Jc Higgins 20 12 gauge

Boogsawaste · January 19, 2016, 02:05 PM

Picked one of these up the other day because I knew of them being reliable simple pump guns and came across one at the right price.

The gun seems to function check ok except for one thing. I'm not ire of its a problem or not but I noticed that the action slide release drops when the trigger is pulled (as it's supposed to) so it can be racked for another shot. From what I understand it's not supposed to drop fully until the forend stock is pushed forward by recoil during firing or by manually pushing forward when dry firing. Seems like it's supposed to be held up by friction before the forend moves forward?

Mine drops after the trigger is pulled period. The release is butted against the action slide and if I put a pretty decent force on it it'll stay up. The spring over the mag tube is there and not fully compressed. I ordered a new spring but don't know if it'll help. The edges don't look particularly worn but maybe they are?

Does this bolt stay in place by other forces from firing because I'm afraid that the with the release dropping the slide will slam back when fired. Anyone know or have theirs handy to check?

Thanks for any help.
__________________

**4V50 Gary** · January 19, 2016, 03:26 PM

I'm not familiar with the JC Higgins Model 20, but generally as soon as the hammer is forward (gun is discharged), the tension on the slide release is gone, allowing the action to be worked without pushing the slide release button.

Boogsawaste · January 19, 2016, 03:43 PM

That's wha I thought but I read an old post on here by Dixie Gunsmithing saying that the action slide and release should stay mated together until you pull forward on the forend grip on these. And if the release drops while dry firing somethings wrong. If I press the trigger and slowly let the hammer travel about 1/2-2/3 way the release drops. So it's dropping before the hammer is fully extended. Now will the hammer travel faster than the release? I'd guess so, maybe?

The bolt cams up into the receiver on these and I wasn't sure if that action along was enough to keep it from blowing back. I believe these guns to be made by high standard and maybe called a model 200 or flight king or something. They're similar and maybe even the same gun?

ammo.crafter · January 19, 2016, 04:26 PM

I believe they were made by Marlin.

Dixie Gunsmithing · January 19, 2016, 05:44 PM

I think your gun is the same as the the same as a High Standard Flite King, or their model 200. In that gun, technically, the action slide release button should not depress when you dry fire it, but only after you give the forearm a small tug forward. That happens normally, when you shoot it, so you don't notice it.

These shotguns were designed by an ex-Winchester engineer named Fredrick Humeston, who carried over several ideas from the model 12 Winchester, and this button was one that was similar. He also used some ideas from the Remington model 31. In the parts dwg. look at part number (6), which is called the action slide spring. It supposed to hold the forearm back under pressure, (push it back toward the receiver), which creates a friction fit between the action slide (1), and the action slide release lever (2). When dry firing, this friction should not allow the lever (2), and it's button to move, until you counter the action spring on the magazine tube, by giving the forearm a tug forward. When you do give it a slight tug, then the button should go in, and you be able to rack the bolt with the forearm.

I have seen these springs get weak, or gummed up, and this safety feature quit working. Also, the release lever's cam that sets against the action slide, can get worn, and it not hold, but my guess is that the spring is not working correctly.

Copyright Gun Parts Corp.

Parts:

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...-120-40904.htm

Boogsawaste · January 19, 2016, 08:07 PM

Thanks for the information. So this is indeed a safety function that ceased to work on mine. Is it really likely that the action slide will go back far enough and pull the bolt out of its recess? Of course, I want to straighten it out as I think it should be repaired, but I hate putting in more money than it's worth if it's something over engineered. I already ordered the action slide spring but if that doesn't take care of it I'm guessing the next items would be the release and the action slide itself?

I took some close up pics with my cell phone of these couple areas. If anything looks bad/worn to anyone please advise. There are no smiths in the area that work on these guns that I know of.

Boogsawaste · January 20, 2016, 01:59 PM

I should add that the reason I'm asking is I see Winchester 12's for sale that often exhibit the same issue. I know it's not the same gun but the bolt locks up in the receiver in a similar fashion and the release functions similar too with needing to push the action forward to release it. I'm new to owning shotguns but I can't recall hearing of any 12's blowing open after firing.

Again, I'm hoping the spring fixes this up but if it doesn't I have to figure out the next move.

Dixie Gunsmithing · January 20, 2016, 02:12 PM

If you notice, on the action slide lock's cam face, there's a bright spot on it, where it contacts that tit that sticks out from the slide. Those can get worn, and that lock looks to have wear on it. The slide is generally hardened, but it still may have some wear on it too.

One fix you might try, if the spring will not cure it, is to try sand blasting the front of that action slide lock, to roughen it back up, and maybe that tit on the slide. That is, if you have, or know someone who has a small sand blast outfit. Also, make sure the contact angle of each piece is not worn down, or rounded over, as that flat angle is what sets the friction amount, and the release clearance.

When you get the new spring, compare it to the old one, and see if there is any difference in length, as if the old one is bad, it will be shorter. I have stretched the old ones, and they work all right for a while, but a new one will be the best bet.

For the price, these are a very well made gun. High Standard made some fine shotguns, though they're more famous for their pistols. On this model, both High Standard and Sears Roebuck owned the patent on it, thus it was made more as a JC Higgins, when you see one.

The model 12 does work similar, but the action lock works against the back of the slide rod that is attached to the forearm on those, and not on an action slide under the bolt. The action slide idea came from Remington, because they couldn't use the Winchester design over a patent. Thus, you have designs from both Remington and Winchester in that gun.

Boogsawaste · January 20, 2016, 02:45 PM

Very informative, thank you. I will blast those pieces if the spring doesn't work. If that doesn't work either I'll look for a new release and possibly slide.

As far as looking for wear, the slide is slightly rounded on the contact surface from what I can see. I have nothing to compare it to so I'm not sure if it's normal or not. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself here though. Spring first and I'll report back either way.

I won't fire the gun until I have it straightened out either. I'm a lefty so my right arm is too close to the ejection port for comfort if it were to blow open.

Dixie Gunsmithing · January 21, 2016, 12:47 PM

Below is the patent drawing on this gun, and from it, you can see how the action slide lock works. You'll notice a small pin (91) protruding from the hammer, that mashes down on a small wire spring (89), which is attached to the action slide lock (85). That spring is what makes the action slide lock unlock after firing. However, it is not stout enough to overcome the friction formed by the large coil spring pushing back the action slide rod on the magazine tube, and thus pushing back the action slide. That is why a small tug forward releases the friction, allowing the wire spring to push down the front of the action slide lock, and thus, the button pushes in at the rear.

This patent shows a spring and a plunger in the action slide, that yours wont have. Yours has the coil spring on the magazine tube in its place.

HS Fliteking Pat by Will Matney, on Flickr

Boogsawaste · January 21, 2016, 02:53 PM

That really clears up what's going on inside of the trigger group. Appreciate that! I'll report back once I have the spring.

KEYBEAR · January 21, 2016, 07:52 PM

I got a Model 20 (used) about 1956 and still have it and use it
The Model 20 was made is 12ga, and 16ga I have never seen a 20ga ..
The older guns like mine are all the same but for the trigger guard the old ones are steel .

January 19, 2016, 02:05 PM	#1
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	Jc Higgins 20 12 gauge Picked one of these up the other day because I knew of them being reliable simple pump guns and came across one at the right price. The gun seems to function check ok except for one thing. I'm not ire of its a problem or not but I noticed that the action slide release drops when the trigger is pulled (as it's supposed to) so it can be racked for another shot. From what I understand it's not supposed to drop fully until the forend stock is pushed forward by recoil during firing or by manually pushing forward when dry firing. Seems like it's supposed to be held up by friction before the forend moves forward? Mine drops after the trigger is pulled period. The release is butted against the action slide and if I put a pretty decent force on it it'll stay up. The spring over the mag tube is there and not fully compressed. I ordered a new spring but don't know if it'll help. The edges don't look particularly worn but maybe they are? Does this bolt stay in place by other forces from firing because I'm afraid that the with the release dropping the slide will slam back when fired. Anyone know or have theirs handy to check? Thanks for any help. __________________

January 19, 2016, 03:26 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	I'm not familiar with the JC Higgins Model 20, but generally as soon as the hammer is forward (gun is discharged), the tension on the slide release is gone, allowing the action to be worked without pushing the slide release button. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 19, 2016, 04:26 PM	#4
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	Hmmmm I believe they were made by Marlin. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

January 19, 2016, 03:43 PM	#3
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	That's wha I thought but I read an old post on here by Dixie Gunsmithing saying that the action slide and release should stay mated together until you pull forward on the forend grip on these. And if the release drops while dry firing somethings wrong. If I press the trigger and slowly let the hammer travel about 1/2-2/3 way the release drops. So it's dropping before the hammer is fully extended. Now will the hammer travel faster than the release? I'd guess so, maybe? The bolt cams up into the receiver on these and I wasn't sure if that action along was enough to keep it from blowing back. I believe these guns to be made by high standard and maybe called a model 200 or flight king or something. They're similar and maybe even the same gun?

January 19, 2016, 05:44 PM	#5
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	I think your gun is the same as the the same as a High Standard Flite King, or their model 200. In that gun, technically, the action slide release button should not depress when you dry fire it, but only after you give the forearm a small tug forward. That happens normally, when you shoot it, so you don't notice it. These shotguns were designed by an ex-Winchester engineer named Fredrick Humeston, who carried over several ideas from the model 12 Winchester, and this button was one that was similar. He also used some ideas from the Remington model 31. In the parts dwg. look at part number (6), which is called the action slide spring. It supposed to hold the forearm back under pressure, (push it back toward the receiver), which creates a friction fit between the action slide (1), and the action slide release lever (2). When dry firing, this friction should not allow the lever (2), and it's button to move, until you counter the action spring on the magazine tube, by giving the forearm a tug forward. When you do give it a slight tug, then the button should go in, and you be able to rack the bolt with the forearm. I have seen these springs get weak, or gummed up, and this safety feature quit working. Also, the release lever's cam that sets against the action slide, can get worn, and it not hold, but my guess is that the spring is not working correctly. Copyright Gun Parts Corp. Parts: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...-120-40904.htm

January 19, 2016, 08:07 PM	#6
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	Thanks for the information. So this is indeed a safety function that ceased to work on mine. Is it really likely that the action slide will go back far enough and pull the bolt out of its recess? Of course, I want to straighten it out as I think it should be repaired, but I hate putting in more money than it's worth if it's something over engineered. I already ordered the action slide spring but if that doesn't take care of it I'm guessing the next items would be the release and the action slide itself? I took some close up pics with my cell phone of these couple areas. If anything looks bad/worn to anyone please advise. There are no smiths in the area that work on these guns that I know of.

January 20, 2016, 01:59 PM	#7
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	I should add that the reason I'm asking is I see Winchester 12's for sale that often exhibit the same issue. I know it's not the same gun but the bolt locks up in the receiver in a similar fashion and the release functions similar too with needing to push the action forward to release it. I'm new to owning shotguns but I can't recall hearing of any 12's blowing open after firing. Again, I'm hoping the spring fixes this up but if it doesn't I have to figure out the next move.

January 20, 2016, 02:12 PM	#8
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	If you notice, on the action slide lock's cam face, there's a bright spot on it, where it contacts that tit that sticks out from the slide. Those can get worn, and that lock looks to have wear on it. The slide is generally hardened, but it still may have some wear on it too. One fix you might try, if the spring will not cure it, is to try sand blasting the front of that action slide lock, to roughen it back up, and maybe that tit on the slide. That is, if you have, or know someone who has a small sand blast outfit. Also, make sure the contact angle of each piece is not worn down, or rounded over, as that flat angle is what sets the friction amount, and the release clearance. When you get the new spring, compare it to the old one, and see if there is any difference in length, as if the old one is bad, it will be shorter. I have stretched the old ones, and they work all right for a while, but a new one will be the best bet. For the price, these are a very well made gun. High Standard made some fine shotguns, though they're more famous for their pistols. On this model, both High Standard and Sears Roebuck owned the patent on it, thus it was made more as a JC Higgins, when you see one. The model 12 does work similar, but the action lock works against the back of the slide rod that is attached to the forearm on those, and not on an action slide under the bolt. The action slide idea came from Remington, because they couldn't use the Winchester design over a patent. Thus, you have designs from both Remington and Winchester in that gun.

January 20, 2016, 02:45 PM	#9
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	Very informative, thank you. I will blast those pieces if the spring doesn't work. If that doesn't work either I'll look for a new release and possibly slide. As far as looking for wear, the slide is slightly rounded on the contact surface from what I can see. I have nothing to compare it to so I'm not sure if it's normal or not. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself here though. Spring first and I'll report back either way. I won't fire the gun until I have it straightened out either. I'm a lefty so my right arm is too close to the ejection port for comfort if it were to blow open.

January 21, 2016, 12:47 PM	#10
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Below is the patent drawing on this gun, and from it, you can see how the action slide lock works. You'll notice a small pin (91) protruding from the hammer, that mashes down on a small wire spring (89), which is attached to the action slide lock (85). That spring is what makes the action slide lock unlock after firing. However, it is not stout enough to overcome the friction formed by the large coil spring pushing back the action slide rod on the magazine tube, and thus pushing back the action slide. That is why a small tug forward releases the friction, allowing the wire spring to push down the front of the action slide lock, and thus, the button pushes in at the rear. This patent shows a spring and a plunger in the action slide, that yours wont have. Yours has the coil spring on the magazine tube in its place. HS Fliteking Pat by Will Matney, on Flickr

January 21, 2016, 02:53 PM	#11
Boogsawaste Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2013 Posts: 6	That really clears up what's going on inside of the trigger group. Appreciate that! I'll report back once I have the spring.

January 21, 2016, 07:52 PM	#12
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	I got a Model 20 (used) about 1956 and still have it and use it The Model 20 was made is 12ga, and 16ga I have never seen a 20ga .. The older guns like mine are all the same but for the trigger guard the old ones are steel .