Is AR muzzle device really necessary?

[kymasabe]

I was wondering....I see some barrel manufacturers offer barrels without threaded ends, and got me wondering. Is a flash hider or muzzle brake really necessary on a carbine length AR? I've had cheap muzzle devices that messed with accuracy, removed them and accuracy improved, and then I junked them and bought VG6 flash hides or muzzle brakes. But when firing without one I thought the flash was a bit more obvious, but recoil seemed same. I'm wondering if nice crown and no expensive brake will tighten my groups?

[FrankenMauser]

Is a flash hider or muzzle brake really necessary on a carbine length AR

No.
It isn't necessary on any barrel length.

My last three builds, except for the .300 Blackout that was built specifically to be suppressed, used barrels with standard crowns and no threading.
I chose that route specifically to avoid the added variable(s) and potential headaches of a muzzle device causing problems.

Now, of course, I'm having to get those barrels threaded so I can suppress them. But, that's another subject...

[10-96]

Kymasabe, Funny you should bring this up. I've recently been seeing an add from CDNN Sports for a "sound forwarder". And it's got me to thinking. I had a coworker ask me to assemble him an upper in .450 Bushmaster without a muzzle device- that thing was loud and brutal. It didn't take him long to discover he didn't like it. I put a compensator on it and it made a huge difference. Accuracy didn't seem to change, but the ports directed sound more to the rear, so it seemed even louder to the point to where it wasn't enjoyable to be close to the guy shooting it. I went with another one that directed the sound up and straight to the sides- it was much better. It was an interesting learning experience for me to see the differences first hand. I'm tempted to try that sound forwarder. It looks kinda light, and keeping the blast away from the shooter and/or firing line is a huge plus. I think one might not see any reduction in muzzle climb or felt recoil (maybe more recoil?), but the perceived improvement on sound and probably flash if low light shooting would be a mark on the plus side.

I'll admit, the only time I spent a lot of money on a muzzle device was on a couple of .50 Beowulf uppers. Let me tell ya, those were a huge benefit. I'm not an engineer, and know little about muzzle device design. But I've kinda learned that fancy CNC machine work, funky artsy designs, aliens, skulls, and spiders tend to do little more than separate you from your money. For 5.56, 6.5, 6.8- I tend to buy simple long for caliber 'compensators' that direct impulse up and straight to the sides.

I had an early ATN night vision scope that hated my 16" 5.56. Every time I would fire the silly thing, the flash would reset all the internal adjustments in the scope. It was the perfect thing to ruin a coyote hunt pretty quick like. I went to a longer compensator (before I really understood the difference between a flash hider and compensator) and that was the magic trick to keep my scope from resetting all the internal adjustments such as brightness and choice of reticle.

I still can't picture how a tight muzzle device of any type can effect accuracy. Harmonics is harmonics and getting the bullet to exit the barrel at the same point in the barrels whip (movement, gyration, movement- whichever word describes it) is key to accuracy in a good barrel of any length. If the muzzle device does not touch the bullet- where does effect on accuracy come into play?

[Mobuck]

" I've had cheap muzzle devices that messed with accuracy, removed them and accuracy improved, "

Unless there was some obvious mis-alignment the only possible reason for this is simply barrel harmonics.
No, there is no "requirement" for a muzzle device. I've been using a "blast forwarder" type muzzle device simply to save a bit of noise vs a flash hider(game doesn't shoot back) or muzzle brake(on most AR compatible calibers, really why?).

[Bozz10mm]

The muzzle devices on my 16" AR carbines are not removable. If they were removable it would become an SBR, and a tax stamp would be required. So, in my case, yes they are a necessity.

[ed308]

For a hunting AR, a non threaded barrel is nice. But I prefer a threaded barrel since I like the option for putting a brake on the barrel since I'm not a fan of recoil. You could always put a thread protector on the barrel to see how it shoots without the muzzle device.

https://gnarlygorilla.com/odin-threa...RoCyP8QAvD_BwE

[briandg]

IF you plan on shooting in low light or darkness. Yes.

[HiBC]

Sometimes accuracy from a mil spec AR flash hider can be improved by putting it in a lathe and boring the hole out to approx. the minor dia of the 1/2 20 threaded muzzle.Thats about 7/16 in.

You said you have a carbine. Those barrels are usually 16 in or a fraction over.
If you cut the threads off a carbine barrel and recrown,you will be under the 16 in minimum barrel length and subject to handcuffs.

A muzzle brake can make a difference when a few hundredths of a second can decide the winner/loser.

Some like to see the bullet impact (or miss) the target. (The PD came unglued,I missed left,etc) A brake can make for less scope disturbance.

Flash hiders have advantages in low light combat. A muzzle flash is a target to return fire to.

All depends on what you are doing and priorities.

[rickyrick]

They do offer improvements in some situations, but functionally not necessary.

Many muzzle devices can be of benefit.

The anti gun folks sure hate them

[T. O'Heir]

"...will tighten my groups..." Nope. Brakes, etc have very little to do with accuracy. Nothing at all if you haven't done a trigger job, have a good barrel and sights. And are using good ammo. Preferably ammo reloaded specifically for that rifle.
Mind you, carbines are not made for great accuracy in the first place.

[amd6547]

I built my AR Carbine from parts, back before AR’s became so cheap.
For an upper, I used a Bushmaster ban-era HBAR A1 Carbine upper...heavy barrel with no threaded muzzle, which I got cheap.
Depending on the brand of ammo, even in daylight under the bench roof, the muzzle flash can be bright enough to see. Sometimes a softball sized fireball.

[USMCGrunt]

If it’s for a rifle that is strictly for hunting or range use, then no, it’s not needed. However, if you even think that you might use it for defense then I would say yes, they are necessary to preserve your night vision as well as aid in concealing your position.

[kymasabe]

Originally Posted by Mobuck

"
Unless there was some obvious mis-alignment the only possible reason for this is simply barrel harmonics.

Actually, the problem was poor quality control by the manufacturer of the muzzle device. One side port was larger than the other side, created imbalance that affected accuracy. Removed that brake, shot without it, groups were much better. installed new brake from different manufacturer and groups were still good. Threw the damn thing out. I should have taken pics of it first though.

[Mobuck]

"One side port was larger than the other side, created imbalance that affected accuracy."

Not denying your results, but most flash hiders are non-symmetrical with open top ports and closed bottom. When I re-install a FH, it almost never comes out perfectly aligned since I don't over tighten to "clock" it. Having the closed area tilted to one side hasn't seemed to be a problem.

[jmr40]

During the 1994-2004 AWB guns with certain features were banned. The same guns without them were legal. Removing the flash hider and bayonet lug made an AR legal to own. Lots of AR's sold during that 10 year period without them including my 1st AR. I can't say that I've ever NEEDED either.

[Wag]

It seems that the mass of a muzzle device would change the harmonics of the barrel. Ergo, the rifle with the attachment has a different inertia than the rifle without it. If true, it would suggest that a new load be developed for each circumstance in order to get the accuracy back.

Just a thought.

--Wag--

[Skans]

one good thing about most any muzzle device is that they protect the barrel crown. Cheap insurance, in my opinion.

[doofus47]

Nah, not necessary. I run barrel nuts on most of my hunting ARs.

[rickyrick]

Because I used a Mini14 to hunt for years, a muzzle device with ports on top and none on bottom is real handy when shooting prone.
Lots of dust can be kicked up and a muzzle brake with no ports on bottom helped out.
Have an AR15 with a JP supercomp on it and it’s very loud.
Have 24” AR with no device.
Also have used a linear Comp on a 10.5” pistol that kept more noise away from the shooter.

I think none of them need one, but they do help in some applications.

[CerberusRagnar]

Necessary depends on your application. At night the muzzle device can be critical. Sound can be increased/decreased depending on the device. Larger calibers the brakes help. I just it just depends on what you want. I see a lot of competitors with devices so they must not be detrimental. Quality issues are probably the bigger factor like with yours.

[FrankenMauser]

Nah, not necessary. I run barrel nuts on most of my hunting ARs.

I would hope so.
Running an AR without a barrel nut might result in undesirable and unsafe operation - up to and including launching the barrel out of the receiver...



(I might have to try it... )

[Average Joe]

I had a target crown on my 16 inch barrel, and it produced a 3 foot muzzle flash, I switched out the barrel and installed an A2 flash suppressor and now I have no muzzle flash to speak of , yes, they do work...