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Old November 4, 2015, 05:02 AM   #1
LogicMan
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Is it possible to spear hunt a grizzly bear?

Okay, first off, I want to be clear that this is not any troll post, so please hear me out. Also this is not something I am thinking of attempting any time soon!

Basically, I have an interest in human evolution and hunter-gatherer lifestyle and techniques and all of that. My understanding is that the first weapon that put humans at the top of the food chain in terms of hunting capabilities, was the spear. Chimpanzees, which intelligence-wise would be equivalent to some of our very primitive ancestors, make primitive spears. They take branches and use their teeth to knock off the twigs and leaves and then use them to stab at small animals like bush babies to eat. Primitive spears by human ancestors from two million years ago have been discovered (modern Homo Sapien Sapiens, ourselves, appeared about 250,000 years ago) and tested by javelin athletes and they work very well.

Now Homo Sapiens, by evolutionary biology, are considered one of the great apes (we and chimpanzees are genetically closer to one another than chimpanzees are to gorillas). Technically, we would be considered a very short-haired, long-legged, upright-walking ape that is designed to run distance and make tools, and with a huge brain, making us very high-functioning. Another anatomical feature we have over all other primates however is the ability to engage in an overhand throw. This was likely evolved to be able to throw spears. It started with our ancestors, such as Homo Erectus, for whom throwing spears was an important aspect of hunting. For example, a chimpanzee is far stronger than a human in terms of raw physical strength, but their throwing ability is nonetheless pathetic, due to their arm anatomy (which is designed for gripping and pulling, to swing through trees, not throwing projectiles).

The spear and human distance running capability (humans are among the best distance runners in the animal kingdom) created a totally new type of predator. Generally, predators are ambush hunters who sprint down their prey and must rely on physical strength to kill it. But humans, at a minimum, will run the animal down over distance and/or throw a spear into it, which thus made the animals that the otherwise weak little creatures that humans could hunt unlimited. The lion for example can't kill the elephant. The elephant has no predator in the wild except for other elephants and humans. Humans armed with spears are fully capable of killing elephants, and during prehistoric times, humans (and our ancestors) killed all manner of megafauna, ranging from giant ground sloth to wooly mammoth and mastodon, wooly rhino to even the giant grizzly bears of the time.

Now eventually, instead of just throwing the spear bare-armed, humans invented a very simple, but very ingenious tool to increase the force the spear could be thrown and the distance it could be thrown, the spear thrower (also called the atlatl):



This allowed humans to throw the spear from a further, and hence safer, distance away. It was so successful that it became a primary method of hunting big animals for tens of thousands of years until the bow and arrow was invented.

Now going back to my original question, I have been Googling up, out of curiosity, about spear hunting and spear hunting a grizzly bear, and found one thread at The High Road forum on spear hunting a grizzly bear. The consensus was that most thought the idea was nuts and the thread was closed after three pages. I was wondering if maybe they had some misconceptions about the spear though and its effectiveness. They said that the idea was too dangerous and a good way to get killed, but that's what leads to my question here:

If prehistoric humans could hunt all those big animals, including bears, with just spears, why couldn't modern humans? Obviously, it would require some degree of athletic/physical skill to be capable of throwing the spear over any real distance, but in particular with an atlatl, couldn't a human hunt a grizzly bear with a spear from a safe distance, and just instead of shooting at it with a gun, launch a spear into it instead? My understanding is that with an atlatl, a person can throw a spear over 120 yards.

Thus, would hunting with a spear really be as dangerous as some think, or is this impression more due to people having forgotten the athletic capabilities that prehistoric humans had when they hunted with spears? Obviously Joe Sixpack trying to go out and hunt with a spear would probably be a bad idea, but I mean someone with a lot of capability in spear and atlatl throwing with accuracy and distance, who also knows how to hunt. Such a person would probably also have experience hunting other more safer animals first.

Also I can understand of course that having a firearm makes things safer in terms of backup weapons in case ambushed, and also just in terms of hunting out of necessity instead of sport, but I'd liken spear hunting to going into the wilderness to survive solely off the land, i.e. stone tools and all that, just to see if one could do it. It doesn't mean one wouldn't take along modern supplies as a backup.
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Old November 4, 2015, 05:50 AM   #2
jmr40
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I think it is certainly possible. I doubt if it is legal anywhere in the USA. Thousands of years ago I wouldn't be surprised at all to find humans had killed grizzlies with spears. But I doubt if many attempted it solo. A dozen or more of your hunting buddies surrounding one with spears would have been more likely.
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Old November 4, 2015, 07:51 AM   #3
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Probably a "once in a lifetime" endeavor.
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:20 AM   #4
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Could it be done? Sure
Should it be done? Not so much....
Use the best tool for the job the law allows.

I would love to hunt deer with my recurve; but I know every bow season I will make a cleaner, more humane kill with a compound.
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:36 AM   #5
BillM
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The early Spanish settlers in California hunted Grizzly from horseback
with spears. If you were going to hunt one on foot with a light spear and
Atlatl, bait and a treestand might work.
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:39 AM   #6
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Wonder how someone like Brett Farve or Roger Clemens could launch that thing, I think accuracy would be a big problem. That, and the pee ood bear on the other end, interesting post though.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:09 AM   #7
TimSr
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Considering the reason they actually hunted, if you were dependant on taking your food with a spear, would you really pick grizzly to hunt? Maybe if forced to protect themselves, but I highly anyone picked up a speer to go hunt grizzlies.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:20 AM   #8
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Spear has been done for century, but what you're proposing is a javelin. The advantage of the spear is that once you make contact, you have several feet of solid wood between you and a -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- off bear, hopefully maintaining the distance. Using a javelin would only work if you have spear carriers ensuring that the bear doesn't rapidly cover the distance and expresses his extreme displeasure with the sudden addition to its looks.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:26 AM   #9
Doyle
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"Hunt" grizzly with a spear - I'm skeptical. "Kill" them with a spear - probably yes. Difference is original intent. I doubt native Americans went out deliberately looking to hunt griz with spears. I'm sure there were occasions when they had to use them to defend themselves and even killed some doing so. Natives hunted for food, clothing, shelter, etc. I'm thinking there were much "better" alternatives than grizzly bears for all those.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
If prehistoric humans could hunt all those big animals, including bears, with just spears, why couldn't modern humans?
Modern humans have been killing animals with the atlatl for the last 25,000 years and has well documented historic use here in the New World. So of course somebody today could kill animals with the altalt as well. So, there is NO question here.

Would it be ethical to try to hunt with one given today's technology? Maybe not. While atlatls may be capable of throwing spears long distances, accuracy is a big factor and is diminishes beyond about 35 yards and that is for skilled users of the tool. I certainly would not want to be a novice atlatl thrower going after scary game at such short distances. After all, while humans may be great long distance runners compared to other animals, humans pretty well suck at sprinting compared to other animals. Keep in mind that bear can run down a deer and a bear inside of 40 yards will be on you VERY quickly if he realizes you are the threat.

Before taking on a bear, I would first want to be a highly skilled atlatl spear thrower. When you can take cottontail rabbits at 30 yards with an atlatl 95% of the time or more, then you know you have have good accuracy that might be capable of taking a bear before it takes you.

Otherwise, bring a team of experience rifle shooters to back you up when you try this experiment.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:40 AM   #11
Jim Watson
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Well, the Maasai hunt lions with spears to prove they are worthy of manhood.
Some aren't.

What would your widow's lawyer have to say about a hunting guide who let you take on dangerous game with a spear?

Once upon a time Bo Randall would make you a hunting spear. I don't know what they got used for, though.
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Old November 4, 2015, 11:00 AM   #12
Art Eatman
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Hunting large dangerous game with spear, javelin or atlatl was a group endeavor. The science boffins comment about multiple markings on bones, indicating several weapons were used in the kill.

The Masai method of killing a lion with an assegai is by a group encircling the lion and all of them stabbing it. (Videos are on the Web.)

Atlatl? Take your pick among the videos: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=atlatl+video
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Old November 4, 2015, 11:17 AM   #13
2damnold4this
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Quote:
Atlatl, bait and a treestand might work.




^This. I think it would be as safe as hunting a bear with a bow provided you were accurate enough.
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Old November 4, 2015, 11:22 AM   #14
AzShooter
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I would use the biggest gun I could.

Friend shot a Griz with a bow and arrow. Took too long to find it and the other bears ate half of it. With a spear I thing the bear has too much of a chance to eat you.
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Old November 4, 2015, 12:08 PM   #15
aarondhgraham
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It was scary enough,,,

It was scary enough,,,
Hunting javelina with a boar spear.

I don't think I would want to try it with a bear.

Aarond

.
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Old November 4, 2015, 06:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Hunting large dangerous game with spear, javelin or atlatl was a group endeavor. The science boffins comment about multiple markings on bones, indicating several weapons were used in the kill.

The Masai method of killing a lion with an assegai is by a group encircling the lion and all of them stabbing it.
Or, look at the !Kung hunting of giraffe. A small group of men throw spears at a giraffe and then track it for days until it finally bleeds out, sometimes losing the quarry to higher apex predators who also end up trailing the animal.
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Old November 4, 2015, 06:41 PM   #17
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Men, or men like beings, have been hunting all kinds of very larger, very dangerous animals for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of years with not so much as sticks and spears.

Yes, it can be done. But a lot of our ancestors died in the process.

I personally would use a .416 Rigby at a minimum.

Preferably from a helicopter.
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:22 PM   #18
Art Eatman
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Aw, javelina would be too easy. I've spent minutes easing along within ten or so yards of a herd of the critters. Ran in and grabbed a baby, one time. Dang, he was loud! Squirmy, too. They all ran off but for Mama, who popped her jaws until I set him down.
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Old November 5, 2015, 04:45 AM   #19
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Be a lot easier to trap one with stuff laying around the woods.
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Old November 5, 2015, 07:29 AM   #20
Double Naught Spy
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Why do I think that nowadays, this sort of exercise would involve a half dozen or so buddies, homemade improvised spears, and beer, lot's of beer?
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Old November 5, 2015, 08:34 AM   #21
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I like Double Naught Spy's concept of Beer for Bear, what an evolutionary idea!!!

Cave bear were routinely killed with spears by groups of early man. The key here is groups of men working together. This is a definite advantage. Even then I would assume not all of the men survived all of the time. Spears were typically big long sticks with heavy stone points not the modern concept of an elegant point on a perfectly straight polished wooden shaft. Early spears were not intended for throwing but up close stabbing action. Spears killed everything from Mammoths to bras to larger herbivores. Doable in groups but not a good idea alone. So back to the Beer concept. Beer attracts friends. Friends with spears that can easily become drunken enough to go after bears.
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Old November 5, 2015, 10:09 AM   #22
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From what I've read, the Lakota Sioux often hunted in groups. They killed these great bears whether encountered out on the prairie or within the forests of the Black Hills. These warriors didn't seem to care about the limitations of their short bows and flint tipped arrows.

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Old November 5, 2015, 11:57 AM   #23
DennisCA
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Mobuck - Probably a "once in a lifetime" endeavor.

Like jumping from an airplane without a parachute!

Just because you CAN do something - doesn't mean you should!
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Old November 5, 2015, 06:46 PM   #24
natman
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I'm sure it's possible to attack a grizzly with a spear and survive, but I think a more accurate way to say it is "It's not impossible to attack a grizzly with a spear and survive."

Either way it's not a good idea.
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Old November 5, 2015, 07:33 PM   #25
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You can spear any grizzly one time.
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