Illinois Concealed Carry Renewal

Prof Young · July 27, 2018, 02:11 PM

Talking to Katie the range lady today I learned that, in Illinois, when it comes time to renew a concealed carry permit, one must take a three hour refresher course that includes range time. At first I though this was a bit much, then she told me about the recent renewal class her boss had taught. Apparently most of the class had spent very little time with their guns in the five years that had passed since they first got a CC permit. Some did not know how to load their guns. One person was putting two fingers (one left and one right) on the trigger. Hmmmm . . . . Maybe the legislators who created and passed the laws about CC renewal were not so far off the mark.

Don P · July 27, 2018, 02:29 PM

In my opinion I would say piss poor training to start with or idiots that should not have guns

K_Mac · July 27, 2018, 06:34 PM

Passing the Illinois Concealed Carry proficiency test does not mean that one is skilled using a handgun. It simply means one has demonstrated they know which end of the gun to point at the target, how to load/reload, and how to put 30 total rounds more or less on a B27 target at 3, 7, and10 yards without hurting anyone. This doesn't disqualify anyone that I've ever heard of and it certainly doesn't mean one is trained to effectively carry a gun.

Cheapshooter · July 27, 2018, 08:59 PM

Just more ways for the People's Republic of Illinois to discourage the concealed carry that the politicians in Chicago never wanted to happen in the first place!

Mike38 · July 28, 2018, 12:22 AM

If a person can not pass the live fire portion of the Illinois CCL, they should not own a gun. IMO, it's too easy. Only 21 of 30 rounds fired need to hit the black of the B27 target. That means 9 rounds could hit anything and everything except what you are supposed to hit. That's scary. The qualification target doesn't get scored by the printed points, but the shooter could score as low as a 147 out of a possible 300-30X and still pass. Again, scary. When I shot my live fire qualification I scored a 300-27X, and was disappointed in myself. The guy to my immediate left failed his first attempt. I was happy to get mine done and get out of the range before I got hurt. I think a person should have to put all 30 rounds on paper at the very minimum.

HistoryJunky · July 28, 2018, 02:21 AM

I took qualification with my M&P 40 that I had never shot until then and still got 30/30. I had a fair bit of previous handgun experience.

My instructor was very good and taught us much more than the minimum requirement .

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rodfac · July 28, 2018, 07:02 AM

There are idiots out there for sure...for example, we've all seen them on the highways driving like they were immersed in a video game...and we all hope they'll show some individual responsibility and return to sanity. But where in the 2nd Amendment does it specify proficiency with any arm? Allowing politicians to mandate "improvements" in the name of "safety" or any other reason, is lunacy. YMMV, Rod

grinner · July 28, 2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof Young

Talking to Katie the range lady today I learned that, in Illinois, when it comes time to renew a concealed carry permit, one must take a three hour refresher course that includes range time. At first I though this was a bit much, then she told me about the recent renewal class her boss had taught. Apparently most of the class had spent very little time with their guns in the five years that had passed since they first got a CC permit. Some did not know how to load their guns. One person was putting two fingers (one left and one right) on the trigger. Hmmmm . . . . Maybe the legislators who created and passed the laws about CC renewal were not so far off the mark.

What’s scarier are the people who haven’t even taken a minimal training class, have never even fired a gun, but own one and keep it loaded beside their bed.

There was a thread on another forum I read from time to time started by a very sincere man who wanted his elderly mother to carry a semi-auto and was trying to convince her to do so, even though she didn’t want to, didn’t want to train, and couldn’t remember how to even operate the pistol a few days after he showed her how. The thread quickly devolved into arguments over specific guns, semi-autos vs. revolvers, and whether she should be shooting .22 or 9 mm.

I don’t recall anyone questioning whether she should have a gun or not. And that scares me a little.

unit 900 · July 29, 2018, 10:21 AM

I attended a LEOSA qual session and one police retiree loaded the rounds backwards in his Glock mags. Qualification is a liabilty hedge, no more than that.

K_Mac · July 29, 2018, 01:56 PM

I completely agree that governmental involvement in regulating the keeping and bearing of firearms is a slippery slope. I also believe that carrying a gun is an enterprise that brings with it serious responsibility. Fools and idiots have the same rights as the rest of us, until they don't. Preserving liberty while protecting individuals and society at large is the responsibility of we the people and our government. No thinking person has ever said that is easy.

Cheapshooter · July 29, 2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

There are idiots out there for sure...for example, we've all seen them on the highways driving like they were immersed in a video game...and we all hope they'll show some individual responsibility and return to sanity. But where in the 2nd Amendment does it specify proficiency with any arm? Allowing politicians to mandate "improvements" in the name of "safety" or any other reason, is lunacy. YMMV, Rod

Exactly! How well you think a proficiency in knowledge of the Constitution requirement to vote would go over. Probably make a much better government, but it is not written in the Constitution either.

Laz · July 30, 2018, 12:14 AM

Quote:

I don’t recall anyone questioning whether she should have a gun or not. And that scares me a little

Liberty, by its nature, is messy. “Shall not be infringed” means some people are not going to be very skilled, or perhaps even very safe. The whole idea of personal self defense is for everyone to have the means to defend themselves. Just like 100 or 200 years ago. Not everyone will become or desire to become a skilled pistolero. The rub, as always, is who gets to “question whether she should have a gun”? Me? You? The Senate? The Sheriff? A judge? The opposition party?How much and what kind of “gun control” (which is what you are talking about) is acceptable? And the debate goes on. Illinois concealed carry has not resulted in a bloodbath or a rash of negligent shootings as far as I am aware

rock185 · July 30, 2018, 01:56 AM

Slippery slope perhaps. But I've seen people in those required CCW classes who were just scary safety wise, and should not be carrying a weapon. Most passed the class. One woman, waving a hand gun around like a pointer, caused me to take cover behind a vehicle and alert the instructor. He called me a couple days later to tell me he did not pass her. I understand the concerns, but I suspect a lot of people who are not at all competent to be carrying a hand gun, may be deterred by having to attend a very minimal class. And that they, and the people with whom they interact, are safer due to their reluctance to go to the admitted hassle of even, the admittedly minimal, CCW class. Liberty is certainly messy, but so is getting shot by an incompetent who should not have a weapon.....ymmv

Fishbed77 · July 30, 2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Maybe the legislators who created and passed the laws about CC renewal were not so far off the mark.

Much like free speech, a firearm can be dangerous in the hands of an idiot.

But that is no excuse for additional layers of legislation.

K_Mac · July 30, 2018, 09:34 AM

rock185 It sounds like the woman unsafely handling her handgun was deterred by the very minimal class.

There are many who believe that no one can safely own or carry weapons. They may concede peace officers and military personnel are exceptions, but believe it is simply too dangerous for civilians to carry. Their goal is to make sure that you and I can't qualify for concealed carry and given the chance would make the requirements impossible to meet.

Quote:

Illinois concealed carry has not resulted in a bloodbath or a rash of negligent shootings as far as I am aware

No, it has not in spite of many hysterical predictions that it would.

Yes, there are some folks who should have more firearm training before carrying, and as Cheapshooter mentioned there are some who should seek a better understanding of how our system of government works and our individual responsibilities before voting. Mandating these things brings us back to that slippery slope though. Giving up liberty for the purpose of safety does not make us safer.

Laz · July 30, 2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Liberty is certainly messy, but so is getting shot by an incompetent

While it doesn’t alter my position, I certainly have to agree with you on this. :-)

rodfac · July 31, 2018, 09:27 AM

KMac & Laz have stated the opposition to arbitrary qualification standards set by partisan politicians so succinctly, that I feel they're worth reiterating and will add that the 2nd Amendment's purpose was to give the people, all of us, the means to redress a tyrannical gov't's plans to subjugate our nation, as well as personal protection. It truly is, "a slippery slope" as so many have pointed out. Apologies to the OP for possible thread drift!
Regards, Rod

Quote:

KMac: There are many who believe that no one can safely own or carry weapons. They may concede peace officers and military personnel are exceptions, but believe it is simply too dangerous for civilians to carry. Their goal is to make sure that you and I can't qualify for concealed carry and given the chance would make the requirements impossible to meet.

Quote:

Laz: The rub, as always, is who gets to “question whether she should have a gun”? Me? You? The Senate? The Sheriff? A judge? The opposition party?

Quote:

KMac: Giving up liberty for the purpose of safety does not make us safer.

HistoryJunky · August 1, 2018, 03:57 PM

What you guys are all ignoring is how much money it costs already in Illinois to get a carry permit.

Mandatory $150 to the state.

$100 and up for your class.
$10 or more for ammo JUST for the qualification

$30+ for a holster if you don't already have one.

More money for a gun if you don't already have an easily concealable gun.

Providing you already have gun and holster, minimum of $260.

Easily pricing many low income people out of the right to carry.

That's an objective of the Antis IMO.

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shuvelrider · August 1, 2018, 04:28 PM

Simply a money maker since Illinois is a broke d*ck state, the coffers are empty. So raise taxes at the gas pumps, real estate/property, stringent cost on conceal carry. Trying to raise your vehicle registration by 400%, figuring a way to charge residents for the mileage they drive. there has been an exodus of 30,000-45,000 residents per year for the past five. People are tired of the criminal mindset of Chicago politics running that state into the ground. I grew up Illinois, so glad I left in 2001.

Onward Allusion · August 1, 2018, 05:19 PM

Quote:

What you guys are all ignoring is how much money it costs already in Illinois to get a carry permit.

I think the purpose of the high entrance fee is to keep the poor from walking around with guns to defend themselves. I know, tin-foil hat...but it sure seems that way.

Laz · August 2, 2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

I think the purpose of the high entrance fee is to keep the poor from walking around with guns to defend themselves

I wouldn’t put that past them but I think the main reason is Illinois is money-hungry to keep its vast machinery of government fed. (The state is broke.) Illinois has always bought into the idea of using taxation to attempt to shape society into the mold they desire, which supports your contention.

JDBerg · August 2, 2018, 11:04 AM

I’ve previously held a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms, and I now hold a Colorado concealed handgun permit. The app fee in PA is $20 and doesn’t require a handgun safety course as s prerequisite for the permit app. In CO you need a six hour classroom / range safety course as a prerequisite, in my case the course cost me $125.00 from a public range. The app fee for CO is $152.50, which is (CO Gov.) Hickenlooper’s way of saying how bad do you want this anyway.

Two ways to look at this, IMHO, good firearms training is always worthwhile if it’s well presented. However it is wrong when the state governments ratchet up the firearm licensing fees to discourage people from applying for the carry license in the first place.

Dragon breath · August 2, 2018, 09:16 PM

I picked up my carry permit renewal today after work. Here, a permit costs $10 a year (you can renew for up to 5 years at a time) and you do the application online. No training or range time required.
Honestly, it takes me more time to renew my car tags than it does to do my carry permit.

JERRYS. · August 3, 2018, 08:59 PM

I'm just wondering what other constitutional right everyone is willing to license in order to exercise.

Dragon breath · August 4, 2018, 05:06 PM

I would prefer constitutional carry, but $10 a year is also preferable to a weapons charge.

I see that you are also in Alabama, so you are in the same boat as I am. Not as good as it should be, but better than some other states.

July 27, 2018, 02:11 PM	#1
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Illinois Concealed Carry Renewal Talking to Katie the range lady today I learned that, in Illinois, when it comes time to renew a concealed carry permit, one must take a three hour refresher course that includes range time. At first I though this was a bit much, then she told me about the recent renewal class her boss had taught. Apparently most of the class had spent very little time with their guns in the five years that had passed since they first got a CC permit. Some did not know how to load their guns. One person was putting two fingers (one left and one right) on the trigger. Hmmmm . . . . Maybe the legislators who created and passed the laws about CC renewal were not so far off the mark.

July 27, 2018, 02:29 PM	#2
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	In my opinion I would say piss poor training to start with or idiots that should not have guns __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

July 27, 2018, 06:34 PM	#3
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	Passing the Illinois Concealed Carry proficiency test does not mean that one is skilled using a handgun. It simply means one has demonstrated they know which end of the gun to point at the target, how to load/reload, and how to put 30 total rounds more or less on a B27 target at 3, 7, and10 yards without hurting anyone. This doesn't disqualify anyone that I've ever heard of and it certainly doesn't mean one is trained to effectively carry a gun. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

July 27, 2018, 08:59 PM	#4
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Just more ways for the People's Republic of Illinois to discourage the concealed carry that the politicians in Chicago never wanted to happen in the first place! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

July 28, 2018, 07:02 AM	#7
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	There are idiots out there for sure...for example, we've all seen them on the highways driving like they were immersed in a video game...and we all hope they'll show some individual responsibility and return to sanity. But where in the 2nd Amendment does it specify proficiency with any arm? Allowing politicians to mandate "improvements" in the name of "safety" or any other reason, is lunacy. YMMV, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

July 28, 2018, 12:22 AM	#5
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	If a person can not pass the live fire portion of the Illinois CCL, they should not own a gun. IMO, it's too easy. Only 21 of 30 rounds fired need to hit the black of the B27 target. That means 9 rounds could hit anything and everything except what you are supposed to hit. That's scary. The qualification target doesn't get scored by the printed points, but the shooter could score as low as a 147 out of a possible 300-30X and still pass. Again, scary. When I shot my live fire qualification I scored a 300-27X, and was disappointed in myself. The guy to my immediate left failed his first attempt. I was happy to get mine done and get out of the range before I got hurt. I think a person should have to put all 30 rounds on paper at the very minimum.

July 28, 2018, 02:21 AM	#6
HistoryJunky Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Location: Freeport, IL Posts: 833	I took qualification with my M&P 40 that I had never shot until then and still got 30/30. I had a fair bit of previous handgun experience. My instructor was very good and taught us much more than the minimum requirement . Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

July 29, 2018, 10:21 AM	#9
unit 900 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 130	I attended a LEOSA qual session and one police retiree loaded the rounds backwards in his Glock mags. Qualification is a liabilty hedge, no more than that. __________________ "A promise made is a debt unpaid"

July 29, 2018, 01:56 PM	#10
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	I completely agree that governmental involvement in regulating the keeping and bearing of firearms is a slippery slope. I also believe that carrying a gun is an enterprise that brings with it serious responsibility. Fools and idiots have the same rights as the rest of us, until they don't. Preserving liberty while protecting individuals and society at large is the responsibility of we the people and our government. No thinking person has ever said that is easy. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin Last edited by K_Mac; July 29, 2018 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Incomplete thought

July 30, 2018, 01:56 AM	#13
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Slippery slope perhaps. But I've seen people in those required CCW classes who were just scary safety wise, and should not be carrying a weapon. Most passed the class. One woman, waving a hand gun around like a pointer, caused me to take cover behind a vehicle and alert the instructor. He called me a couple days later to tell me he did not pass her. I understand the concerns, but I suspect a lot of people who are not at all competent to be carrying a hand gun, may be deterred by having to attend a very minimal class. And that they, and the people with whom they interact, are safer due to their reluctance to go to the admitted hassle of even, the admittedly minimal, CCW class. Liberty is certainly messy, but so is getting shot by an incompetent who should not have a weapon.....ymmv __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

August 1, 2018, 03:57 PM	#18
HistoryJunky Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Location: Freeport, IL Posts: 833	What you guys are all ignoring is how much money it costs already in Illinois to get a carry permit. Mandatory $150 to the state. $100 and up for your class. $10 or more for ammo JUST for the qualification $30+ for a holster if you don't already have one. More money for a gun if you don't already have an easily concealable gun. Providing you already have gun and holster, minimum of $260. Easily pricing many low income people out of the right to carry. That's an objective of the Antis IMO. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

August 1, 2018, 04:28 PM	#19
shuvelrider Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Location: West Coast of Michigan Posts: 132	Simply a money maker since Illinois is a broke dck state, the coffers are empty. So raise taxes at the gas pumps, real estate/property, stringent cost on conceal carry. Trying to raise your vehicle registration by 400%, figuring a way to charge residents for the mileage they drive. there has been an exodus of 30,000-45,000 residents per year for the past five. People are tired of the criminal mindset of Chicago politics running that state into the ground. I grew up Illinois, so glad I left in 2001. Last edited by shuvelrider; August 1, 2018 at 06:43 PM.*

August 2, 2018, 11:04 AM	#22
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	I’ve previously held a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms, and I now hold a Colorado concealed handgun permit. The app fee in PA is $20 and doesn’t require a handgun safety course as s prerequisite for the permit app. In CO you need a six hour classroom / range safety course as a prerequisite, in my case the course cost me $125.00 from a public range. The app fee for CO is $152.50, which is (CO Gov.) Hickenlooper’s way of saying how bad do you want this anyway. Two ways to look at this, IMHO, good firearms training is always worthwhile if it’s well presented. However it is wrong when the state governments ratchet up the firearm licensing fees to discourage people from applying for the carry license in the first place. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live Last edited by JDBerg; August 2, 2018 at 12:09 PM.

August 2, 2018, 09:16 PM	#23
Dragon breath Member Join Date: August 25, 2017 Posts: 27	I picked up my carry permit renewal today after work. Here, a permit costs $10 a year (you can renew for up to 5 years at a time) and you do the application online. No training or range time required. Honestly, it takes me more time to renew my car tags than it does to do my carry permit.

August 3, 2018, 08:59 PM	#24
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	I'm just wondering what other constitutional right everyone is willing to license in order to exercise.

August 4, 2018, 05:06 PM	#25
Dragon breath Member Join Date: August 25, 2017 Posts: 27	I would prefer constitutional carry, but $10 a year is also preferable to a weapons charge. I see that you are also in Alabama, so you are in the same boat as I am. Not as good as it should be, but better than some other states.