February 16, 2019, 12:37 AM | #1 |
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Old .38ACP Peters ammo
I ended up with these 6 rounds of Peters .38ACP ammunition.
The bullets look like they are steel-jacketed, but they do not attract a magnet. They appear to be copper-jacketed bullets with either zinc or tin plating over the copper jacket. The headstamp is PETERS .38 A.C.P. I would be interested to know when these were made although that might be a tall order. Peters was bought out by Remington in the mid 1930s, but they continued to use the name for some time. However, the .38ACP wasn't a common round--maybe that combined with the headstamp might provide some clues.
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February 16, 2019, 02:22 AM | #2 |
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You find the neatest stuff to ponder.
I'm just going off of vague memories here, but if we knew whether those were cupronickel or tin washed copper- that could help narrow things down a bit. Cupronickel was being phased out by the early 20's in pistol ammo. That cannelure in the case should have gone to the knurled look or gone by the med 30's when the .38 Super came into it's own. Not much help, huh?
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February 16, 2019, 12:23 PM | #3 |
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I would suggest asking your question here:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/ It's an unusual cartridge for sure. |
February 16, 2019, 04:10 PM | #4 | |
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This ammo spent some time up in your neck of the woods. The rounds were probably originally owned by a person who lived in Lamesa at one point and who passed away in Lubbock in the 1960s. These 6 loose rounds were in a package deal that included a full box of Remington conventional copper jacketed .38ACP ammo. That ammo was made in 1961 or 62, based on the printing pattern on the box. I have some reason to believe that the loose rounds could be a lot older than that but no way to prove it. By the way, I did find another picture of a round that appears to be similar on the Wikipedia page for .38 ACP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_ACP I may have to give the cartridge collector's forum a try, thanks for the link.
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February 16, 2019, 08:25 PM | #5 |
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Not certain, but I think the silver is the nickel in the cupro-nickel jacket.
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February 16, 2019, 09:15 PM | #6 |
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It's some kind of plating/coating. In places it has oxidized/worn off and copper is clearly visible underneath.
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February 16, 2019, 09:50 PM | #7 |
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I found one 38 ACP by Remington umc that is newer then the peters the bullet looks to be the same.
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February 16, 2019, 10:30 PM | #8 |
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Interesting. It is my understanding that Remington continued selling Peters branded ammo for decades after purchasing them in the 1930s.
The cartridge you picture does not have the cannelure which, based on 10-96's comment might mean that it's much newer.
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February 17, 2019, 12:32 AM | #9 |
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This photo is from a 1957 Stoeger shooters bible # 48
H.S = high speed M.C = metal case O.P = oil proof O.T = oil tite |
February 17, 2019, 02:22 AM | #10 |
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I found a pic of some 1918 dated .45ACP rounds on a search found on Gunboards. They have the same tin washed appearance and cannelure as your .38ACP's.
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...al-projectiles So, maybe that could hint at an era of 1918 to 1935-ish?
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February 17, 2019, 04:30 PM | #11 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I believe that the newer Remington full box of ammo was likely purchased by the second owner of the gun who inherited it in the 1960s while these 6 loose rounds came from the original owner. I was mostly interested to know if the original owner bought it, or if the second owner might have. Based on what we're seeing here, it seems much more likely that the original owner of the gun purchased these rounds long before the gun changed hands. I registered on the cartridge collectors website and posted a question there--so far no responses...
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February 18, 2019, 06:02 PM | #12 |
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"However, the .38ACP wasn't a common round--maybe that combined with the headstamp might provide some clues."
Peters cataloged the .38 ACP cartridge for over 50 years, so yeah, it was common enough. I found, in a color Peters catalog from the 1920s, a .38 ACP cartridge that looks very much like that. The 1948 catalog also shows the same style bullet, but it appears that at that time the cases had been nickeled. The 1952 catalog, though, seems to show a brass case and a copper colored bullet. Remington purchased Peters in 1934 and continued to manufacture ammunition at Kings Mills, Ohio, as the Peters Cartridge Division. Boxes were also marked Peters Du Pont. Du Pont had purchased Remington the year before Remington purchased Peters. The Peters headstamp was used on metallic ammunition until, I believe, the 1960s; the R-P headstamp was also used for many years. Realistically, there's often no way to narrow down the production year for an individual cartridge.
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February 18, 2019, 06:04 PM | #13 |
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If you want to make a more in depth search of Peters catalogs, you can see many here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/ammun...atalogs/Peters
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February 18, 2019, 09:29 PM | #14 |
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I guess what I was trying to get across with the statement about commonality was that the .38ACP wasn't around very long before the guns and the cartridge were made almost obsolete by the .38SUPER.
Thanks for the links to the catalogs. Very interesting resource.
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February 19, 2019, 08:09 AM | #15 |
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"I guess what I was trying to get across with the statement about commonality was that the .38ACP wasn't around very long before the guns and the cartridge were made almost obsolete by the .38SUPER."
Realistically, the .38 Super made the .38 ACP round obsolete in the same way that the .38-44 made the original .38 Special obsolete. It didn't. At least not quickly. After about 1930 guns were no longer chambered specifically for the .38 ACP but there were still more than enough guns chambered for the cartridge in circulation for it to be viable for the ammunition companies for many years.
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February 19, 2019, 08:33 AM | #16 | |
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Quote:
Winchester had the 38 Auto in their catalog up to at least 1981. Remington had the 38 Auto in their 1969 catalog. It was not in their 1977 catalog but it reappeared in their 1983 and 1992 catalogs. |
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February 19, 2019, 08:43 AM | #17 | |
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Even Colt's 1932 advertisements listed the cartridge for the Super 38 pistol as 38 Automatic, and at the same velocity as the 38 Auto ammo had been at the time - up to 1190 to 1200 fps. Only in 1933 was the ammo referred to as Super, and it boasted a speed of 1300 fps (all with 130 grain bullets.) Reference: Sheldon, Douglas G. 1997. Colt's Super .38, The Production History From 1929 Through 1971. Quick Vend, Inc. Willernie, MN. |
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February 19, 2019, 09:34 AM | #18 |
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"Only in 1933 was the ammo referred to as Super, and it boasted a speed of 1300 fps (all with 130 grain bullets.)"
Yep, around 1930.
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