Feinstein's Bumpfire Ban Bill

[JoeSixpack]

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

So, if one get take a step backwards on a stupid item (like bump fire) and several important steps forward - for example - getting rid of sporting purpose language, ammo type bans and lifting the suppressor rules - that's a good trade and more progress.

If you want to be in a never surrender Japanese Pacific Island garrison, that's fine. Does it help your cause?

Tell me how you propose to get even one of those things in trade.
I see no historical basis for that hope, But convince me.

Tell me how you plan to limit their ban to a narrowly worded "bump stock" none of the bills thus far come even close to that.
But you're gonna convince them to scale back to a narrow wording and extract a concession from them.. I can't wait to hear the plan.

This is not a shooting war If it was the matter would have long been settled; Why do people think if you loose one debate, one fight, they cart you off to the morgue.. "Sorry the vote didn't go your way, now we're gonna cut out your tongue & snip off your fingers."

If we win the debate we will have it again after the next high profile shooting.
If we loose we'll still have another debate after the next shooting, but on something else.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

First, historically - I documented how it happened in the past in the carry debates. Both in Oregon and TX compromises were made to get the laws and then fixes made - esp. in Texas.

Second - so the current bills are crappy - you needed dedicated and intelligent negotiators. I assume you assume that progun folks are incapable of that - so we just sit and whine.

That's your plan.

[Metal god]

you needed dedicated and intelligent negotiators

It really can't be explained any simpler then that . You need are side to say no vote will be taken if anything other then the bump stock is included in the bill .

Done dang deal ;-)

[Nathan]

So we all have posted here....how many have written a concise letter to their representatives?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Some people continue to post rants that contain statements that are not factually true. While it is amusing to post long and well documented rebuttals, that is becoming a waste of time.

They will be deleted. Msny fora exist for rants elsewhere.

[Tom Servo]

So we all have posted here....how many have written a concise letter to their representatives?

All too few.

Here we go, guys: sign up here. This site allows you to quickly and easily send correspondence to your relevant congresscritters. I don't care if your Senator is one of those, "I went hunting with Uncle Jed one time. I support the 2nd Amendment. Swearsie realsies!" types. I don't care if he's a genetic clone of John Wayne and Charlton Heston. He's going to be under immense amounts of pressure, and he'll be tempted to take the easy way out. He needs to hear from his constituents.

[Metal god]

What if he's Diane Feinstein

[Tom Servo]

What if he's Diane Feinstein?

Actually, if she were hearing from enough of her constituents, and on a regular basis, it might give her reason for pause.

Problem is, my own personal research finds that 0.000071% of people who gripe about RKBA issues on the internet or at the gun-shop counter actually ever take the time to contact their legislators.

[Metal god]

I don't know what the actual numbers are but I contact my reps . In fact I received what I believed to be a personal reply and not one of those generic reply's from Feinstein once .

if she were hearing from enough of her constituents, and on a regular basis, it might give her reason for pause.

I believe this to be accurate across the board and not just with the RKBA . It's quite sad how many times I hear family or friends criticizing something the government is doing and when I ask have you called or wrote your reps . There's just a blank stare in there eyes . So sad .

Not sure about other states but here in CA you can't email any reps that don't represent your district through the .gov website . You must enter your address and zip code and once you've done that only your reps come up as options to write to . This is something that really bothers me because these people are voting for things that effect the entire state . Shouldn't they all have to listen to everyone in the state if what they are about to vote on effects everyone in the state ?

I've called other reps and at times been told the congressman was not my rep and directed and transferred to the proper rep with out being able to voice my concerns . Not sure how the snail mail works . They likely have sorters checking the postage stamp as to where it was mailed from and redirect it as well .

Anyways Tom I think you're more right then wrong on what you said there .

[Stats Shooter]

Well,

I actually work with legislators quite often at the state and federal level.....not on firearms related matters though.

I am lucky enough (or unlucky enough depending on your opinion) that I could voice my concerns to them in person. However, with respect to firearm related matters, I have no complaints with my reps.

But I have raised concerns on other matters and it does make a difference. Especially if you can get several folks to sign on. I helped kill a tax idea from some misguided state legislator with the help of a relatively small organization.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I write my reps all the time. I comment on such things to major newspapers and magazines. Sometimes I get the comment in print or reasonable replies even from negatively oriented authors. Don't rant and be professional.

I testified to the TX legislature and got in the papers in our major cities and on TV!

[44 AMP]

This is something that really bothers me because these people are voting for things that effect the entire state . Shouldn't they all have to listen to everyone in the state if what they are about to vote on effects everyone in the state ?

I think you are looking at it a little wrong. The whole point of having districts and different representatives is so that each can focus on the people they directly represent. Its not the job of the next district's representative to listen to you, that your district representative's job. They might not do it well, but it is their job,

[Coppershot]

I would accept prohibiting the importation of bumpstocks. Let's keep the manufacturing, and the profits, close to home. As others have suggested, I would want something in return. I have no interest in them myself. It looks like a good way to ruin a nice firearm.

[Ghost1958]

Let's be realistic.
1. Once a right limiting gun law is passed on a fed level that is the end of that. Im not aware of one single fed gun law ever being negotiated and repealed or made less restrictive after it was passed unless it had a sunset clause when passed.

TX is unique. And like it or not TX would not have open carry now if not for the so called rifle toting idiots

One step back is just that. One step back and nothing more.

Not one more darn inch.

Write your reps. call, etc.

Make plain the NRA does not speak for most gun owners. And any vote for anything gun related, including National Reciprocity , except repeal of gun regulations, will earn them a one way ticket to the nearest exit of their office.

No negotiations, no compromises, only repeal. From now on. Period.

[JohnKSa]

And like it or not TX would not have open carry now if not for the so called rifle toting idiots

While I don't disagree with your characterization of at least some of the OCT activists, the rest of the quote is not at all realistic.

Open Carry was set to pass in TX regardless due to groundwork by the TSRA; in fact, before all the idiocy started, there were even permitless open carry bills submitted which had a good chance of passing. Even a year before the 2015 legislative session, the TSRA had made it clear that open carry was one of their priorities and the TSRA is a very effective organization when it comes to getting legislation passed.

Once the idiots started doing their thing, the permitless option was pretty much off the table and even support for the permitted open carry bills decreased. Some of the activities/demonstrations that took place were so obviously ill-advised that there were some in the gun community who questioned whether these "rifle toting idiots" might actually be undercover anti-gunners.

In just a few months they managed to produce more negative local media coverage of firearms in TX than I had seen in years.

Make plain the NRA does not speak for most gun owners.

While this is probably true, it isn't likely to be true in the way you think it is. Given that there are likely in the neighborhood of 100 million gun owners in the U.S. and only 5 million NRA members, it seems much more likely that "most gun owners" feel that the NRA is too extreme and needs to take a softer stance.

Firearms enthusiasts sometimes have a tendency to believe that they represent firearms owners as a whole. The fight for gun rights would be a LOT simpler if the average gun owner had the same views as the average firearm enthusiast.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Gee - I'm glad that got all those 30.07 signs! Some of them were generated specifically by the Chipolte Twins and their fellow travelers poisoning the well. Without the show, we might not have seen those signs. I know several businesses that were moved to go to 30.07 as they thought the rifle dudes were idiots and didn't want to risk similar displays from handgun carriers.

[Ghost1958]

That the NRA had a fraction of gun owners/carriers as members is because they are to hardline is an opinion geared to defend a gun rights org that actively has helped pass anti gun laws.

Judging by the current backlash at their wishy washy stance that brought on all this mess of proposed gun regulations, and the number of members that a cursory skimming of gun related sites shows has had it with them and are leaving them for more hardline orgs, that defense of the NRA seems a bit far fetched.

The NRA has mostly hunters and gamers as members. And instructors.

I once long ago before I understood what the NRA is was a member.

There is a reason most folks who own guns and know they have a right to carry them uninfringed aren't members of the nra.
Looking at real world reaction of most gun owners to them and their comments about them it ain't because they are to hardline.
If they get any softer they will melt.

[rickyrick]

Hunters and sportspeople are enemies on our side. They are the ones that show up in interviews admonishing semi-auto-military-grade-assault-rifles and the clip magazines that go with them. I was one of those guys.

Gun rights have been assigned to the political right, but it also gives the opposition something to use. Any issue that has a political side to it will remain an issue because politicians can get mileage out of it.
The issues of today were issues 16 years ago, they will remain to be issues 16 years into the future and will never get fully resolved. Not only guns.
It’s a bit different in this cycle, seems to be a lot of desperation out there; more people are looking for government issued happiness, inversely more people are looking to divorce themselves from government intrusion into private lives. People in the middle are just shaking their heads. The pendulum is swinging our direction still and these bills won’t gain much ground on the national stage. When it swings back in the other direction, look out.
The whole point of these bills is to set things into the voter’s memory for when conditions are more ripe to get some traction.

[JohnKSa]

...the number of members that a cursory skimming of gun related sites shows has had it with them and are leaving them for more hardline orgs...

Logically speaking, if the average gun owner sees the NRA as not hardline enough then we should expect to see these hardline organizations being supported more strongly than the NRA. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those "hardline orgs" that are supposedly so appealing to the millions of gun owners in the U.S. have membership figures a fraction of the size of the NRA. Obviously the "hardline" organizations have far less appeal to the average gun owner than the NRA does.

100 million gun owners - 5 million NRA members - 1.5 million (claimed) GOA members.

Those numbers contradict the theory that the NRA appeals less to the average gun owner than the "hardline" organizations like GOA do.

Virtually every person I know is a gun owner and yet few of them have any strong interest in gun rights and many have a tendency to go whatever direction the wind (media) blows them. Firearm enthusiasts tend get wrapped up in their small community and lose track of what's going on in the real world.

[Prndll]

"100 million gun owners - 5 million NRA members - 1.5 million (claimed) GOA members."

That sounds to me like the average gun owner just simply isn't truly represented. It isn't that the NRA is all that popular or that most people gravitate toward other orgs. It's more that none of the current choices match what the vast majority of the people want or believe in. It all quite clearly screams how completely out of touch the orgs are. Personally, I think the money and the power have gone to their heads. There is a disconnect between the NRA and the people. For many, this could easily 'look' just like the disconnect that so obviously exists between Washington and the rest of the country.

[5whiskey]

The whole point of these bills is to set things into the voter’s memory for when conditions are more ripe to get some traction.

This.

[44 AMP]

That sounds to me like the average gun owner just simply isn't truly represented.

By the NRA??

Why should they be??

And, yes, that is a serious question.

Go ahead, answer, I'll wait....

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

Gee - I'm glad that got all those 30.07 signs! Some of them were generated specifically by the Chipolte Twins and their fellow travelers poisoning the well. Without the show, we might not have seen those signs. I know several businesses that were moved to go to 30.07 as they thought the rifle dudes were idiots and didn't want to risk similar displays from handgun carriers.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were cases where the anti-gunners open carried in an obnoxious way to help shore up their cause

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Once the idiots started doing their thing, the permitless option was pretty much off the table and even support for the permitted open carry bills decreased. Some of the activities/demonstrations that took place were so obviously ill-advised that there were some in the gun community who questioned whether these "rifle toting idiots" might actually be undercover anti-gunners.

This.

[Stats Shooter]

At this point in time, I am about 98% sure that there will be no federal ban on semi-auto rifle features. I think that the ATF is going to say that thier original interpretation of the law as it pertains to bump stocks is valid and legislation is necessary to alter it.

And by then Congress will have moved on from this such that there isn't enough momentum to get Republicans on board.....I will be an election issue in 2018 in some states, but otherwise the time has likely already passed for any action to have taken place.

And the folks on gun broker who paid $1,000 for a $100 bump stock are going to have some serious buyers remorse

However, I don't think that they will be manufacturing many of them in the near future so the price may plateau above where they were this summer