Shooting deer in the shoulder. Need some info and experience.

[Brian Pfleuger]

This is a better image for the purposes of this discussion. It illustrates well why I don't like shoulder shots, besides the biggest reason which is wasted meat.

As you can see, aiming just slightly less than half way up the animals body, in line with the back edge of the front leg, puts you dead center in the lungs. This shot gives you a solid 4 inches minimum error in every direction to still make a clean kill. Lungs are everywhere surrounding the aim point. High, low, back, and forward.

You would have to screw this shot up BADLY to miss the lungs. Given that same zone of potential error on a shoulder shot, you've got clean miss or, worse, wounded animal in at least a couple possible hit areas.

Two years ago I screwed up on a shot with my bow and ended up crawling for literally hours through brush that rabbits shouldn't fit through, but I found the deer. The blood trail was horrid, many times we went a half hour or more without finding anything. We were literally crawling, hands and knees at best, many times. We were scratched up, sore and tired, but we found the deer. That sort of thing just doesn't happen with lung shots. It doesn't matter how thick the brush is. The animal can only get 150 yards at most, on an uninterrupted, full-out, dead run. Having to slow down for brush will have it dead in a much shorter distance. If it's not, it's not because lungs shots aren't effective, it's because a lung shot wasn't made.

Lung shots are a guaranteed quick kill, easily identifiable as to aim point and the largest kill zone, by far, on the entire animal. It simply makes no sense to me to shoot anywhere else.

[Gunplummer]

You don't hunt the coal regions. A deer 3 feet from the edge of a drop that is about 15 degrees and 3-4 hundred yards down into a bowel gets a shoulder shot from me.

[Jack O'Conner]

Neck shot is always deadly but animal must NOT be moving when trigger is touched off.

Jack

[tynimiller]

Neck shots are a completely different topic altogether...this is about shoulder shots.

[skydiver3346]

Congrats on moving up to the .270 (the core-lokts are great hunting bullets).
In my opinion, shot placement is priority number one when hunting, no matter what caliber you hunt with. The .270 will definitely give you more confidence than your prior .243 experience. Although I have taken many deer with the accurate .243 round in the past.
Bottom line: In my experience, the shoulder shot will drop most deer size animals on the spot, (especially with your .270) or they usually won't go very far when shot directly in the shoulder. However, you obviously will have more meat damage than a lung shot, etc. If I were you and concerned about losing more deer in those thick jungle woods, etc. I would definitely take a shoulder shot and help eliminate the possibility of a lost deer. Good luck

[Saltydog235]

3rd high shoulder shot of the season was Saturday evening at 7:03:32. Deer was dead and piled up at 7:03:33 and not a single flinch once again. Meat's stocked, time to chase the big ones.

[black mamba]

I'm a big proponent of the high shoulder shot. Since talking at length with a gunsmith friend of mine who hunted in Angola years ago, I've never attempted another type of shot. He killed 17 animals with 19 shots, using 200 gr Partitions in a 30-06. Every deer but one that I have attempted this shot on has died instantly without taking a step. The one that did not die instantly took two jumps and died 25 yds away within 3 seconds, because I hit a little low and too far back, barely hitting the shoulder, but missing the neck or spine.

The neck and spine shots are dramatic killers, but the targets are small, the margin of error too great. Aiming for the top half of the shoulder gives you a target nearly as large as the lung shot, but is a much more rapid killer. Using a bullet of sufficient penetration shatters the shoulder, sending shards of bone through lungs and concussing the spine. Animals usually end up with all four legs drawn up to the torso in a fetal position, DRT.

The OP is not asking about how to make a clean kill, he is an accomplished hunter. He wanted to know how to anchor deer on the spot. The high shoulder shot accomplishes this. If the animal is facing you, or quartering toward you, aim for a spot a couple inches up from where the neck meets the chest, and you will get the same result, DRT.

I have seen films of deer hit behing the shoulder, even with blood gushing out both sides of the animal (complete pass through of both lungs with exit) and the deer still run 150-200 yds before dropping. Large bucks, especially in the rut, seem to react like some doped up humans, and can take a ton of punishment before going down if the spine is not traumatized.

As a sport hunter, I feel it is completely ethical to take shots that will damage some meat, especially if it is one that kills instantly and results in zero suffering of the animal. Most of the meat is still utilized anyway.

I have used a variety of 130 gr bullets in the .270 WCF and 165 grainers in the 30-06, and none of them have failed to shatter the shoulder and/or sever the spine when hit, even if they fragmented.

[FrankenMauser]

To stick to the OP:
I am not a fan of Federal Fusion .243 ammo. It's crap for big game.

As for the .270... The 130 grain Core-Lokt is an impressive bullet. It will do the job just fine. Going up to the 150 gr version is just a waste of money and an entry into the land of rainbow trajectories.


I'm one of the 'despised' proponents of head shots and neck shots... but ONLY if the hunter is capable of judging the proper time and place for such shots, and has the skill pull it off. If you can't do it, stick with the standard kill zone. Lungs are good. Heart and lungs is better.

[black mamba]

FrankenMauser, I hope you don't think I am one who despises you for taking neck and spine shots. I just feel they require greater accuracy and experience than most hunters have. I understand it to be the prefered shot for subsistence hunters who get very close and make very sure of their shot.

[ZeroJunk]

I have never found what little meat there is in a deer's shoulder to be a big deal. If you want to break it down, go for it.

As far as deer shot through both lungs always going 100 yards or less I would say that is generally true, but certainly not always.

I shot a medium size doe square through both lungs with a 300 Wby Mag using 150 grain factory loads a few years ago. The doe ran at least 300 yards. I watched her. Stood there scratching my head. I didn't see the doe fall. So, I followed where she ran down the middle of a farm road and found two or three drops of blood 200 yards or so out. Finally found her. The bullet did not expand, the fat filled the holes some, and it took that long for the blood to saturate the hair enough to start to drip.

I shot sveral other deer with cartridges out of the same box and it body slammed them like they had been run over by a truck with the bullet hitting within and inch or two of the same spot.

I don't know of any shot placement other than brain or spine that is always going to result in an instant kill. I have seen bucks shot through the heart with a 7 Rem Mag run 100 yards. And, I have seen deer shot through the lungs not leave any blood for 50 or 60 yards, until the lungs fill up to the hole, and then they start bleeding profusely.

It is not an exact science. If you think it is, shoot a few more.

[hawk727]

Most deer I have shot through the years were within 50 yds.
200 gr. - 35 Rem. - neck shot
This combo is deadly. No tracking skills needed.

[tynimiller]

Shoulder shots are fine and dandy if you have a gun capable of producing what some of you have stated...however bow hunters, ML hunters and I'd even say Shotgun hunters outside of like 50 yards wouldn't be able to produce the same shoulder smashing, bone splittering spine splitting action? Correct?

Know your weapon and know what your fine with meat wise. If you can make the shoulder hit consistantly to put the deer down and not wound sure take it I guess, especially if your caliber makes this easily doable.

[Saltydog235]

Saboted slugs make 2" accuracy at 100yds possible, muzzleloaders have scopes and fiber optic sights and shoot as consistant as any shotgun. The arguement that shoulder shots should not be attempted or are not feasable is a moot point and holds no water unless the marksman is not capable of the shot.

Bowhunting is a quite different story all together. Nothing wrong with it but its not for me.

[tynimiller]

Salty I wasn't meaning accuracy isn't there as I know my ML can shoot inside a dixie cup at 100 yards everytime. I just wouldn't think ballistically it would have the impact like the rifle rounds in the .270 and other calibers. More asking then stating, sorry came across that way I realize.

Close shots with 12 gauge I realize could probably blow up a shoulder in a heartbeat, but at 100yards or more?

Salty, also you should give bowhunting a try...it's ridiculously amazing in comparison to gun hunting and I love gun hunting....just not as much for sure.

[Brian Pfleuger]

A ML or 12ga have GOBS of energy. Even at ranges far beyond their accuracy potential they have more than enough energy to fully penetrate a deer.

[Saltydog235]

10-4. Inside normal ranges of say 100yds a high shoulder should be fine for a ML or Slug. I'll shoot the occasional doe in the head but 90% of the time, that one spot will anchor them immediately. Anyone arguing against it or for a lung shot hasn't killed many deer or is full of it if they are using a rifle.

I use to bowhunt religiously, had a Browning Midas and a PSE Carrol Marauder long years ago, Easton 2213 and Thunderhead 125's. Took a couple with a bow but had a bad experience with a lost one and having to cut the throat of a mewling/bleating doe that just didn't want to die. I cannot personally take any pleasure in that sort of kill. I'll stick to the gun and my shoulder blades.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I'm arguing that it's unnecessary and waste of meat... I've killed several dozen deer myself, 12ga, bow and rifle rounds, and been witness to dozens of others. As far as I'm concerned, shoulder shots waste meat for no real world advantage. A dead deer 100 yards away is as good as a dead deer where he stood at the shot. If not, bow hunting would be a major problem. Shoulder shots will NOT work reliably with an arrow.

But, no one is changing anybodies mind. It is what it is. YMMV.

[Jack O'Conner]

Either of these two shots gets the job done for me. But bottom photo is my 1st pick.

Good hunting to you.

Jack

[Saltydog235]

Jack,

I prefer the first one, a coupel of inches back and a couple more up. Its been money every time with zero tracking. Not opposed to the neck though, depends on what I'm hunting with.

[ripnbst]

"A ML or 12ga have GOBS of energy. Even at ranges far beyond their accuracy potential they have more than enough energy to fully penetrate a deer"

I don't think anyone is doubting this, the issue becomes hitting them, not what happens if you do.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by ripnbst

"A ML or 12ga have GOBS of energy. Even at ranges far beyond their accuracy potential they have more than enough energy to fully penetrate a deer"

I don't think anyone is doubting this, the issue becomes hitting them, not what happens if you do.

No, actually Saltydog was directly asking if they had the energy, not the accuracy, at those ranges.

[Saltydog235]

Wrong, I was answering or so I thought a question of being able to surgically hit that area of a target with a slug or ML with modern projectiles from these weapons. The high shoulder isn't as big of a target as the lungs or heart area but it works great and is my personal choice of places to aim for immediate kills.

In no way would I advocate the use of a stick and string against a boney section of the animal like that. Those are meant for lighter areas like the lung and chest cavity, though I did see one shot in the head with a bow once. The broadhead penetrated enough to hit the brain but that would be a very low percentage shot or very unwise IMO.

Its a comfort level thing that depends on a lot of factors. Accuracy of the rifle, steadiness of the shooter, big enough bullet and caliber to penetrate and destroy that boney mass. Of the three I've killed this season alone, very little meat has been destroyed by these hits.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah, sorry, tnymiller was questioning the energy, not saltydog.

[tahunua001]

I personally use federal 100gr powershoks for my 243, after switching to that I've never had a deer get back up...just about any softpoint round for a 270 will drop a deer.you just have to do your part... I know what you mean about deer getting up and running despite mortal wounds...I had 3 deer lose themselves after getting hit with 80gr remington corelokts

[hogdogs]

The only person I know who purposely takes shoulder shots is a buddy in a wheelchair... He just cannot always go where wounded runners head to...

He prefers a .308 as his "go-to" deer rifle. He don't buy any special high dollar loads that he ever mentioned to me.

Brent