9mm, 102 gn cast bullet load development

Granite28 · September 2, 2019, 10:28 PM

I am casting and quenching a .356 diameter 102gn lead bullet. After powder coating they are sized in a .356 die. Using TiteGroup, I tested loads from 4.6 to 5.0 gn but am not happy with the results for league competition. My next powder choice is Universal. Can anyone give me other recommendations on Powders and loads for the 102 gn bullet?!

dahermit · September 2, 2019, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granite28

I am casting and quenching a .356 diameter 102gn lead bullet. After powder coating they are sized in a .356 die. Using TiteGroup, I tested loads from 4.6 to 5.0 gn but am not happy with the results for league competition. My next powder choice is Universal. Can anyone give me other recommendations on Powders and loads for the 102 gn bullet?!

Do you quench for convenience or do you think that any of the hardness you got from quenching is still there after powder coating and baking?

As for the 102 grain bullets, why are you not using the more popular for 9mm Luger, 120 grains or so? The 102's are usually used in something like a .380.

David R · September 3, 2019, 07:17 AM

Getting excellent results with 4.0 TG and a 115 HAP. 1025 FPS. (Under 2” @50 yards)

Getting almost as good results with Missouri 125 SWC Hi Tek coated with 3.5 Bullseye. 1015 FPS

Pretty good results with Missouri 147 FP and 3.4 Unique. 900 FPS

Good luck, lead and 9mm can be difficult.

David

kmw1954 · September 3, 2019, 08:15 AM

Have to agree about the 102gr. bullet. Been shooting a bunch of samples that were sent to me and they are fantastic in the 380 with 2.8gr of AA#2

Lee makes a 125gr mold just like the 102gr mold. And how do you know you don't need a .357" or 358" dia. for that 9mm? Have you slugged it?

gwpercle · September 3, 2019, 06:30 PM

If that 105 grain bullet is the Lee #356-102-1R
Lyman #4 indicates the best accuracy was with Unique powder .
Starting Load : 5.7 grs. @ 1219 fps
Maximum Load : 6.3 grs. @ 1338 fps .

In the 9mm Luger with cast bullets I get my best accuracy with 4.7 grains of Unique powder and any/all the following bullets .
Lee # 358-105-SWC
Lee # 356-120-TC
NOE #358 -124-TC-GC

This is a load on the light side worked up for a WWII Walther P38 , I don't want to batter the old war horse and the 4.7 gr. load shoots to its fixed sights with all three bullets .
It groups the 105 SWC best of all for some strange reason .
All bullets are air cooled and sized .357 .
Gary

sparkyv · September 4, 2019, 06:46 AM

HP38

T. O'Heir · September 4, 2019, 01:21 PM

"...for league competition..." That a bullseye league? The 9mm really doesn't like light weight bullets. Usually too short to feed right. My Inglis BHP really hated the 90 grain cast I tried long ago. It likes cast 121 grain bullets with Bullseye though.
Anyway, a 102 is a .380 ACP bullet. Although Hodgdon shows 65 grain jacketed bullets. None of which are match grade.
4.6 to 5.0 grains of Titegroup is jacketed bullet data. Not cast. You see any leading?

Granite28 · September 22, 2019, 05:35 PM

1. Point taken on the 102 gr bullet being too small so I have started over with a 125 gn cast bullet.

2. Quenching is only a matter for convenience here.

3. I did slug the barrel and it is .356", (see caliper photo).

This is a work in progress. I am currently using TightGroup, Bullseye, Universal and Clays. Reloading 9mm is a new cartridge for me so I am looking for powder recommendations to do some testing to develop my most accurate load.

Thanks,

kmw1954 · September 22, 2019, 10:27 PM

As for powders I've been using HP-38, AA#2 and Ramshot Silhouette with very good results.

Have also been using that 102gr cast bullet in the 380. A member sent me some to test and I liked it so much I bought a mold and am just now starting to cast my own.

What part of the state you in? I'm down on the state line, Kenosha Co.

**Unclenick** · September 23, 2019, 04:22 PM

Granite28,

You may want to try headspacing on the bullet. That is, leaving the bullet sticking out far enough to rest on the rifling leade in the throat, provided that still lets your bullet shape fit in the magazine and feed reliably. The image below shows it done with a 45 Auto.

A lot of pistols seem to have extra headspace and the cases for tapered chamber pistol cartridges, in particular, tend to shorten with resizing cycles rather than stretch. As a result, you can end up unable to headspace on the case mouth before the rim finds the extractor hook. You can headspace on an extractor hook, and it doesn't seem to bother jacketed bullets to do it, but it causes lead bullets to swage into the rifling with a slight tilt and that moves the center of gravity off-center which causes drift off the nominal trajectory, opening groups up. But headspacing on the bullet stops the drifting and reduces leading by cutting down on lead shaving by the edge of the throat. I've had it reduce groups with good quality cast bullets by 40% in the 45.

jetinteriorguy · September 24, 2019, 05:53 AM

My favorite powder for 9mm is Clays. For me it's been the most accurate and seems to just feel like a softer recoil. More of a push type recoil versus a snappy recoil. I don't have a chrono so no idea on performance, but since I just punch paper I go for accuracy and ease of follow up shots.

Granite28 · September 25, 2019, 05:04 PM

I tried Clays for the 125 gn cast bullets. Using 2.9, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 grains of powder. I had serious failure to feeds and stove piping and failure to lock open with all of these loads. My SIG P320 M17 just didn't like the Clays.

**Unclenick** · September 26, 2019, 11:59 AM

Clays is very fast, so it reaches peak pressure when the bullet has barely begun to get underway and then drops pressure quickly during expansion as the bullet goes down the barrel. As a result, some gun designs will require a target load recoil spring set to function reliably with it.

jetinteriorguy · September 28, 2019, 11:11 AM

Must be a SIG thing. I've shot thousands of 124gr Extreme copper coated truncated cone bullets over 3.2gr of Clays through a few different guns with no issues. S&W M&P, CZ P07, CZ P09, CZ75B SA, CZ75B, Ruger LC9s, Taurus PT111G2, FEG Highpower clone, Star BM, FN9C,and even my Just Right Carbine. It does make for dirty brass though.

Tsquared · October 13, 2019, 06:43 PM

I have been very happy with CFEpistol and 124/125 coated lead. It is burning clean, I am pushing 1130fps in my Colt Govt model.

Old 454 · October 16, 2019, 09:48 AM

I like green dot or power pistol for 9mm

reloader28 · October 17, 2019, 09:06 AM

The bullets are definatly to small of diameter. You need to shoot a .357 or .358. All my 380's and up get sized to .358. You have be at least .001 bigger than the bore

September 2, 2019, 10:28 PM	#1
Granite28 Junior Member Join Date: September 1, 2019 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5	9mm, 102 gn cast bullet load development I am casting and quenching a .356 diameter 102gn lead bullet. After powder coating they are sized in a .356 die. Using TiteGroup, I tested loads from 4.6 to 5.0 gn but am not happy with the results for league competition. My next powder choice is Universal. Can anyone give me other recommendations on Powders and loads for the 102 gn bullet?! __________________ NRA Life Member Pistol Instructor Metallic & Shotshell Reloading Instructor Range Safety Officer

September 3, 2019, 06:30 PM	#5
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	If that 105 grain bullet is the Lee #356-102-1R Lyman #4 indicates the best accuracy was with Unique powder . Starting Load : 5.7 grs. @ 1219 fps Maximum Load : 6.3 grs. @ 1338 fps . In the 9mm Luger with cast bullets I get my best accuracy with 4.7 grains of Unique powder and any/all the following bullets . Lee # 358-105-SWC Lee # 356-120-TC NOE #358 -124-TC-GC This is a load on the light side worked up for a WWII Walther P38 , I don't want to batter the old war horse and the 4.7 gr. load shoots to its fixed sights with all three bullets . It groups the 105 SWC best of all for some strange reason . All bullets are air cooled and sized .357 . Gary Last edited by gwpercle; September 4, 2019 at 06:50 PM.

September 4, 2019, 06:46 AM	#6
sparkyv Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2015 Location: Deepinnaheartta,Texas Posts: 318	HP38 __________________ μολὼν λαβέ NRA Life Member

September 4, 2019, 01:21 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...for league competition..." That a bullseye league? The 9mm really doesn't like light weight bullets. Usually too short to feed right. My Inglis BHP really hated the 90 grain cast I tried long ago. It likes cast 121 grain bullets with Bullseye though. Anyway, a 102 is a .380 ACP bullet. Although Hodgdon shows 65 grain jacketed bullets. None of which are match grade. 4.6 to 5.0 grains of Titegroup is jacketed bullet data. Not cast. You see any leading? __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 23, 2019, 04:22 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Granite28, You may want to try headspacing on the bullet. That is, leaving the bullet sticking out far enough to rest on the rifling leade in the throat, provided that still lets your bullet shape fit in the magazine and feed reliably. The image below shows it done with a 45 Auto. A lot of pistols seem to have extra headspace and the cases for tapered chamber pistol cartridges, in particular, tend to shorten with resizing cycles rather than stretch. As a result, you can end up unable to headspace on the case mouth before the rim finds the extractor hook. You can headspace on an extractor hook, and it doesn't seem to bother jacketed bullets to do it, but it causes lead bullets to swage into the rifling with a slight tilt and that moves the center of gravity off-center which causes drift off the nominal trajectory, opening groups up. But headspacing on the bullet stops the drifting and reduces leading by cutting down on lead shaving by the edge of the throat. I've had it reduce groups with good quality cast bullets by 40% in the 45. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 3, 2019, 07:17 AM	#3
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	9mm, 102 gn cast bullet load development Getting excellent results with 4.0 TG and a 115 HAP. 1025 FPS. (Under 2” @50 yards) Getting almost as good results with Missouri 125 SWC Hi Tek coated with 3.5 Bullseye. 1015 FPS Pretty good results with Missouri 147 FP and 3.4 Unique. 900 FPS Good luck, lead and 9mm can be difficult. David

September 3, 2019, 08:15 AM	#4
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Have to agree about the 102gr. bullet. Been shooting a bunch of samples that were sent to me and they are fantastic in the 380 with 2.8gr of AA#2 Lee makes a 125gr mold just like the 102gr mold. And how do you know you don't need a .357" or 358" dia. for that 9mm? Have you slugged it?

September 22, 2019, 10:27 PM	#9
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	As for powders I've been using HP-38, AA#2 and Ramshot Silhouette with very good results. Have also been using that 102gr cast bullet in the 380. A member sent me some to test and I liked it so much I bought a mold and am just now starting to cast my own. What part of the state you in? I'm down on the state line, Kenosha Co.

September 24, 2019, 05:53 AM	#11
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	My favorite powder for 9mm is Clays. For me it's been the most accurate and seems to just feel like a softer recoil. More of a push type recoil versus a snappy recoil. I don't have a chrono so no idea on performance, but since I just punch paper I go for accuracy and ease of follow up shots.

September 25, 2019, 05:04 PM	#12
Granite28 Junior Member Join Date: September 1, 2019 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5	I tried Clays for the 125 gn cast bullets. Using 2.9, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 grains of powder. I had serious failure to feeds and stove piping and failure to lock open with all of these loads. My SIG P320 M17 just didn't like the Clays. __________________ NRA Life Member Pistol Instructor Metallic & Shotshell Reloading Instructor Range Safety Officer

September 26, 2019, 11:59 AM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Clays is very fast, so it reaches peak pressure when the bullet has barely begun to get underway and then drops pressure quickly during expansion as the bullet goes down the barrel. As a result, some gun designs will require a target load recoil spring set to function reliably with it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 28, 2019, 11:11 AM	#14
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	Must be a SIG thing. I've shot thousands of 124gr Extreme copper coated truncated cone bullets over 3.2gr of Clays through a few different guns with no issues. S&W M&P, CZ P07, CZ P09, CZ75B SA, CZ75B, Ruger LC9s, Taurus PT111G2, FEG Highpower clone, Star BM, FN9C,and even my Just Right Carbine. It does make for dirty brass though.

October 13, 2019, 06:43 PM	#15
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I have been very happy with CFEpistol and 124/125 coated lead. It is burning clean, I am pushing 1130fps in my Colt Govt model.

October 16, 2019, 09:48 AM	#16
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	I like green dot or power pistol for 9mm

October 17, 2019, 09:06 AM	#17
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	The bullets are definatly to small of diameter. You need to shoot a .357 or .358. All my 380's and up get sized to .358. You have be at least .001 bigger than the bore