Useful life of S&W 40 Brass

Stats Shooter · September 30, 2016, 11:31 PM

First of all, I already know that there are many variables that affect case life like quality of the brass, load pressure, chamber tolerance, etc..
With average quality brass, say federal or remmington, and 180 grain bullets pushed 1100 fps out of a S&W MP 40, what is the average case life of average quality brass?

Woolecox · October 1, 2016, 07:04 AM

As you can see in the above photo, these 40 S&W cases appear to have a belt around the bottom. That is because they were bulged so badly by an “unsupported chamber” that they would not even go through an RX die.

I will not reload 40 S&W unless they go through the RX die first. The cases in the photo actually had to be tapped out of the die with a punch.

As long as they go through the RX, I have never had a problem with them. A small base die will not remove the dreaded "Glock Bulge". I have cases with 4 or 5 firings on them with no sign of failure. I would imagine that different brands of cases have varying life.

A couple of years ago, I had a guy (retired lawman) give me two huge bags of 40 S&W cases. I estimate there were between 2000 and 3000 cases. All Speer, Federal, and Winchester. I just last week tumbled about 1000 of them and ran them through my RX die. Only about 5 would not go through. I would not want any one of those in one of my P229 magazines.

I shoot 165 Gold Dots out of my 40. A full power 180 is definitely a hand full. Inspect your cases closely.

rodfac · October 1, 2016, 10:03 PM

My experience is that .40 brass is very tough; I lose 'em before I crack 'em. My .40's include a Sig P226, a Colt Gold Cup Elite in .40 S&W, a Browning Hi-Power in .40, and a Gen 4 Glock 23. All shoot the same loads from mild to about factory spec. And IIRC, I've never cracked a case mouth, nor found a loosened primer pocket.

I've used: Starline, PMC, American Eagle, Federal, R-P, Winchester and a cpl others that I've forgotten. Most of it came from LEO friends and so was once-fired when I got it. No brand stands out in quality nor accuracy in my experience so far. Aside from the LEO sourced stuff, I don't use random range pick-up brass, (I don't trust how many times it's been loaded, nor under what conditions and pressure levels.)

BTW, 1100 fps with a 180 gr jacketed bullet strikes me as a very hot load. Lyman's #49 loading manual lists True blue as giving a 180 gr JHP at 1049 fps for a 4" bbl. (it's fastest load). And Speers current manual gives one 1027 fps using HS-7, again from a 4" bbl. (pushed to the max load limit). My advice is to check your manuals and proceed with caution as you're at the high end of the pressure curve with a round that already operates at high pressures.

YMMV, Rod

bedlamite · October 1, 2016, 10:34 PM

rodfac- Hodgdon Longshot will push a 180gr to 1150 fps: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Nick_C_S · October 1, 2016, 10:51 PM

Quote:

BTW, 1100 fps with a 180 gr jacketed bullet strikes me as a very hot load.

That's because it is.

There's lots of variables of course (such as Hodgdon's data with Longshot - which I believe to be completely unrealistic; but whatever); but I generally consider max velocity for a 180gn through a 40 S&W to be about 1050 f/s.

I have a couple 10mm's and pushing a 180 to 1200 f/s is - well, just that: pushing it. At least, pushing it as far as I care to. Compared to some loaders, I don't hot rod rounds, I suppose. Been there. Done that.

Stats Shooter · October 1, 2016, 11:07 PM

Thanks for all the input so far. I worked the load up in 1/10 of a grain increments. I know it is a hot load, the ACTUAL velocity is 1089....i rounded up 11 fps just for conversation. The barrel is actually 4.25 inches as well. The load is 7.6 grains of longshot using Berry's bullets 180 grain flat nose. At 7.8 grains I had primers crater so I backed off to 7.6...the groups kept getting tighter the faster i pushed them. In the end the load was shooting out the bullseye off sandbags at 25 yards so I was happy. .....btw I used CCI small pistol primers.....CCI 500 I think

Woolecox · October 2, 2016, 08:55 AM

Quote:

rodfac- Hodgdon Longshot will push a 180gr to 1150 fps: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

That is the very load I used in my “truck gun”, a Glock 22 with a after market Hackathorn trigger, Barstow gunsmith fit barrel, and True Glow tritium fiber optic sights. 180 grain Speer Gold Dots.

Even with a 22 round magazine and a weapon light mounted to the gun, this load will sting your hand. “Whoa!” is the first word out of everyones mouth that has ever shot it.

In fact, I believe last time I checked my ballistic program, this load delivers more muzzle energy than any published load for the 45 ACP. It also made me realize that I did not need a 10mm for personal/home defense (although I would like to have one anyway).

It also got me to thinking about; what if I get into my 185 degree truck that has been sitting in the Texas sun all day and have to fire this cannon? I don’t want to be the ginny pig so I backed these loads off .5 grains.

I like Longshot for 9mm, 40S&W, and 45 ACP. It meters accurately through my Dillon. It leaks a little bit but all do to an extent through that powder measure. I also use Blue Dot, AA#5, AA#7 for all three. Bullseye is a great choice for 45 ACP target and competition load.

g.willikers · October 2, 2016, 09:45 AM

Woolecox,
Any chance the brass in your pictures are suffering from a too long overall cartridge length and not fully chambered?
Aren't the bulges caused by an unsupported barrel less uniform looking and kind of bulgy?
More like this maybe:
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_pi...ec4e89b578f1a4

Woolecox · October 2, 2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Woolecox,
Any chance the brass in your pictures are suffering from a too long overall cartridge length and not fully chambered?
Aren't the bulges caused by an unsupported barrel less uniform looking and kind of bulgy?

No, I don't think so. Those cases are the result of trying to push them trough a Redding Rx die. The case goes in the bottom and comes out the top. Case length would have nothing to do with it since nothing is restricting the length.

They would not go all the way through and had to be tapped out the bottom with a punch.

Those were Winchester factory, once fired cases. A guy next to me at the range one day was shooting them through and old Glock and allowed me to collect them.

On some badly bulged cases, you can see the asymmetrical bulge with your eye if you inspect them very closely next to a normal case. None of the above cases were bulges as badly as the ones you posted. Anything like that should go directly in the trash in my opinion.

I am finding far less bulged cases at the range these days. I guess there are not as many of the old Glocks around these days.

Stats Shooter · October 2, 2016, 10:34 AM

Woolecox, I was warned about what you showed when I first started re-loading 40 s&w. My brass I got about 5 yrs ago was all fired by me out of my S&w M&P's ( I have 3), and out of my friends Springfield.....i think I had around 2000 cases. So the brass was never "glocked" . All I do full length size with small base and if the case is bulged or damaged in any way I discard it.

Woolecox · October 2, 2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Woolecox, I was warned about what you showed when I first started re-loading 40 s&w. My brass I got about 5 yrs ago was all fired by me out of my S&w M&P's ( I have 3), and out of my friends Springfield.....i think I had around 2000 cases. So the brass was never "glocked" . All I do full length size with small base and if the case is bulged or damaged in any way I discard it.

A very good practice I believe. I can't always see those minor bulges with my eye so, I just run them through the Rx. If they don't go through fairly easily, I throw them away. Also, if you know you are only picking up your own cases fired from fully supported chambers, you should have no problem. I however, tend to be a brass whore at the range. :-)

zplinker · October 5, 2016, 09:05 AM

I ran into the 'belted' cases right away too, when sizing range .40 brass, so now they all go through a Sizemaster Jr., which runs them base first through a carbide die. Back to factory specs at the base. No idea how many firings some of these might have, but I am seeing a split case once in a while, after over 12 yrs of loadings. These are target loads of 170 gr. @900fps.
My favorite 'top end' load is a 155 gr. Speer Gold Dot, over Longshot; it runs at 1275 fps, which generates over 550 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, and that bullet always performs perfectly. To load these, I use only new or once fired brass, same headstamp, and work up to my goal. At one time Hodgdon listed the top load for that combo at 1329 fps.

September 30, 2016, 11:31 PM	#1
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Useful life of S&W 40 Brass First of all, I already know that there are many variables that affect case life like quality of the brass, load pressure, chamber tolerance, etc.. With average quality brass, say federal or remmington, and 180 grain bullets pushed 1100 fps out of a S&W MP 40, what is the average case life of average quality brass?

October 1, 2016, 07:04 AM	#2
Woolecox Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 152	Tough to Reload Sometimes As you can see in the above photo, these 40 S&W cases appear to have a belt around the bottom. That is because they were bulged so badly by an “unsupported chamber” that they would not even go through an RX die. I will not reload 40 S&W unless they go through the RX die first. The cases in the photo actually had to be tapped out of the die with a punch. As long as they go through the RX, I have never had a problem with them. A small base die will not remove the dreaded "Glock Bulge". I have cases with 4 or 5 firings on them with no sign of failure. I would imagine that different brands of cases have varying life. A couple of years ago, I had a guy (retired lawman) give me two huge bags of 40 S&W cases. I estimate there were between 2000 and 3000 cases. All Speer, Federal, and Winchester. I just last week tumbled about 1000 of them and ran them through my RX die. Only about 5 would not go through. I would not want any one of those in one of my P229 magazines. I shoot 165 Gold Dots out of my 40. A full power 180 is definitely a hand full. Inspect your cases closely. Last edited by Woolecox; October 1, 2016 at 07:15 AM.

October 1, 2016, 10:03 PM	#3
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	My experience is that .40 brass is very tough; I lose 'em before I crack 'em. My .40's include a Sig P226, a Colt Gold Cup Elite in .40 S&W, a Browning Hi-Power in .40, and a Gen 4 Glock 23. All shoot the same loads from mild to about factory spec. And IIRC, I've never cracked a case mouth, nor found a loosened primer pocket. I've used: Starline, PMC, American Eagle, Federal, R-P, Winchester and a cpl others that I've forgotten. Most of it came from LEO friends and so was once-fired when I got it. No brand stands out in quality nor accuracy in my experience so far. Aside from the LEO sourced stuff, I don't use random range pick-up brass, (I don't trust how many times it's been loaded, nor under what conditions and pressure levels.) BTW, 1100 fps with a 180 gr jacketed bullet strikes me as a very hot load. Lyman's #49 loading manual lists True blue as giving a 180 gr JHP at 1049 fps for a 4" bbl. (it's fastest load). And Speers current manual gives one 1027 fps using HS-7, again from a 4" bbl. (pushed to the max load limit). My advice is to check your manuals and proceed with caution as you're at the high end of the pressure curve with a round that already operates at high pressures. YMMV, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; October 1, 2016 at 10:16 PM.

October 2, 2016, 09:45 AM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Woolecox, Any chance the brass in your pictures are suffering from a too long overall cartridge length and not fully chambered? Aren't the bulges caused by an unsupported barrel less uniform looking and kind of bulgy? More like this maybe: https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_pi...ec4e89b578f1a4 __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; October 2, 2016 at 09:57 AM.

October 1, 2016, 10:34 PM	#4
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	rodfac- Hodgdon Longshot will push a 180gr to 1150 fps: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

October 1, 2016, 11:07 PM	#6
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Thanks for all the input so far. I worked the load up in 1/10 of a grain increments. I know it is a hot load, the ACTUAL velocity is 1089....i rounded up 11 fps just for conversation. The barrel is actually 4.25 inches as well. The load is 7.6 grains of longshot using Berry's bullets 180 grain flat nose. At 7.8 grains I had primers crater so I backed off to 7.6...the groups kept getting tighter the faster i pushed them. In the end the load was shooting out the bullseye off sandbags at 25 yards so I was happy. .....btw I used CCI small pistol primers.....CCI 500 I think

October 2, 2016, 10:34 AM	#10
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Woolecox, I was warned about what you showed when I first started re-loading 40 s&w. My brass I got about 5 yrs ago was all fired by me out of my S&w M&P's ( I have 3), and out of my friends Springfield.....i think I had around 2000 cases. So the brass was never "glocked" . All I do full length size with small base and if the case is bulged or damaged in any way I discard it.

October 5, 2016, 09:05 AM	#12
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	I ran into the 'belted' cases right away too, when sizing range .40 brass, so now they all go through a Sizemaster Jr., which runs them base first through a carbide die. Back to factory specs at the base. No idea how many firings some of these might have, but I am seeing a split case once in a while, after over 12 yrs of loadings. These are target loads of 170 gr. @900fps. My favorite 'top end' load is a 155 gr. Speer Gold Dot, over Longshot; it runs at 1275 fps, which generates over 550 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, and that bullet always performs perfectly. To load these, I use only new or once fired brass, same headstamp, and work up to my goal. At one time Hodgdon listed the top load for that combo at 1329 fps.