'Red Zone' - shooting at gas station

Jeff Thomas · June 20, 2000, 03:42 PM

In the spirit of considering different self defense scenarios, please give me your opinions on this one ... based upon a TV (Cops, as I recall?) story.

You and your significant other pull into a self serve gas station. The station is on an intersection, and the cross streets are full of traffic. Your significant other is insulted by some fellows in the car on the other side of the pumps (street side). They look like gangsters. You hear something about the color she is wearing.

You're at the rear of the car, pumping fuel. She is in the car, passenger side. There is one 'gangster' at the back of his car, pumping fuel as well. The two 'gangsters' in the other car are beginning to get out of their car.

What action(s) do you take, if any.

Regards from AZ

bullseyekp · June 21, 2000, 11:24 AM

Jeff,

CCW or not? I think that has a lot to do with the situation. Anytime I leave my comfortable suburb I have a weapon nearby.

My first priority would be to move to the passenger side of the car and get the wife behind the front wheel if the threats are still moving closer. Remaining in the car would make her a much easier target but running might also do the same. If the "gangstas" get close enough and are intent on harming you, draw and fire away!

I go to school in a very bad part of town and in the past year, one student has been shot and several citizens in the area have been shot and died as a result. Although I try to avoid filling up the tank near that part of town, every once in a while it has to be done. I have run through this scenario in my head numerous time and it helps to have a plan. Sitiuational awareness is also a key in an instance such as this. You have to be able to think and move very quickly.

I also think it depends on how hostile your antagonists are. But it is probably best to treat them all as severe threats.

All the above is IMHO.

Some of the schooled tacticians on this board may have a better solution to the scenario.

------------------
"When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise."
--Proverbs 10:19

Skyhawk · June 21, 2000, 01:41 PM

Take the gas nozzle in one hand and a BIC lighter in the other…?

Skyhawk

Art Eatman · June 22, 2000, 07:27 PM

Skyhawk, me lad, I like the way your mind works. And you can always claim it was an accident!

Situational awareness; Condition "Yellow-and-a-half!"

It might not be a bad idea to pre-plan for a "bad neighborhood" situation. Or even late at night on an Interstate, since you don't really know if it's a "bad" or a "good" area. That is, consider having the passenger move to the driver's seat upon first stopping at the pump. If possible, use the pumps closest to the office-area.

Given that this sort of thing is indeed a real-world problem, why not make a "planning run" or two, and run your scenarios through your mind?

FWIW, Art

Young Buck · June 23, 2000, 04:36 PM

Sort of on the topic, you can find this and many other situations (The RED ZONE archives) at www.recguns.com/ if you want to run the whole deal, I'd reccommend it. Lots of fun, too.

------------------
To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

Young Buck · June 23, 2000, 04:46 PM

Sorry to post twice in a row, but I posted while forgetting what my actual posting intention was!

Anyway, I'd agree with those involved that moving my signifigant other to the driver's side seat is the best option..... It'd hold up better in court if you took all defensive actions before you opened fire. Especially if they decided to sue you. so,
1)move other to the driver's seat
2)verbal warning
3) (if warning not heeded) draw, rack, and point at the nearest threat
4)(again, if threat does not heed) fire until he/she/it drops, reload, hold for the police

------------------
To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

Landtec308SWS · September 21, 2000, 08:51 PM

When I was in high school I worked in a Full service/Self service station at night.Cliff a regular customer that I knew well had pulled up to the self serve pump just in front of a man who was pulling in from the opposite direction.The other man was visiably upset and started blowing his horn and swearing.He immediately got out of his car with a shortened baseball bat and started toward Cliff.Cliff immediately doused the man with gasoline and produced a Zippo lighter.I never heard him say a word. The man immediately ceased his avdance,proceded in removing his t-shirt and swearing at the top of his lungs.The man went to the pay phone on the corner of the parking lot and called 911.After taking statements from all the witnesses,(me and another co-worker)the responding officers let everyone go home.It was by far one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

Country Boy · September 21, 2000, 09:02 PM

FWIW, if I were ALONE when the shooting started, I would want to be behind the engine block of the car. Cover, not concealment. Not sure when there is another. Got me thinking...

LASur5r · September 22, 2000, 04:55 PM

Skyhawk and Art Eatman,
Shame on you guys...a good Martial artist always leaves a way out.
Draw a line of gas, dare them to cross the line, and then ask them if they can say, "Bic?"

June 20, 2000, 03:42 PM	#1
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	In the spirit of considering different self defense scenarios, please give me your opinions on this one ... based upon a TV (Cops, as I recall?) story. You and your significant other pull into a self serve gas station. The station is on an intersection, and the cross streets are full of traffic. Your significant other is insulted by some fellows in the car on the other side of the pumps (street side). They look like gangsters. You hear something about the color she is wearing. You're at the rear of the car, pumping fuel. She is in the car, passenger side. There is one 'gangster' at the back of his car, pumping fuel as well. The two 'gangsters' in the other car are beginning to get out of their car. What action(s) do you take, if any. Regards from AZ

June 21, 2000, 11:24 AM	#2
bullseyekp Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2000 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 118	Jeff, CCW or not? I think that has a lot to do with the situation. Anytime I leave my comfortable suburb I have a weapon nearby. My first priority would be to move to the passenger side of the car and get the wife behind the front wheel if the threats are still moving closer. Remaining in the car would make her a much easier target but running might also do the same. If the "gangstas" get close enough and are intent on harming you, draw and fire away! I go to school in a very bad part of town and in the past year, one student has been shot and several citizens in the area have been shot and died as a result. Although I try to avoid filling up the tank near that part of town, every once in a while it has to be done. I have run through this scenario in my head numerous time and it helps to have a plan. Sitiuational awareness is also a key in an instance such as this. You have to be able to think and move very quickly. I also think it depends on how hostile your antagonists are. But it is probably best to treat them all as severe threats. All the above is IMHO. Some of the schooled tacticians on this board may have a better solution to the scenario. ------------------ "When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise." --Proverbs 10:19

June 21, 2000, 01:41 PM	#3
Skyhawk Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2000 Posts: 616	Take the gas nozzle in one hand and a BIC lighter in the other…? Skyhawk

June 22, 2000, 07:27 PM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Skyhawk, me lad, I like the way your mind works. And you can always claim it was an accident! Situational awareness; Condition "Yellow-and-a-half!" It might not be a bad idea to pre-plan for a "bad neighborhood" situation. Or even late at night on an Interstate, since you don't really know if it's a "bad" or a "good" area. That is, consider having the passenger move to the driver's seat upon first stopping at the pump. If possible, use the pumps closest to the office-area. Given that this sort of thing is indeed a real-world problem, why not make a "planning run" or two, and run your scenarios through your mind? FWIW, Art

June 23, 2000, 04:36 PM	#5
Young Buck Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2000 Location: Havertown, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 13	Sort of on the topic, you can find this and many other situations (The RED ZONE archives) at www.recguns.com/ if you want to run the whole deal, I'd reccommend it. Lots of fun, too. ------------------ To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

June 23, 2000, 04:46 PM	#6
Young Buck Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2000 Location: Havertown, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 13	Sorry to post twice in a row, but I posted while forgetting what my actual posting intention was! Anyway, I'd agree with those involved that moving my signifigant other to the driver's side seat is the best option..... It'd hold up better in court if you took all defensive actions before you opened fire. Especially if they decided to sue you. so, 1)move other to the driver's seat 2)verbal warning 3) (if warning not heeded) draw, rack, and point at the nearest threat 4)(again, if threat does not heed) fire until he/she/it drops, reload, hold for the police ------------------ To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

September 21, 2000, 08:51 PM	#7
Landtec308SWS Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2000 Posts: 12	When I was in high school I worked in a Full service/Self service station at night.Cliff a regular customer that I knew well had pulled up to the self serve pump just in front of a man who was pulling in from the opposite direction.The other man was visiably upset and started blowing his horn and swearing.He immediately got out of his car with a shortened baseball bat and started toward Cliff.Cliff immediately doused the man with gasoline and produced a Zippo lighter.I never heard him say a word. The man immediately ceased his avdance,proceded in removing his t-shirt and swearing at the top of his lungs.The man went to the pay phone on the corner of the parking lot and called 911.After taking statements from all the witnesses,(me and another co-worker)the responding officers let everyone go home.It was by far one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

September 21, 2000, 09:02 PM	#8
Country Boy Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2000 Location: Northern Border Posts: 699	FWIW, if I were ALONE when the shooting started, I would want to be behind the engine block of the car. Cover, not concealment. Not sure when there is another. Got me thinking...

September 22, 2000, 04:55 PM	#9
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Skyhawk and Art Eatman, Shame on you guys...a good Martial artist always leaves a way out. Draw a line of gas, dare them to cross the line, and then ask them if they can say, "Bic?"