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View Poll Results: AIMING: ONE-EYE or TWO
ONE-EYE 68 39.08%
TWO-EYE 72 41.38%
EITHER WAY 34 19.54%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 28, 2007, 01:39 PM   #26
kcshooter
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Yeah, or you could just learn to do it right.


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Both slowness and missing the target are more likely to get you killed than tunnel vision is, and the risk from tunnel vision can be reduced by deliberately training yourself to physically break out of it at the moment your finger comes off the trigger.
I think I covered this in my first post also.

I'm not saying if one can't do it right this minute, and is attacked later today to go against one's abilities. What I'm saying is starting right now someone who can't shoot with both eyes needs to learn to do it!
Why train to re-open that eye instead of training to keep both open?
Training to work around a handicap doesn't make any sense when you could just train to defeat the handicap.
With training and practice, your two points, inaccuracy and lack of speed, can both be overcome.
I don't believe there is anyone that can't be trained to do this.

How is shutting one eye to get a sight picture translate into speed anyway?? Kind of works against you, doesn't it? You should be able to keep both eyes open, keep the front sight locked on your target while still being able to asses the situation and take the shot if need be without shutting an eye and re-aquiring the sight picture. No way is that as fast as being proficient with two eyes open and front sight usage.

Did you pick up a gun the first time and shoot a string of bullseyes, whether it was with one or two eyes? Unless you are one of the very very few who have a natural ability, you had to be trained for accuracy. Going from one eye to two simply requires being retrained to be accurate.


There is one school of thought in defensive training, both eyes open. I won't argue with every piece of training I've ever had, heard, read or otherwise absorbed as long as it seems to ring true and make sense. Two eyes in a SD situation makes sense.

Last edited by kcshooter; May 28, 2007 at 05:41 PM.
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Old May 28, 2007, 02:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Training to work around a handicap doesn't make any sense when you could just train to defeat the handicap.
You are vehemently arguing against a position I have not taken.

If you can just train to defeat the handicap, do so.

If you can't, then be aware that it is a handicap, and do what you need to do in order to work around it.

Finis.

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Old May 29, 2007, 12:40 AM   #28
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Laser

I was playing around with a laser pen - suppose the best would be laser sight on your handgun if you have one - but the pen works fine if you can line it up so you can see the far and near end to "sight" it. Keep both eyes open. If you pick a doorknob or other small object as the "target" 10 yards away or so, you find the double image phenomena that can be confusing when shooting a handgun - long as your aiming with the front end (front sight) of the pen. But I find at least, being rt eye dominant, aiming with the right image as the "target" gives me the "hit" with the laser. and I think the reverse would be true if left eye was dominant. However, after the first few times if you stop thinking about it, the non-dominant second image (the left one for me) is no longer really focused on by the brain, you're not aware of it. Then it's easy, since the brain is naturally paying attention to what it needs to pay attention to. Try it.

Last edited by gvf; May 29, 2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 29, 2007, 07:15 AM   #29
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There's nothing wrong with shooting with one-eye as long as you can consistantly hit your targets.
I think the whole "both eyes open" argument is greatly overstated.
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Old May 29, 2007, 11:31 AM   #30
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I would *love* to be able to shoot with both eyes open. However, I am neither eye dominant thus with both eyes open, I see two targets, and two back sights.

It really sucks, but I'm forced to close one eye.

Thanks!
Greg
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Old May 29, 2007, 01:08 PM   #31
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Greg
You can train yourself to shoot w/both eyes open. One eye will be more dominant than the other and it is usually the same eye as your strong hand. Once you know which eye is dominant, place a piece of transparent tape horizontally across the lens of your shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye side. The tape will usually be from the halfway line up. This will occlude the sight from the non-domnant eye. Doing this will also train your mind which image is "true" and you will eventually be able to do it without the tape. If you encounter the problem again, repeat the process.
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Old May 29, 2007, 01:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Pax posted -
Back a hundred years ago or so, schoolteachers all believed that left-handedness was simply a crutch, a case of the kid being stubborn, and that anyone could be taught to be right-handed.
Heck...I was taught to be right handed despite what nature thought!

I do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture.
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Old May 29, 2007, 02:09 PM   #33
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Those Who Have Been In Real Situations

Any words on this this from those who have been faced with the "real" thing?
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Old May 29, 2007, 02:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
I do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture.
My vision is 20/13 in both, but that means nothing in cross-dominance. I have always been cross-dominant, and Pax is right. No matter how hard I've tried over tha last 40 years, there is no correcting it no matter how many people tell me I can. One eye closes, period! And I shoot rather well.

I will not argue with anybody on the subject. Pax is right!
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Old May 29, 2007, 02:41 PM   #35
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I used to shoot one-eyed because using both eyes would cause double-vision in my sight picture. After some training and practice, I can shoot with both eyes open or just one, equally well.
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Old May 29, 2007, 02:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
I will not argue with anybody on the subject. Pax is right!
Adamantly stating someone is right when others disagree? Uh, dude, that's argueing.



This is my last word on this. I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting. If you think you know better than them, so be it.
The only way to properly be able to defend yourself unhindered is to be able to keep your eyes open and keep your sight fixed on your target. Period. Attend any and every defensive shooting class and see if anyone says anything different. If you can't do it now then you need to make it a priority at your range practice sessions.
If you only target shoot then fine, do what you feel like, but if you shoot to be in a position to defend yourself, you are selling yourself short by not working on this skill.

And for all of you who keep saying you can't do it, have any of you tried? Have you worked with a teacher to learn to do it? You CAN train your eyes to work like this. I did it. Saying you can't is simply giving up. Same as you learned to shoot better with one eye open, you can train to shoot better with both eyes open.
Saying you can't is like a brand new shooter picking up a gun for the first time, not hitting a bullseye and saying, "well I just can't shoot". You can, you just need to be taught how to, and to practice.
I don't care what your dominant eyes situation is, vision is vision, and when you learn that what you see in the relationship between sight and target equals a hit, you will be able to learn to repeat that sight picture-no matter how you see it.
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Old May 29, 2007, 05:34 PM   #37
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I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting.
Uh, dude, you've been trying with every post. Drop it.
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Old May 29, 2007, 05:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting.
Uh, dude, you've been trying with every post. Drop it.


Yeah, that's why I said CONTINUE. Not very good with English are ya? First you don't know what arguing is then you don't know what continue means. Try paying attention. Maybe take notes if you're having trouble keeping up. Post when you have something to say.
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Old May 29, 2007, 06:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
The only way to properly be able to defend yourself unhindered is to be able to keep your eyes open and keep your sight fixed on your target. Period.
As common with most "blanket statements", the statement quoted above just is'nt true.
Folks have been successfully defending themselves with handguns for well over a hundred years, and many did so (and some still do) using "one-eyed-shooting".

I grew up shooting with one eye closed, but later, while in the Army, I learned to keep both eyes open while shooting a handgun.
I can usually hit my target either way but I'm more accurate with one eye closed.
Neither method seems to makes much difference in my situational awareness at the time I'm shooting.
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Old May 29, 2007, 09:25 PM   #40
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Open iron sights, one eye. Serious pistol target, one eye. Pistol point shooting or self defense, both eyes. Scope, aperature or red dot sights, both eyes. Shotgun, both eyes (lets me see what I missed. )

Pops
Pops--

You nailed it! That's exactly what I do. Kindred spirits!
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Old May 30, 2007, 08:41 AM   #41
gregma
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Quote:
You can train yourself to shoot w/both eyes open. One eye will be more dominant than the other and it is usually the same eye as your strong hand. Once you know which eye is dominant, place a piece of transparent tape horizontally across the lens of your shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye side. The tape will usually be from the halfway line up. This will occlude the sight from the non-domnant eye. Doing this will also train your mind which image is "true" and you will eventually be able to do it without the tape. If you encounter the problem again, repeat the process.
Actually neither of my eyes are dominant. At all. I have been trying with the tape for 3 months now. I go every weekend and shoot for at least an hour each time. Almost 1000 rounds. Still nothing.

I will continue to try this, but even with the tape I am no where near as accurate as with one eye closed. But I will continue to work on it when I shoot at the range just in case something magical will happen some day.

Thanks!
Greg
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Old May 30, 2007, 09:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture
Eye dominance has nothing to do with visual acuity. One of your eyes will be dominant because you cannot draw a straight line from one object (like the sight) to both of your eyes.
To find your dominant eye: find a small object 10-15 ft away (a doorknob works well), focus on the object then point your finger at it. Close one eye without moving your finger. If your finger is still pointing at the object, that is your dominant eye. Without moving your finger, close your other eye. Your finger will be off to one side of the object.


Ask yourself this: How many of the top shooters in the world use one eye?
The answer is none. Some do use tape on their glasses for iron sights though.

The reality is that at the distances self defense shootings take place, you could hit the target without using the sights.
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Old May 30, 2007, 10:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
focus on the object then point your finger at it. Close one eye without moving your finger.
When I close my left eye, the finger is to the left of the object. When I close my right eye, the finger is to the right of the object. When I have both eyes open, I see two fingers.

Thanks!
Greg
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Old May 30, 2007, 10:51 AM   #44
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Ok, cup your hand, like a loose fist. Now look at a spot on the wall thru your thumb and forefinger with both eyes open. Now bring your hand back to one eye, then the other. The one that doesn't cause the object to be blocked out at some point thruout the travel back towards your face is the dominant eye.
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Old May 30, 2007, 11:11 AM   #45
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Greg
One of the fingers will be a "ghost" image, the other will be solid. The solid one is the one from your dominant eye. I would guess that you may be cross dominant because when you close your left eye if you are right dominant your finger will be off to the opposite side of the object - in this case the right side. Again, you can't draw a straight line from the object through your finger to both eyes. The one that falls along that line is the dominant eye.
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Old May 30, 2007, 11:22 AM   #46
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One of the fingers will be a "ghost" image, the other will be solid.
Actually both are crisp, sharp, and quite solid. There is absolutely no differences between the two images. Well, other than the left one is slightly lower than the right one.

Quote:
Ok, cup your hand, like a loose fist. Now look at a spot on the wall thru your thumb and forefinger with both eyes open.
I made more progress with this! Although I did see two thumbs and two "sets" of fingers, one farther left than the other, I chose the group that was farthest to the left. Brought it to the right eye.

Thanks!
Greg
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Old May 30, 2007, 11:27 AM   #47
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Dominant Eye

Two other tests for eye-dominance:

- make a small triangle or square with forefingers tips and thumb tips of both hands , about 1/2" in area, a "peak-hole". Hold arms half bent and sight on small object 10-20' away. Slowly bring the little peep-hole increasingly closer to face while retaining sight of small object. Fingers will naturally end up in front of the dominant eye.

- make large triangle with both hands. Fingers the "sides", thumbs the "base", it will look like a "tent". Sight on small object 30 or 40' away so it is in center of your hand-triangle. Now, alternately close and open each eye. With non-dominant eye, the object will be hidden or mostly hidden behind the hands. With dominant eye object will remain in center of your hand-triangle.
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Old May 30, 2007, 11:33 AM   #48
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Ask yourself this: How many of the top shooters in the world use one eye? The answer is none. Some do use tape on their glasses for iron sights though.
Why don't they simply train themselves to shoot with both eyes open?

Lurper's comment shows that, regardless of experience and training, some people simply do not have the wiring which allows one eye to be enough dominant over the other for quick work when precision also matters. That's why these competitors put tape on their shooting glasses.

Now, next question: does anyone here routinely tape over their glasses whenever they conceal carry?

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Old May 30, 2007, 11:57 AM   #49
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Quote:
make a small triangle or square with forefingers tips and thumb tips of both hands , about 1/2" in area, a "peak-hole". Hold arms half bent and sight on small object 10-20' away. Slowly bring the little peep-hole increasingly closer to face while retaining sight of small object. Fingers will naturally end up in front of the dominant eye.
It's about 50-50. A very small majority of the time they come to the right eye, a very small minority of the time they come to the left eye.

Quote:
- make large triangle with both hands. Fingers the "sides", thumbs the "base", it will look like a "tent". Sight on small object 30 or 40' away so it is in center of your hand-triangle. Now, alternately close and open each eye. With non-dominant eye, the object will be hidden or mostly hidden behind the hands. With dominant eye object will remain in center of your hand-triangle.
When I close the left eye, the object moves closer to the left side, but still in the triangle. When I close the right eye, the object moves closer to the right side, but still in the triangle. The object is about 40 feet away.

This is SO frustrating!!
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Old May 30, 2007, 12:09 PM   #50
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some people simply do not have the wiring which allows one eye to be enough dominant over the other for quick work when precision also matters.
It's not a matter of wiring, it is a question of training. You cannot draw a straight line through two objects to both of your eyes, one eye is dominant. What you are doing is training your mind to ignore the ghost image. The way you train it is to use tape. Once it is trained, you can shoot without the tape.

Closing one eye to shoot is creating a crutch that is not necessary and could cost you. First, you don't need a lot of precision. Hitting a 8" plate at 10 yards is all the precision necessary.
Second, speed is more important, it is what will increase your chance of survival. Typically, the first person to hit their target prevails in a gunfight.
Train yourself to shoot with both eyes open. Anyone can do it regardless of whether you use the sights, point shooting or indexing techniques or whether you think an eye is dominant or not.
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