Winchester model 12 and Ithaca model 37

[4570Tom]

Hello, I have Remington 870's of different vintages and gauges, as well as a Winchester 1300 from the late 1980's. Older shotguns appeal to me and I have eyeballed and shouldered both some Winchester Model 12s and Ithaca Model 37s. Both felt good. I was wondering if any forum members had experience with both models and could offer comments or experiences with them. My use would be casual clay pigeons and upland hunting. Thanks.

[Eazyeach]

You literally can not go wrong with either. Some older model 12s have a shorter chamber and can't shoot 2 3/4 shells. My 16ga is like that. It has a 2 9/16 chamber. So if you go the model 12 route make sure it has the modern 2 3/4 chamber. I prefer the Winchester but I'd like to have a nice Ithaca too.

[JWT]

They are both great guns. Can't go wrong with either, so the only thing to do is get one of each. Both true classics.

[mehavey]

Some older model 12s have a shorter chamber and can't shoot 2 3/4 shells. My 16ga is like that. It has a 2 9/16

My grandfather's/Father's/My/Now my Son's 1928 Model-12 was a 2-9/16".
It was shot for 95 years -- near 150,000 rounds (including lotsa skeet)...
before we found out it couldn't be done.




** A lot of web sites will state that that M-12 was never chambered less than 2-3/4.
Wright Gunsmiths doesn't think so and I bow to the Professionals.

.

[44 AMP]

A used, field grade 30" full choke 12ga Model 12 was my 16th birthday present. Bought at an auction, with another guy bidding against us. He dropped out at $125, and my Dad breathed a sigh of relief. Gave me the money, and I went and paid for it, and was carrying it back to our seats when I passes the guy who had been bidding against us.

He asked me what the gun was. I read from the barrel, "Winchester Model of 1912".

"I'll give you $200 for it!"

"No, thank you, sir!"

That was nearly a half century ago, now, and I've still got the gun and it still works wonderfully well. There's prettier pump guns, and more modern slicker working pump guns, but to me, there is no FINER pump gun made, ever.

I've used the Ithaca 37, have one I inherited in the closet. Fine gun for a port side shooter. I'm not.

[jaguarxk120]

Both the Model 12 and the Model 37 are made from machined parts.

You will notice that they use only one action bar, a second bar is not needed with those guns using machined parts and frames.

The Model 12 came in many different flavors, from upland guns to the heavy trap and duck guns. The Model 37 is known as the Featherlight always a bit lighter than the Model 12. But it was meant for upland game.

The Model 37 in 20 gauge is a couple ounces shy of 6 pounds.

Both guns handle very well, fast and sure when coming on to game or clay targets.

Please note when Winchester made the last Model 12's they lost money on every one sold.
The Ithaca Model 37 is still in production today, they cost a bit more but are still made from machined parts.

[kozak6]

The Ithaca is super cool. If you like your 870's, you'll love the Ithaca.

It's lighter, smoother, classier, and feels faster than the 870. It has a similar crossbolt safety, and the slide release is in the same position on the front of the trigger guard. Except, it's correctly placed for a right handed shooter. If you're a righty, you can actually reach it with your trigger finger.

It also loads with the carrier up, so no pinched fingers or pinched gloves.

Older models will slamfire, meaning that if you hold the trigger while you pump it, it will fire as soon as it locks into battery. It's super fun for rattling shells off real quick, but demands excellent trigger discipline.

Bottom ejection is neat. You don't bean your buddies with ejected casings, and rounding up empties is as easy as dropping a shoebox at your feet.

I'm impressed with it. Disassembly is a pain, but other than that it's pretty great. A riot version is on my short list.

[FITASC]

My grandfather's/Father's/My/Now my Son's 1928 Model-12 was a 2-9/16".
It was shot for 95 years -- near 150,000 rounds (including lotsa skeet)...
before we found out it couldn't be done.

That's like saying "I drove 150,000 miles drinking beer and never had an issue" -OK, you got lucky. Not everyone will be so.

As a LH shooter, the 37 is a great field gun - it works well for us LH folks, it helps keep rain and debris out of the action, and the 20 was awesome at about 6#.

[eastbank]

i sure think 800-900 is more than just a bit more for a 37 ithaca. eastbank.

[mehavey]

That's like saying "I drove 150,000 miles drinking beer and never had an issue" -OK, you got lucky. Not everyone will be so.

Personally, I find a near 100-year/4-Generation Model-12 test to be pretty good evidence.
Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Folks will be just fine.



On the issue of the 37 vs 12, I've got both.
The last 37 I picked up t the Nation's/Chantilly Gunshow was all of a $150.
Light, maneuverable, and bombproof

[Brit]

I have an 870, used to be a 14" factory barreled model when it lived in Canada with me! But grew into an 18" one, when it drove across the border, 14" stayed in Canada. No idea how old, but works really well.

I shot a short barreled Ithaca 37 in NYPD City Island Range. Slick as oil on a counter top. The fact that you could hold that 37 upside down in your right hand, and top up, with no need to look at it, with your left, fantastic.

Tried two of the new ones? Crap, sent them both back. That old system of holding the trigger back, and pump? 3 rounds in about a second?

When would you need to do that? Who knows. Knowing you could do it, great!

[Ricklin]

I don't know the 37 at all, but hear good things.

The model 12 is simply, The perfect repeater. Winchester made over 2 million of em. I will make up my HD gun when I see the right Model 12.

The right one will be a 12 gauge 30" barrel, full choke. There are a ton of these out there, and can be had for 250 or thereabouts. I have no qualms about cutting a gun like this, simply because there are so many of them. I would never cut a "collectible" specimen.

One day soon....

[Eazyeach]

The only model 12 I've seen for $250 looked liked it was dragged behind a truck.

[FITASC]

Exactly, even at flea markets, they're pushing 5-600

[kozak6]

Depends. There are deals out there, but you need to do a lot of looking.

I saw one at a pawn shop for $250 last year. My budget was a little tight, so I passed it up. I think they used an outdated blue book to set prices until a younger employee pointed them at google.

16 gauge models tend to be relatively cheap since it's the bastard gauge. I've seen them for $300-400 more than a few times.

[dgludwig]

Add the Remington Model 31 to the mix when it comes to having machined parts, smooth operation and extreme reliability and you'll have the three best pump shotguns ever made in the world, imo. I might even include the long discontinued Marlin Model 120 and the current Browning BPS pump guns to a "best five A-list".

[jrothWA]

For upland go for the M37 dream to carry, with M12 right behind.

gauge a 16, of course. you'll understand after a days hunt.


The current Upper Sandusky M37 have no experience with, but plenty with the Ithaca, Newyorkers. If you get a post 855,000 SN, you'll be able to swap with the Kings Ferrys barrels, with their choke tubes.

If you get a pre-855,000 receiver, check the SN stamped on the barrel @ 5 O'clock position MUST MATCH the SN on the right front face of the receiver edge. If not the have a smith check the headspace, before using.

[Bushmaster1313]

Ginger or Maryann

[jaguarxk120]

That serial number thing will go on for many years to come.
Any good gunsmith can fit another barrel to a pre 855000 receiver as long as it is a pre 85500 barrel.
Diamond gunsmithing is the go to place for Ithaca's and he will fit those barrels for you.

The new barrels have straight threads and barrels interchange. The older barrels thread into the receiver like a screw and replacements have to be "clocked" into place.

[4V50 Gary]

Didn't know that Jaguar. I know that to replace the barrel on a Win 12, it had to be timed and you could buy a set of those rings to get the closest match possible.

I like both the Win 12 and the Ithaca 37. If I was worried about a dirty environment (trench warfare), I'd go with a 37. Mind you, the 12 and its predecessor, the 97 both served well in WW I trench warfare.

[stuckinthe60s]

37's kick.
12's are heavier. less kick.