR TAKING GAME

Centerfire semi-automatic rifles having a magazine capacity of more than five rounds.
Non-expanding, full metal case (military ball) ammunition.
Any rimfire cartridge for taking deer.
Rifles or pistols for taking migratory game birds.
Fully automatic or silencer-equipped firearms.
Explosive or drug-injecting arrows.
Set guns, live decoys, snares and nets.
Electronically recorded game calls or sounds.
Shooting from any vehicle, powerboat or sailboat moving under power.
Herding or driving wildlife by use of any vehicle, aircraft or boat.
Artificial light.
Hunting turkeys with dogs.
Shooting turkeys while they are on the roost.
Taking migratory game birds or wild turkey over baited areas, or taking wild turkeys if the hunter is less than 100 yards
from any game-feeding station.
Killing swimming deer.
Hunting with a bow equipped with sights or aiming devices with electronic computational capabilities or light projection
(laser) features during any archery season.
Hunting resident game with a bow with a draw weight of less than 35 pounds.
-------------------------------------------

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited February 19, 2000).]

Jeffly · February 19, 2000, 08:30 PM

You are right I ment to say rimfire. Excuse my lack of knowlege, is a 357 considered a rimfire or a centerfire?

Robert the41MagFan · February 19, 2000, 09:27 PM

Centerfire

Robert

**Bud Helms** · February 20, 2000, 07:08 AM

One a day in Florida? Since when?

I hunted there last in '86 and they had a daily and season bag limit.

One thing I am aware of. Deer are not considered a varmint in Florida. I assume you mean a pest? They are considered a game species and are regulated by license and season.

I am not aware of any state which considers any species of deer a varmint/pest. Hunting them is regulated in all fifty states.

And, BTW, as I recall, in FL, as well as GA, the requirement for a legal deer cartridge, notwthstanding certain outright prohibitions, is 500 ft lbs of energy at 100 yds. That makes the use of the .357, for that purpose, very dependent on ammo selection. Of course, if you reload, it's no problem.

Robert the41MagFan · February 20, 2000, 02:31 PM

"Varmint", "Pest", either case, the state wants hunters to bag as many as possible. I lived in Florida for almost 30 years. Grew up in the swamps of South Florida. We hunted from late October to New Years virtually non stop. You were allowed one a day. Today, the state regulates deer season by a series of controlled hunts that can last from a few days to a few weeks. And other areas can last a bit longer. But most all bag limits in those areas are one deer per day.

Robert

TENFAN · February 22, 2000, 09:49 AM

I live and hunt in Florida and there is no limit on power requirement on energy for handguns to hunt deer. It only has to be a centerfire. The current bag limit is 2 deer per day with no season limit. There is a possession limit of 3 which refers to being in the field. Once you take the deer home the possession limit does not apply. The season in north Florida runs from mid October for Archery through the end of February for muzzleloading season. You can legally shoot 2 deer everyday during that time. Hope this counts.

[This message has been edited by TENFAN (edited February 22, 2000).]

**Bud Helms** · February 22, 2000, 08:01 PM

Okay, I stand corrected. 'Been in GA too long.

February 9, 2000, 02:55 PM	#1
Jeffly Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Posts: 75	Can anyone tell me if you can hunt deer with a .357 mag. rifle, the states I would be most interested in would be on the east coast from Va. south. Thanks J

February 9, 2000, 04:58 PM	#2
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Yes you can! Here is a article from sixguns.com. It is more than enough caliber to do the job. It is all in shot placement. http://www.earp.com/Levhan.html Robert

February 10, 2000, 01:52 PM	#3
cjb Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 265	Rifle hell! Ikilled a six point last year with a Taurus model 608 8" and a 2-7 scope. The shot was at about 35 yards ( my max with a .357 mag handgun) The 158 gr. H.P. took out the lungs and it dropped dead in it's tracks! Like the .357mag rifle? Buy one! Practice, and know your limitations with the weapon! CALVIN " I'M THE NRA! "

February 12, 2000, 08:33 AM	#4
Desertscout Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Posts: 44	Don't ever take legal advice from a BBS. While those that give it mean well, they are not always accurate and YOU are the one taking the risk. Go to NRA's homepage and go to NRA-ILA and lok up state laws. These are pretty accurate if you want to read the laws word-for-word, go to your state statutes. They are available on the web or at your law library. Don't take a LEO's word for it either unless you presonally know him. They have about a million laws to memorize and unless they happen to be firearms enthusiasts, they may very well tell you what they THINK it should be. ------------------ ******* DJ [email protected] "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." --George Washington

February 12, 2000, 08:51 PM	#5
radom Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 1,353	Legal here in oregon. 22 center fire and larger for deer,24 and larger for elk. Personaly I prefer the Smith .41 due to the extra thump.

February 13, 2000, 03:08 AM	#6
Ankeny Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 1998 Location: Shoshoni, WY USA Posts: 556	The .357 magnum is not legal for any big game in Wyoming.

February 13, 2000, 11:22 AM	#7
bergie Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 1999 Posts: 567	Desertscout had it right, don't take legal advice from a bulletin board, check with the state fish & wildlife departments for where you want to hunt. Make sure they hear .357 mag RIFLE. Many states have minimum power requirements rather than min. caliber, or some have a combination of both. In some of these states, cartridges that meet the requirements for handgun will not be legal for hunting when used in a rifle, and vice versa. An example is here in NE, a handgun must deliver at least 400 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yds. A rifle must have at least 900 ft/lbs at 100 yds. .357 mag makes the cutoff for handguns but falls way short if you want to shoot it out of a rifle. Even a .44 mag falls short (depending on load) out of a rifle even though a nice little .44 mag carbine would be a great brush gun. Good luck, Bergie

February 13, 2000, 01:57 PM	#8
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	A handloaded 180 grain bullet fired from a levergun will travel at over 1900 FPS. That translates to over 1500 pound feet of energy at the barrel and above 1000 pound feet at 100 yards. All that 180gr bullet has to do is about 400 pound feet of energy and it will drop ANY size deer. Robert

February 13, 2000, 03:40 PM	#9
bergie Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 1999 Posts: 567	Robert, I'm not going to dispute your figures. I know that a .357 is plenty for deer, having used it myself. Some laws don't make a whole lot of sense. I was using the laws in my state as an example as to what may or may not be legal in some states, after reminding Jeffly the importance of checking with the individual state's regulations. Some states may permit it others may not. The only time I ever checked into it I was simply using ballistic tables in the SHOOTER'S BIBLE, looking up the cartridges in both handgun and rifle ballistic tables, and comparing the energy levels to the law as it is written here in NE. Reviewing the only 2 listings I could find for .357 out of a rifle, Federal has a listing for a 180 grn at 1550 fps out of an 18" barrel, which translates to 535 ft/lbs at 100 yds. There is also a listing for a Winchester 158grn at 1830 fps out of a 20" barrel for 715 ft/lbs at 100 yds. While either of these are enough to put down a deer, they do not meet the legal requirements for the state where I hunt. About half of the .44 loads listed for use in rifles didn't make my state's min. required energy levels for rifles either. While handloaded ammo may be able to get your energy levels over the required IN MY STATE 900 ft/lbs at 100 yds, you better hope that you don't get checked by a game warden (who may not be all that up on ballistics) or you will be hiring professional ballisticians and/or physicists, renting a range and hiring somebody to certify the loading and chrono readings, along with a damn good lawyer to convince the judge that you shouldn't have your firearm (and maybe your truck and any other equipment used on the hunt) confiscated, your hunting rights revoked, damages charged, and a fine levied against you. Don't take legal advice off a bulletin board (unless someone is cautioning not to do something without checking with your own local legal authorities) Bergie

February 13, 2000, 06:27 PM	#10
Desertscout Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Posts: 44	You're not going to safely get 1900 fps with a 180 bullet out of any .357 magnum firearm. The question wasn't whether or not the cartridge is capable of taking deer but is it legal. In NM, ANY centerfire rifle or handgun is legal for deer and ANY centerfire rifle or handgun over .24 caliber is legal for elk. No energy requirements on either ------------------ ******* DJ [email protected] "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." --George Washington

February 13, 2000, 07:37 PM	#11
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	If you have a Winchester levergun, it is rated at 45,000 psi. The .357 Magnum was originally a 45,000 psi rated load. Commercial .357 Magnum loads are well under 40,000 psi levels. Most all commercial ammunition under performs anyway. You can safely build a +P .357 load for a Winchester. I agree, even though I have never seen the forest fuzz get off their behinds and check someone firearm in the field, it is best to obey the laws of the state for the sake of fair play and staying legal. In this case if the law were to say no .357 Magnum's, then you cannot use one. That's it, no exceptions. But, if the law states a minimum requirement in energy levels and a cartridge is capable of doing so, then use it. Besides, when did this thing get legal anyway? The original post stated nothing as to whether is was legal or not, but rather if it can be done or not. Robert [This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited February 13, 2000).]

February 13, 2000, 08:53 PM	#12
Desertscout Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Posts: 44	You're right Robert. Jeffly would have to tell us if he meant if it was legal or whether he meant "can" you hunt with the .357. I took it for granted that he was talking about the legality of it, my mistake. ------------------ ******* DJ [email protected] "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." --George Washington

February 19, 2000, 05:32 PM	#13
Jeffly Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Posts: 75	Thanks for the advice I checked the Fla. game rules and they said no center fire cartrige for hunting deer.

February 19, 2000, 06:20 PM	#14
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	What do you mean, "no centerfire rifles"? I'm originally from Florida, we only hunted two ways, centerfire rifle or slugged shotgun. My brother still lives there and hunts with just about anything that he can get his hands on. The state of Florida considers deer a varmint and make it as easy as possible to blow them buggers away. When I lived there, you were allowed one a day. Just pulled this from Florida fish & wildlife web page. ------------------------------------------- PROHIBITED METHODS AND EQUIPMENT FOR TAKING GAME Centerfire semi-automatic rifles having a magazine capacity of more than five rounds. Non-expanding, full metal case (military ball) ammunition. Any rimfire cartridge for taking deer. Rifles or pistols for taking migratory game birds. Fully automatic or silencer-equipped firearms. Explosive or drug-injecting arrows. Set guns, live decoys, snares and nets. Electronically recorded game calls or sounds. Shooting from any vehicle, powerboat or sailboat moving under power. Herding or driving wildlife by use of any vehicle, aircraft or boat. Artificial light. Hunting turkeys with dogs. Shooting turkeys while they are on the roost. Taking migratory game birds or wild turkey over baited areas, or taking wild turkeys if the hunter is less than 100 yards from any game-feeding station. Killing swimming deer. Hunting with a bow equipped with sights or aiming devices with electronic computational capabilities or light projection (laser) features during any archery season. Hunting resident game with a bow with a draw weight of less than 35 pounds. ------------------------------------------- Robert [This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited February 19, 2000).]

February 19, 2000, 08:30 PM	#15
Jeffly Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Posts: 75	You are right I ment to say rimfire. Excuse my lack of knowlege, is a 357 considered a rimfire or a centerfire?

February 19, 2000, 09:27 PM	#16
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Centerfire Robert

February 20, 2000, 07:08 AM	#17
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	One a day in Florida? Since when? I hunted there last in '86 and they had a daily and season bag limit. One thing I am aware of. Deer are not considered a varmint in Florida. I assume you mean a pest? They are considered a game species and are regulated by license and season. I am not aware of any state which considers any species of deer a varmint/pest. Hunting them is regulated in all fifty states. And, BTW, as I recall, in FL, as well as GA, the requirement for a legal deer cartridge, notwthstanding certain outright prohibitions, is 500 ft lbs of energy at 100 yds. That makes the use of the .357, for that purpose, very dependent on ammo selection. Of course, if you reload, it's no problem.

February 20, 2000, 02:31 PM	#18
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	"Varmint", "Pest", either case, the state wants hunters to bag as many as possible. I lived in Florida for almost 30 years. Grew up in the swamps of South Florida. We hunted from late October to New Years virtually non stop. You were allowed one a day. Today, the state regulates deer season by a series of controlled hunts that can last from a few days to a few weeks. And other areas can last a bit longer. But most all bag limits in those areas are one deer per day. Robert

February 22, 2000, 09:49 AM	#19
TENFAN Member Join Date: February 13, 1999 Location: Tallahassee,FL USA Posts: 27	I live and hunt in Florida and there is no limit on power requirement on energy for handguns to hunt deer. It only has to be a centerfire. The current bag limit is 2 deer per day with no season limit. There is a possession limit of 3 which refers to being in the field. Once you take the deer home the possession limit does not apply. The season in north Florida runs from mid October for Archery through the end of February for muzzleloading season. You can legally shoot 2 deer everyday during that time. Hope this counts. [This message has been edited by TENFAN (edited February 22, 2000).]

February 22, 2000, 08:01 PM	#20
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Okay, I stand corrected. 'Been in GA too long.