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Old April 21, 2017, 09:29 AM   #51
COSteve
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So COSteve you picked one Carbine and judged them all not particularly accurate. And then you judged one leveraction and judged them all very accurate.
Hardly. You and I know that the spec for the M1 Carbine and almost every GI one made, is 4+" at 100yds. Don't play dumb. That's the spec on it. As to the Rossi, it's common for them to produce good groups with decent ammo.

Our shooting club includes some 1,100 members, we have CMP shoots every other Friday with many members attending. Our members have lots of M1 Carbines and lots of leverguns and the fact is that the M1 Carbines aren't that accurate.

They are not now, nor were they ever designed to be a long range weapon. They were intended to be a replacement for rear echelon troops who were issued pistols so that they would have a modicum more protection. Military pistol performance is measured in feet.
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Old April 21, 2017, 09:30 AM   #52
kraigwy
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Deaf Smith:

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If any of you here are in Alaska.... and have a Carbine.... does it freeze up in the winter (presuming you dry lube it)?

Oh, and does the bullets bounce off game when it's that cold?

Deaf
No, and no I don't dry lube my rifles, when I lived in Alaska nor now here in Wyoming, where often its just as cold. When hunting in Alaska, sub zero temps, I didn't lube them at all. If I was going to do a lot of shooting, after the rifle got warm, I'd add LAW (light weight oil).

The problem with rifles in sub-zero temps is mostly caused by the gun sweating. Keep in a warm tent, then when out site, the sweat and freeze. Leave the rifle outside and you dont have that problem.

I spent a lot of time on the Bering Sea, which is not only cold, but constant blowing snow. If there is any lube, or oil on the rifle, it attracts that snow and you get problems.

Keep it dry until it warms up, then you can add oil if you are going to shoot a lot, when you're done, clean off the oil.

As to "bullets bouncing off" game when its cold. The animals you hunt are warm blooded, if their alive, their body temp. is no different then in the summer. If they are frozen................well it means they are dead and there is no reason to shoot them.
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Old April 21, 2017, 01:54 PM   #53
Deaf Smith
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4+" at 100yds. Don't play dumb. That's the spec on it.

Steve,

You saying the U.S. military specifications called for a 4 inch group at 100 yards from the Carbine? I thought it was 3 -5 MOA was the spec.

Deaf
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Last edited by Deaf Smith; April 21, 2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Old April 22, 2017, 02:58 AM   #54
44 AMP
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I don't have the specs on the carbine, but the ammo spec for .30 Carbine M1 Ball is 1.5" mean radius max avg. at 100yds.

The spec for .30 Carbine tracer M27 is 3.5" @ 100yds.
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Old April 22, 2017, 07:54 AM   #55
kraigwy
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Regardless, the limiting factor on the Carbine is not the rifle or the ammo, its the shooter.

A 3.5 MOA group is enough to clean the 100 yard targets used in the CMP Carbine matches, yet you see very few cleaned targets.

The best way to improve the Carbine's performance is rounds down range.

The Carbine is a short range rifle, 300 yards is about its max. At about 300 yards the standard government loading goes sub-sonic. The Army came up with the magic number "60 ft lbs" of energy is required to produce a disabling wound. At 300 yards the standard Carbine round develops about 285.

Even taking the extreme spread of 4 inches, that's 12 inches at 300 yards, not much larger then a human head.

So its my opinion that the Carbine, for what it was designed for, Plus being adapted for jungle warfare, is an effective weapon.

Not to mention pure fun and cheap to load for.
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