Police Officers shot by CCWs - Page 2

csmsss · July 18, 2010, 10:23 AM

No, I don't have an anti-police agenda. My agenda is merely to get to the truth of things, without preconceived notions based on faulty or mieleading assumptions. Your primary POV seems to be that the LEO should always be assumed to be in the right. Mine is that such assumptions are dangerous and inaccurate, and that each event needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Moreover, it's all too tempting to apply the wrong statistics - which is exactly what you are trying to do in this case. Assuming that shootings of LEO's by CCW's is exactly analogous to, and driven by the same dynamics as, shootings of police officers by citizens in general is incredibly presumptive and without any sort of valid basis.

Wagonman · July 18, 2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

No, I don't have an anti-police agenda. My agenda is merely to get to the truth of things, without preconceived notions based on faulty or mieleading assumptions. Your primary POV seems to be that the LEO should always be assumed to be in the right. Mine is that such assumptions are dangerous and inaccurate, and that each event needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Moreover, it's all too tempting to apply the wrong statistics - which is exactly what you are trying to do in this case. Assuming that shootings of LEO's by CCW's is exactly analogous to, and driven by the same dynamics as, shootings of police officers by citizens in general is incredibly presumptive and without any sort of valid basis

Yes, I believe that Coppers on duty acting under color of law doing their jobs should be assumed to be in the right.

I don't even understand what you are talking about. I am looking for information that I can use to buttress my arguement when Chicago finally seriously discusses CCW
Because, I am on the safety committee at the FOP and am going to attempt to influence the PTB to support CCW and if I can do that it will take another lie away from the mayor.

But this Who struck John is a waste of my time.

Al Norris · July 18, 2010, 10:58 AM

To get back on topic....

Wagonman, while I haven't looked at these things for several years, I believe that both the States of Florida and Texas have the stats you seek. Try a google search for them.

Anybody know any crime stat URLs to these? I've forgotten them or lost the links.

I would think that since Utah does a check on all their CCW holders every day, they might also have some stats you could use.

It may require you to email the various dept. heads in these States, to get the specific info you desire.

Wagonman · July 18, 2010, 02:54 PM

Cool, I will look at those sources. I was hoping for one stop shopping,though.

m&p45acp10+1 · July 18, 2010, 08:58 PM

I am not sure on the stats, but I can say it would be a very low number.
Trivial fact given by a Tx CHL instructor. The number one criminal offense that has lost more CHL liscense than any other by a wide margin is DUI. I heard that today when at the range from the instructor.

Sefner · July 19, 2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m&p45acp10+1

I am not sure on the stats, but I can say it would be a very low number.
Trivial fact given by a Tx CHL instructor. The number one criminal offense that has lost more CHL liscense than any other by a wide margin is DUI. I heard that today when at the range from the instructor.

This is true in MI. In fact, Michigan publishes statistics for CCW permit revocations here: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...t_181416_7.pdf

That PDF is for July 1 2005 to June 30-2006 in total there were 108 revocations... some highlights (convictions = revocations, more complete data is at the link).

15 convictions of "Operating while impaired", an additional 11 for "Operating while intoxicated" and another 11 for other alcohol related incidents.

18 revocations for failure to disclose (MI is a state where you must immediately disclose to a peace officer when you are carrying).

6 assault and battery, 5 domestic violence...

There are a lot of pending cases, but I'm sure a lot of those get thrown out (there is a column for cases dropped).

July 18, 2010, 08:58 PM	#30
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I am not sure on the stats, but I can say it would be a very low number. Trivial fact given by a Tx CHL instructor. The number one criminal offense that has lost more CHL liscense than any other by a wide margin is DUI. I heard that today when at the range from the instructor. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

July 18, 2010, 10:23 AM	#26
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	No, I don't have an anti-police agenda. My agenda is merely to get to the truth of things, without preconceived notions based on faulty or mieleading assumptions. Your primary POV seems to be that the LEO should always be assumed to be in the right. Mine is that such assumptions are dangerous and inaccurate, and that each event needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Moreover, it's all too tempting to apply the wrong statistics - which is exactly what you are trying to do in this case. Assuming that shootings of LEO's by CCW's is exactly analogous to, and driven by the same dynamics as, shootings of police officers by citizens in general is incredibly presumptive and without any sort of valid basis.

July 18, 2010, 10:58 AM	#28
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	To get back on topic.... Wagonman, while I haven't looked at these things for several years, I believe that both the States of Florida and Texas have the stats you seek. Try a google search for them. Anybody know any crime stat URLs to these? I've forgotten them or lost the links. I would think that since Utah does a check on all their CCW holders every day, they might also have some stats you could use. It may require you to email the various dept. heads in these States, to get the specific info you desire.

July 18, 2010, 02:54 PM	#29
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	Cool, I will look at those sources. I was hoping for one stop shopping,though.