How do you tell correct ball size for 1858?

reddheadnla1974 · December 3, 2008, 10:33 PM

I had an 1851 .44 that took a .454 size ball. It would shave a ring at the very top of the cylinder. Now I have an 1858 .44 remmy. I can put the same size ball in it and it shaves the ball, but it shaves it down in the chamber. Is that normal, or should I go with a bigger size ball? Also should i use a felt wad and crisco? does it hurt to use both? thanks

Fingers McGee · December 3, 2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

I can put the same size ball in it and it shaves the ball, but it shaves it down in the chamber. Is that normal,

Yes, some cylinders have beveled/chamfered chamber mouths and will not cut a ring. They squeeze the whole ball down.

Quote:

or should I go with a bigger size ball?

Unnecessay if the .454 is giving good groups, and you are using a lubed wad - or the dreaded Crisco - to lube and prevent chain fires

Quote:

Also should i use a felt wad and crisco?

I have never found it necessary to use both and IMNSHO crisco is too dad blamed messy - especially in the summer. A lubed wad is all I use.

Quote:

does it hurt to use both?

Only your wallet

freedom475 · December 4, 2008, 12:11 AM

I prefur .457's in all my 44 C&B's, Sometimes harder to find so I bought a cheap LEE mould for about the cost of 100 factory balls.

BoreButter is what I've found to be the best lube...I use this stuff like someone gave it to me. Yeah it blows ALL over the gun but this is what will keep you shooting ALL day long. A simple wipe with a rag and your good to go, or just stuff it in the holster and add some rust preventitive to the leather.

Some of the most fun things in life leave you a little... "messy"/ Wouldn't have it any other way, LOL.

Crico kind of stinks and the felt wads don't have enough lube to keep you shooting for too long....
I have read a lot of post from people asking about there revolvers "tying-up" after just a few shots... I think this is probly why.

I always take at least 100balls with me when I go out. I often shoot them all and wish I had brought more...My guns never sieze up as long as I use borebutter and I don't have to clean the gun to keep it shooting... and clean up at the end of the day is a breeze.

Fingers McGee · December 4, 2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

BoreButter is what I've found to be the best lube...I use this stuff like someone gave it to me. Yeah it blows ALL over the gun but this is what will keep you shooting ALL day long. A simple wipe with a rag and your good to go, or just stuff it in the holster and add some rust preventitive to the leather.

Crico kind of stinks and the felt wads don't have enough lube to keep you shooting for too long....
I have read a lot of post from people asking about there revolvers "tying-up" after just a few shots... I think this is probly why.

+1 for bore butter. I lube my arbors with it & can go 10 or 15 stages without any maintenance. I probably should have prefaced my remarks with the fact that I shoot Colt style pistols and not Remingtons. That dinky little solid cylinder pin is prone to 'tying-up' cause it don't hold much lube. When I shot Remmingtons, I removed the cylinder & relubed the pin with balistol after each stage to keep em running. I don't shoot Remingtons anymore.

FM

Smooth Pate Pete · December 11, 2008, 09:33 AM

I use pre-lubed revolver wads behind the ball with both my 1860 Colt Army and my 1858 Remmie New Army. Never had a problem with them and not at all messy. The only time a revolver is not easy to clean is when you leave it too long. I clean them as soon as I get home.

Hawg · December 11, 2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

The only time a revolver is not easy to clean is when you leave it too long. I clean them as soon as I get home.

I have to disagree with that. I frequently leave mine two or three days before cleaning and they're no harder to clean then than they are right after shooting.

noelf2 · December 11, 2008, 10:27 AM

My Pietta .44 remi cylinders cut a lead ring when I seat the ball, even a slight ring with .451 balls. Who made your remi, and about how old is it? Could the cylinder chambers have been reamed a bit on the end so the balls would be a tighter fit down the barrel? I know that Raider2000 has done some reaming on one of his cylinders to improve accuracy with a new Pietta remi.

In my .44 58 remi repro , putting wads (lubed or not) between the ball and powder will mess up accuracy. I found that .457 ball on top of 35gr goex black (not pinnacle) and a bit of lube (crisco, or beeswax crisco mix) over the ball is the best for my revolver. Just a disclaimer, my remi(s) are steel frame and I'd use less powder if they were brass frame.

grymster2007 · December 11, 2008, 11:07 AM

I've been using wonder wads under .454 balls that shave a good ring. I haven't shot mine enough to figure out how accurate it is and how different loads and loading methodologies affect the accuracy. I'm not all that bright and just hearing the big boom and seeing the flames and smoke suffice to satisfy my entertainment requirements.

Think I'll get some Bore-Butter to try next time out. I also now have some conicals to try..... I'm tired of working; I need to get out and shoot!

Hawg · December 11, 2008, 01:13 PM

Bore butter will work fine this time of year but in summer heat it's just as runny as Crisco.

kwhi43 · December 11, 2008, 04:54 PM

Yes, Bore butter OK this time of year. Summer time it runs down my leg!!

J2. · December 11, 2008, 05:09 PM

Yes, Bore butter OK this time of year. Summer time it runs down my leg!!

That's just wrong

Fingers McGee · December 11, 2008, 07:43 PM

I use Bore Butter to lube the arbors on 1851/1861 Navies and 1860 Armies. Have gone 10 stages in the oven of Summer without relubing or having any problems.

FM

Hawg · December 12, 2008, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Yes, Bore butter OK this time of year. Summer time it runs down my leg!!

That's just wrong

And it's yellow too.

Fingers McGee · December 12, 2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

And it's yellow too.

Unless it's green.

FM

Hawg · December 12, 2008, 01:21 PM

All I can get locally is yellow. Once I use up what I have I probably won't be buying any more.

SavvyJack · December 15, 2008, 08:55 PM

I just got some "wonder wads" recently but have yet to use them. Its all I could get locally...on vacation in Columbus, Ga for Thanksgiving. I only shot a few with borebutter and hated it. Almost turned me off of C&B but I will use it when I have to.

BTW, you cylinder was shipped out this morning and I also got you check today!

Hawg · December 15, 2008, 09:16 PM

Hey Jack. Wonder wads are good but spensive. I make my own and lube with beeswax and crisco. You can stiffen it up and make lube pills to go under the ball but I haven't tried that yet.

Quote:

BTW, you cylinder was shipped out this morning and I also got you check today!

Good deal. Thanks.

grymster2007 · December 15, 2008, 10:31 PM

My big bro wants to get together next week, stop by the new Bass Pro Shop that his step-son works at, then head to the range. I've been using .454 ball in the '58 Remington and they shave a nice ring, but when I was deciding which conical to buy from Raider, I measured the cylinder bores and came up with .446. If BPS has .451 ball, I'll get some of them and see how they shoot. I'm thinkin' they'll still shave a ring and should load a bit easier also.

I'll bring Raider's conicals also and see how well they work.

I'll also see if I can get #10 caps and .319 - .320 ball to shoot the 1863 Pocket Remington. I really like that crooked-barreled little gun and can't wait to try it.

December 4, 2008, 12:11 AM	#3
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	I prefur .457's in all my 44 C&B's, Sometimes harder to find so I bought a cheap LEE mould for about the cost of 100 factory balls. BoreButter is what I've found to be the best lube...I use this stuff like someone gave it to me. Yeah it blows ALL over the gun but this is what will keep you shooting ALL day long. A simple wipe with a rag and your good to go, or just stuff it in the holster and add some rust preventitive to the leather. Some of the most fun things in life leave you a little... "messy"/ Wouldn't have it any other way, LOL. Crico kind of stinks and the felt wads don't have enough lube to keep you shooting for too long.... I have read a lot of post from people asking about there revolvers "tying-up" after just a few shots... I think this is probly why. I always take at least 100balls with me when I go out. I often shoot them all and wish I had brought more...My guns never sieze up as long as I use borebutter and I don't have to clean the gun to keep it shooting... and clean up at the end of the day is a breeze. Last edited by freedom475; December 4, 2008 at 12:18 AM.

December 11, 2008, 09:33 AM	#5
Smooth Pate Pete Junior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 2	I use pre-lubed revolver wads behind the ball with both my 1860 Colt Army and my 1858 Remmie New Army. Never had a problem with them and not at all messy. The only time a revolver is not easy to clean is when you leave it too long. I clean them as soon as I get home. __________________ Smooth Pate Pete "Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

December 11, 2008, 10:27 AM	#7
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	My Pietta .44 remi cylinders cut a lead ring when I seat the ball, even a slight ring with .451 balls. Who made your remi, and about how old is it? Could the cylinder chambers have been reamed a bit on the end so the balls would be a tighter fit down the barrel? I know that Raider2000 has done some reaming on one of his cylinders to improve accuracy with a new Pietta remi. In my .44 58 remi repro , putting wads (lubed or not) between the ball and powder will mess up accuracy. I found that .457 ball on top of 35gr goex black (not pinnacle) and a bit of lube (crisco, or beeswax crisco mix) over the ball is the best for my revolver. Just a disclaimer, my remi(s) are steel frame and I'd use less powder if they were brass frame. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 11, 2008, 11:07 AM	#8
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	I've been using wonder wads under .454 balls that shave a good ring. I haven't shot mine enough to figure out how accurate it is and how different loads and loading methodologies affect the accuracy. I'm not all that bright and just hearing the big boom and seeing the flames and smoke suffice to satisfy my entertainment requirements. Think I'll get some Bore-Butter to try next time out. I also now have some conicals to try..... I'm tired of working; I need to get out and shoot! __________________ grym

December 11, 2008, 05:09 PM	#11
J2. Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2008 Location: The Real America Posts: 149	Yes, Bore butter OK this time of year. Summer time it runs down my leg!! That's just wrong __________________ "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

December 3, 2008, 10:33 PM	#1
reddheadnla1974 Member Join Date: August 18, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 71	How do you tell correct ball size for 1858? I had an 1851 .44 that took a .454 size ball. It would shave a ring at the very top of the cylinder. Now I have an 1858 .44 remmy. I can put the same size ball in it and it shaves the ball, but it shaves it down in the chamber. Is that normal, or should I go with a bigger size ball? Also should i use a felt wad and crisco? does it hurt to use both? thanks

December 11, 2008, 01:13 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Bore butter will work fine this time of year but in summer heat it's just as runny as Crisco.

December 11, 2008, 04:54 PM	#10
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	Ya Yes, Bore butter OK this time of year. Summer time it runs down my leg!!

December 11, 2008, 07:43 PM	#12
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I use Bore Butter to lube the arbors on 1851/1861 Navies and 1860 Armies. Have gone 10 stages in the oven of Summer without relubing or having any problems. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 12, 2008, 01:21 PM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	All I can get locally is yellow. Once I use up what I have I probably won't be buying any more.

December 15, 2008, 08:55 PM	#16
SavvyJack Junior member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 2	Hiya Hawg I just got some "wonder wads" recently but have yet to use them. Its all I could get locally...on vacation in Columbus, Ga for Thanksgiving. I only shot a few with borebutter and hated it. Almost turned me off of C&B but I will use it when I have to. BTW, you cylinder was shipped out this morning and I also got you check today!

December 15, 2008, 10:31 PM	#18
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	My big bro wants to get together next week, stop by the new Bass Pro Shop that his step-son works at, then head to the range. I've been using .454 ball in the '58 Remington and they shave a nice ring, but when I was deciding which conical to buy from Raider, I measured the cylinder bores and came up with .446. If BPS has .451 ball, I'll get some of them and see how they shoot. I'm thinkin' they'll still shave a ring and should load a bit easier also. I'll bring Raider's conicals also and see how well they work. I'll also see if I can get #10 caps and .319 - .320 ball to shoot the 1863 Pocket Remington. I really like that crooked-barreled little gun and can't wait to try it. __________________ grym