Copying concealed carry permit

e-bear · September 29, 2019, 10:11 AM

In Virginia a CCP is printed card paper about the size of a credit card. It is easy to laminate it which will protect it in your wallet. However, if you lose your wallet its gone. Can someone copy and print the permit to carry instead of the original?

unclenunzie · September 29, 2019, 10:38 AM

I'm going to suggest that you look into the very specific requirements and laws of your state.

Beyond this, my opinion is that a copy of a permit or license is not the permit or license, and you'd likely be exposed to arrest for carrying without a permit or license if the actual, state-issued permit or license is not on your person.

Additionally some places might consider lamination, innocent as it may seem, to be defacing the permit or license. You might consider instead a clear plastic removable protective cover, or a thin license holder made for the purpose.

Make certain through advice from those who are authorized and competent to give it before you risk your gun rights or freedom.

FWIW, I keep a copy of my license for record keeping purposes only in pdf form on my computers, etc. I always carry my original state issued license.

HiBC · September 29, 2019, 11:08 AM

I'm not a lawyer or legal expert of any kind. My advice is worth nothing.

Somehow I think if I made up a real nice laminated copy of my drivers license and presented it to an LEO during a traffic stop,things would not go well for me.

Even if it was a copy of my legit driver's license. My motive might be simply backup. but that does not change the fact its a forgery.(That's just my opinion)

I would not make a facsimile of the card,but writing or otherwise recording the info on the card for your records might possibly facilitate a re-issue of your original card should you lose it.

TomNJVA · September 29, 2019, 11:31 AM

I don't know about the validity of a copy, but when I got my CCP here in Virginia four years ago the county clerk recommended getting it laminated.

MTT TL · September 29, 2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Somehow I think if I made up a real nice laminated copy of my drivers license and presented it to an LEO during a traffic stop,things would not go well for me.

It would go better for you than if you showed him a copy of a CCP. Most law enforcement officers nationwide have computers and can look up your driver's license and picture to see if it is actually you. Driver's licenses are typically standardized throughout the state, but in many states CCPs are not and may have great variation from county to county depending upon the state. The state may or may not be the issuing agency. This limits their ability to check your pistol permit not only within the state but from outside the state.

Some counties, in some states issue a black and white, unlaminated permit on copy paper. There is no way of knowing if it is a copy or the original.

Dufus · September 29, 2019, 02:30 PM

I know we are in completely different states, but the wife lost her CCL last year along with some other stuff card wise.

The state has a link on the main website to replace such license. Total cost was $5.00. The license is almost identical to the state issued driver license.

Maybe your state has such provisions too??

TomNJVA · September 29, 2019, 02:33 PM

My Virginia CCP is printed on plain paper, but the signatures are originals and it has a raised stamp. VA law does not address carrying a copy of the permit, but does refer to carrying "a valid permit" which could be interpreted as the original permit. In any case, failure to have the CCP on your person is a minor offense and would likely be dismissed if you could show you in fact were issued a valid permit.

§ 18.2-308.01. Carrying a concealed handgun with a permit.

B. Failure to display the permit and a photo identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer shall be punishable by a $25 civil penalty, which shall be paid into the state treasury. Any attorney for the Commonwealth of the county or city in which the alleged violation occurred may bring an action to recover the civil penalty. A court may waive such penalty upon presentation to the court of a valid permit and a government-issued photo identification. Any law-enforcement officer may issue a summons for the civil violation of failure to display the concealed handgun permit and photo identification upon demand.

**Spats McGee** · September 29, 2019, 03:28 PM

OP, that seems like a pretty bad idea. It seems like a way to send a police officers suspicions through the roof. Better to just get the replacement. I took a look at the relevant statutes, and here's what catches my eye (even though I'm not licensed in VA).

Quote:

A. The prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun in clause (i) of subsection A of § 18.2-308 shall not apply to a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this article. The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the U.S. Department of Defense or U.S. State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. A person to whom a nonresident permit is issued shall have such permit on his person at all times when he is carrying a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth and shall display the permit on demand by a law-enforcement officer. A person whose permit is extended due to deployment shall carry with him and display, upon request of a law-enforcement officer, a copy of the documents required by subsection B of § 18.2-308.010.

B. Failure to display the permit and a photo identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer shall be punishable by a $25 civil penalty, which shall be paid into the state treasury. Any attorney for the Commonwealth of the county or city in which the alleged violation occurred may bring an action to recover the civil penalty. A court may waive such penalty upon presentation to the court of a valid permit and a government-issued photo identification. Any law-enforcement officer may issue a summons for the civil violation of failure to display the concealed handgun permit and photo identification upon demand.

Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.01 (West)

It says "such permit," or "the permit." It doesn't say "the permit or a photocopy thereof."

e-bear · September 30, 2019, 10:04 AM

I thank all you folks for your opinions on this. You make some pretty valid points. I tend to agree that the original is the only permit. I will call my County Clerk of Courts to get the true information.

Thank you Spats for your efforts in retrieving the proper Va. statutes. it makes it pretty clear.

DaleA · September 30, 2019, 03:28 PM

There's hardly any paper cards anymore...everything is plastic now. But in days of yore when paper ruled we had plastic card sized envelopes in our billfolds that protected the paper items from wear and tear. Don't see them much any more but I'll bet their still around. Would be an alternative to laminating the card.

Geezerbiker · September 30, 2019, 11:31 PM

You could get a copy from the county sheriff's office in advance so you'll have one in an emergency...

Tony

**44 AMP** · October 1, 2019, 12:59 AM

My auto insurance folks send me a card to use as "proof of insurance", its easy and convenient, and it is the usual thing, but its not the only thing that meets the requirement, because the law says "proof of insurance", without further specifics.

But when its a pistol license, and the law says you have to have the license on you when carrying, its generally accepted that they mean the license they issued, NOT a copy.

You can't legally pay for your dinner (or your bail

) with a photocopy of your cash. I doubt you can legally carry with a photocopy of your license, if the law states you must have the license, but to be sure, I suggest you get qualified legal advice about what is legal in your state and jurisdiction, and not take the word of any well meaning internet friend, or your local cop, or a clerk in the county office.

DockRock · October 1, 2019, 01:05 AM

Best do it the other way around. Laminate, protect and cartridge original. Keep a copy in your firebox to help replace the original should it go missing.

osbornk · October 4, 2019, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomNJVA

I don't know about the validity of a copy, but when I got my CCP here in Virginia four years ago the county clerk recommended getting it laminated.

The Clerk of the Court did mine personally when I renewed and one of the staff did my original.

**Spats McGee** · October 5, 2019, 05:29 AM

Ladies and gentlemen,
I've had to do a second round of thread cleanup, so I'd like to encourage everyone to stay on topic. Let's look at the OP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-bear

In Virginia a CCP is printed card paper about the size of a credit card. It is easy to laminate it which will protect it in your wallet. However, if you lose your wallet its gone. Can someone copy and print the permit to carry instead of the original?

This thread is pretty specific: Lamination and copying of a Virginia CCP. Not another state, not a different kind of card, and not your mama's meatloaf recipe. Please stay on topic.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 5, 2019, 08:10 AM

Actually, the question posed in the OP is not whether one can laminate the VA permit, the question seems to be whether or not it is lawful to carry a printed/scanned/photocopied facsimile of the original permit in lieu of carrying the actual paper permit that was issued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-bear

Can someone copy and print the permit to carry instead of the original?

jmr40 · October 5, 2019, 12:06 PM

Call your local district attorneys office and ask for their opinion.

September 29, 2019, 10:11 AM	#1
e-bear Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 95	Copying concealed carry permit In Virginia a CCP is printed card paper about the size of a credit card. It is easy to laminate it which will protect it in your wallet. However, if you lose your wallet its gone. Can someone copy and print the permit to carry instead of the original? __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.'- Ronald Reagan "Denying me a gun because idiots kill is like getting castrated because your neighbor has too many kids." - Andy

September 29, 2019, 10:38 AM	#2
unclenunzie Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Texas. Posts: 140	I'm going to suggest that you look into the very specific requirements and laws of your state. Beyond this, my opinion is that a copy of a permit or license is not the permit or license, and you'd likely be exposed to arrest for carrying without a permit or license if the actual, state-issued permit or license is not on your person. Additionally some places might consider lamination, innocent as it may seem, to be defacing the permit or license. You might consider instead a clear plastic removable protective cover, or a thin license holder made for the purpose. Make certain through advice from those who are authorized and competent to give it before you risk your gun rights or freedom. FWIW, I keep a copy of my license for record keeping purposes only in pdf form on my computers, etc. I always carry my original state issued license. __________________ I reject your reality and substitute my own! this space for rent

September 29, 2019, 11:31 AM	#4
TomNJVA Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2014 Location: Floyd, VA Posts: 241	I don't know about the validity of a copy, but when I got my CCP here in Virginia four years ago the county clerk recommended getting it laminated. __________________ In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.

September 29, 2019, 02:33 PM	#7
TomNJVA Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2014 Location: Floyd, VA Posts: 241	My Virginia CCP is printed on plain paper, but the signatures are originals and it has a raised stamp. VA law does not address carrying a copy of the permit, but does refer to carrying "a valid permit" which could be interpreted as the original permit. In any case, failure to have the CCP on your person is a minor offense and would likely be dismissed if you could show you in fact were issued a valid permit. § 18.2-308.01. Carrying a concealed handgun with a permit. B. Failure to display the permit and a photo identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer shall be punishable by a $25 civil penalty, which shall be paid into the state treasury. Any attorney for the Commonwealth of the county or city in which the alleged violation occurred may bring an action to recover the civil penalty. A court may waive such penalty upon presentation to the court of a valid permit and a government-issued photo identification. Any law-enforcement officer may issue a summons for the civil violation of failure to display the concealed handgun permit and photo identification upon demand. __________________ In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.

September 30, 2019, 10:04 AM	#9
e-bear Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 95	I thank all you folks for your opinions on this. You make some pretty valid points. I tend to agree that the original is the only permit. I will call my County Clerk of Courts to get the true information. Thank you Spats for your efforts in retrieving the proper Va. statutes. it makes it pretty clear. __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.'- Ronald Reagan "Denying me a gun because idiots kill is like getting castrated because your neighbor has too many kids." - Andy

September 29, 2019, 11:08 AM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I'm not a lawyer or legal expert of any kind. My advice is worth nothing. Somehow I think if I made up a real nice laminated copy of my drivers license and presented it to an LEO during a traffic stop,things would not go well for me. Even if it was a copy of my legit driver's license. My motive might be simply backup. but that does not change the fact its a forgery.(That's just my opinion) I would not make a facsimile of the card,but writing or otherwise recording the info on the card for your records might possibly facilitate a re-issue of your original card should you lose it.

September 29, 2019, 02:30 PM	#6
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I know we are in completely different states, but the wife lost her CCL last year along with some other stuff card wise. The state has a link on the main website to replace such license. Total cost was $5.00. The license is almost identical to the state issued driver license. Maybe your state has such provisions too??

September 30, 2019, 03:28 PM	#10
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	There's hardly any paper cards anymore...everything is plastic now. But in days of yore when paper ruled we had plastic card sized envelopes in our billfolds that protected the paper items from wear and tear. Don't see them much any more but I'll bet their still around. Would be an alternative to laminating the card.

September 30, 2019, 11:31 PM	#11
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	You could get a copy from the county sheriff's office in advance so you'll have one in an emergency... Tony

October 1, 2019, 12:59 AM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,813	My auto insurance folks send me a card to use as "proof of insurance", its easy and convenient, and it is the usual thing, but its not the only thing that meets the requirement, because the law says "proof of insurance", without further specifics. But when its a pistol license, and the law says you have to have the license on you when carrying, its generally accepted that they mean the license they issued, NOT a copy. You can't legally pay for your dinner (or your bail ) with a photocopy of your cash. I doubt you can legally carry with a photocopy of your license, if the law states you must have the license, but to be sure, I suggest you get qualified legal advice about what is legal in your state and jurisdiction, and not take the word of any well meaning internet friend, or your local cop, or a clerk in the county office. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 1, 2019, 01:05 AM	#13
DockRock Member Join Date: August 19, 2019 Posts: 58	Best do it the other way around. Laminate, protect and cartridge original. Keep a copy in your firebox to help replace the original should it go missing.

October 5, 2019, 12:06 PM	#17
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Call your local district attorneys office and ask for their opinion. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill