.45ACP Tracer Ammunition

Eddiejoe · February 15, 2021, 12:25 AM

I came across some ammo while getting ready to move.
It's a cardboard box of 20 .45ACP tracer round. It looks like they are Vietnam-era based on the green stripe flanked by yellow-orange on both sides. The bullet is rusty brown, and the case is brass.
Is this ammo safe in a modern firearm?
Is it collectible?
20210214_204529.jpg

rc · February 15, 2021, 12:49 AM

Well the head stamp says it all. Frankford Arsenal 41. So yes collectable WWII issue tracer ammo. Sometimes issued and used for signaling if you needed help on the ocean. Do not fire in dry grass. Illegal to own in states like California.

ballardw · February 15, 2021, 02:14 AM

Should be safe.

The tracer compounds may not "trace" much with age.

And may be worth more on the collector market than you realize.

BillM · February 15, 2021, 11:50 AM

They were used for pistol training during WW2. Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7J-JNSUu4

Eddiejoe · February 15, 2021, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the video and information!
I never would have thought WWII.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 15, 2021, 12:18 PM

The U.S. military got .45 ACP ammunition packed in either 50-round boxes or 20-round boxes.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/M1911-WW2-NE...YAAOSwy2pbsqaY

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/FRANKFORD-AR...S/193625951986

I have a friend who is a more recent veteran than I am. He was in armor, and he was in the Army during the transition from one tank model to a newer one. (I'm not up on tanks, so don't ask me which ones.) On the older ones, the crews carried M1911A1s, and the tank itself also carried two M3A1 "grease guns." When they transitioned to the newer tank, the sidearm was the M9 Beretta, and the M3A1 was replaced by the M4.

I mention this because the "grease gun" used 30-round stick magazines. My armor friend said the 20-round boxes were the way they received their ammunition, not in the more usual 50-round boxes. And I can imagine that tracer would be more useful in a submachine gun than in a pistol.

**44 AMP** · February 15, 2021, 02:07 PM

In the later 70s, I was there, and the tank was the M60, the side arm was the M1911A1 and the "crew weapons" were M3/M3A1 smg. There was also supposed to be a "dismounted" kit (tripod, etc) for the coax mg and the M85 .50 in the cupola. Never saw any of those on tanks in the field though possibly they were stowed away "deep"...

The tank replacing the M60 was the M1 Abrams, which began reaching stateside units in small numbers in 78, and didn't get to Europe until a couple years later.

Replacing the M3A1 with the M4 carbine would not have made me happy if I were a tanker. Shortened as much as possible, the M4 is still longer and more awkward in cramped places than the M3. Plus going to a 9mm pistol and 5.56mm rifle removes the small ammo commonality tanker had.

And, were I a dismounted tanker with an infantry rifle, odds are high someone would make me infantry, rather than get my butt back in a tank at the earliest opportunity. No, that wouldn't make me happy, at all.

If there is no sign of damage or deterioration, WWII .45acp ammo should be fine to shoot in modern guns, though as mentioned, its now become collectable, so shooting it for fun is kind of wasting money.

.45ACP tracers were used for training, possibly for signaling but we have flares for that kind of thing, so I don't think that was common.

One thing about tracers, they work BOTH WAYS!!! And always remember, that if the enemy is in range, so are YOU!

One of the "tricks" we got taught, (but never had to use, thankfully) was to load a tracer as the next to last round in the magazine. The idea being when you shot the tracer, you knew it was time to change magazines, while still having a round chambered while you did it. Don't know if anyone ever really did that, we never did, for one thing they never gave us the tracers to do it with!!

jonnyc · February 15, 2021, 07:41 PM

Nice, uncommon box. Too bad both ends are so torn.

Shadow9mm · February 15, 2021, 10:52 PM

Just don't shoot it at an indoor range. Someone did that around here a few years back. Burnt the place down.

jmhyer · February 16, 2021, 10:36 AM

Bill,
That video is fascinating. Amazing how grip, stance, firing positions have change since then. Also, I lost count of the (what today would certainly be considered) safety violations that occurred in that (apparently official) video.

February 15, 2021, 02:14 AM	#3
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Should be safe. The tracer compounds may not "trace" much with age. And may be worth more on the collector market than you realize. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

February 15, 2021, 12:18 PM	#6
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	The U.S. military got .45 ACP ammunition packed in either 50-round boxes or 20-round boxes. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/M1911-WW2-NE...YAAOSwy2pbsqaY https://www.ebay.ca/itm/FRANKFORD-AR...S/193625951986 I have a friend who is a more recent veteran than I am. He was in armor, and he was in the Army during the transition from one tank model to a newer one. (I'm not up on tanks, so don't ask me which ones.) On the older ones, the crews carried M1911A1s, and the tank itself also carried two M3A1 "grease guns." When they transitioned to the newer tank, the sidearm was the M9 Beretta, and the M3A1 was replaced by the M4. I mention this because the "grease gun" used 30-round stick magazines. My armor friend said the 20-round boxes were the way they received their ammunition, not in the more usual 50-round boxes. And I can imagine that tracer would be more useful in a submachine gun than in a pistol. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

February 15, 2021, 02:07 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	In the later 70s, I was there, and the tank was the M60, the side arm was the M1911A1 and the "crew weapons" were M3/M3A1 smg. There was also supposed to be a "dismounted" kit (tripod, etc) for the coax mg and the M85 .50 in the cupola. Never saw any of those on tanks in the field though possibly they were stowed away "deep"... The tank replacing the M60 was the M1 Abrams, which began reaching stateside units in small numbers in 78, and didn't get to Europe until a couple years later. Replacing the M3A1 with the M4 carbine would not have made me happy if I were a tanker. Shortened as much as possible, the M4 is still longer and more awkward in cramped places than the M3. Plus going to a 9mm pistol and 5.56mm rifle removes the small ammo commonality tanker had. And, were I a dismounted tanker with an infantry rifle, odds are high someone would make me infantry, rather than get my butt back in a tank at the earliest opportunity. No, that wouldn't make me happy, at all. If there is no sign of damage or deterioration, WWII .45acp ammo should be fine to shoot in modern guns, though as mentioned, its now become collectable, so shooting it for fun is kind of wasting money. .45ACP tracers were used for training, possibly for signaling but we have flares for that kind of thing, so I don't think that was common. One thing about tracers, they work BOTH WAYS!!! And always remember, that if the enemy is in range, so are YOU! One of the "tricks" we got taught, (but never had to use, thankfully) was to load a tracer as the next to last round in the magazine. The idea being when you shot the tracer, you knew it was time to change magazines, while still having a round chambered while you did it. Don't know if anyone ever really did that, we never did, for one thing they never gave us the tracers to do it with!! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 15, 2021, 07:41 PM	#8
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Nice, uncommon box. Too bad both ends are so torn. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

February 15, 2021, 10:52 PM	#9
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Just don't shoot it at an indoor range. Someone did that around here a few years back. Burnt the place down. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

February 15, 2021, 12:49 AM	#2
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	Well the head stamp says it all. Frankford Arsenal 41. So yes collectable WWII issue tracer ammo. Sometimes issued and used for signaling if you needed help on the ocean. Do not fire in dry grass. Illegal to own in states like California.

February 15, 2021, 11:50 AM	#4
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	They were used for pistol training during WW2. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7J-JNSUu4

February 15, 2021, 11:57 AM	#5
Eddiejoe Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2018 Posts: 206	Thanks for the video and information! I never would have thought WWII.

February 16, 2021, 10:36 AM	#10
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	Bill, That video is fascinating. Amazing how grip, stance, firing positions have change since then. Also, I lost count of the (what today would certainly be considered) safety violations that occurred in that (apparently official) video.