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Old January 17, 2020, 08:19 PM   #1
GaryED50
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Beretta 92fs, or Taurus 92, or Girsan 92fs copy

My next purchase is going to be a 9mm and I want the Beretta 92fs but as I'm sure you know its a bit pricey especially the A1 and A3. given my income I'm considering either the Taurus copy or the Girsan 92fs copy.

anyone have any thoughts? advice needed

thanks

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Old January 17, 2020, 08:58 PM   #2
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I really like the Taurus PT92 for the frame mounted safety/decocker.

Folks will inevitably tell horror stories of how their father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate once owned a Taurus which violently exploded when dry fired, but I have actual, firsthand experience with a total of five Taurus firearms which have all been fine.
I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as the subject comes up, Taurus' overall quality control is no worse than Ruger's, it just seems worse because Taurus' customer service is among the worst in the industry, so when somebody gets a lemon and has to deal with them, it ultimately results in a negative story, whereas Ruger has perhaps the best customer service in the industry.

So yeah, if it were me, then I would go with the Taurus PT92, making sure to give it a thorough function test and examination at the gunshop prior to completing the sale.
However, if you don't want to roll the dice and want the absolute best, then get a Beretta 92. A couple years ago there were a lot of Italian police trade-in Beretta 92s being sold for about $300, so even if you don't want to spend a lot of money you may be able to poke around on importer websites like Century Arms International to see if anyone still has any cheap police trade-ins.
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Old January 17, 2020, 09:10 PM   #3
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You could wait for a good deal on a Beretta, they come around pretty often or go with the Taurus versions, they use Berettas original tooling and you will save at least $100 over the best priced Beretta.
I went with the Beretta and it is my favorite auto that I own.
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Old January 17, 2020, 09:56 PM   #4
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Beretta surplus abound.
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Old January 18, 2020, 04:41 AM   #5
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Used Taurus 92's are super cheap on gunbroker and I plan to get one when a good looking one shows up for a good price. The Beretta's are fine, I'm sure, but I don't see what they have that makes them worth more than a Taurus other than the Beretta logo.

Same thing with the Bersa .380 pistols vs a Walther.

I think people tend to forget that South American countries like Argentina, Brazil, Chile are not 3rd world countries on par with places like Honduras, Haiti, Bangladesh. They're far above that and they may be Socialist and had tin-pot dictators in the past, but they're majority European heritage, especially in the manufacturing industries, and thus have that intrinsic high level manufacturing skill. We all like to look to Europe and the US as having top tier manufacturing, better than what South Americans can do, yet some of the worst guns ever made have come from Germany and the United States.
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Old January 18, 2020, 08:57 AM   #6
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I pretty much never buy a new gun when I know I can save a considerable amount over the new price by finding a used example.

I have owned a Taurus 92 and I have nothing bad to say about them at all, the frame safety is a definite plus in my book. But........as has already been mentioned, Beretta's abound on the use market and great deals can be found. Last year I picked up a like new 92FS for $350. I don't know what it is about them, but I seem to be more accurate with Beretta's than any other handgun.
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Old January 18, 2020, 10:07 AM   #7
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I would strongly prefer the Taurus PT92 over the Beretta. My PT92AFS (pre-rail with a safety/decock) is my most trusted 9mm, and the first handgun I'd pick up if I absolutely had to hit something first shot. I own quite a few much more expensive and "better" handguns, but I have more confidence in that PT than I do with anything else, which in my eyes makes it my "best" pistol.
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Old January 18, 2020, 11:39 AM   #8
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I'd say you can't really go wrong buying used as long as you take your time with it. You'll save a considerable amount.

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Old January 18, 2020, 12:18 PM   #9
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Thank you everyone. I'm a little surprised no ones mentioned the Girsan 92 yet?

Gary
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Old January 18, 2020, 12:19 PM   #10
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I'm one of those people who owned a Taurus and had to deal with their abysmal customer service and swore I'd never own another one but...I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Taurus 92...seems to be one of their tried and true models and everyone I know who owns one has been very happy with them.
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Old January 18, 2020, 12:26 PM   #11
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A friend got the Girsan Regard and loves it and he is a die-hard Beretta 92 guy. Personally, I refuse to get anything from Turkey but that's just me.
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Old January 20, 2020, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Beretta surplus abound.
This is the correct answer.

Plenty of very good-condition 92FS examples out there for ~$400-$450ish. Why bother with a clone?
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Old January 20, 2020, 10:35 AM   #13
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If budget is really that tight...
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Originally Posted by 2wheelwander View Post
Beretta surplus abound.
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Old January 20, 2020, 02:54 PM   #14
Forte S+W
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Quote:
This is the correct answer.

Plenty of very good-condition 92FS examples out there for ~$400-$450ish. Why bother with a clone?
As much as I agree that police trade-in Beretta 92s are an outstanding value, I still feel the need to offer a counter-point to this statement.

Because the clones are still generally high quality firearms which can be had for $100 less in brand new condition, whereas police trade-in Berettas are obviously used and may require replacement springs, so the upfront cost of a police trade-in isn't necessarily the final cost either.

In addition, not all police trade-in Beretta 92s are the standard 92FS/M9A1 configuration either, whereas most clones are either based on the 92FS/M9A1 or have been upgraded to equal them in terms of features.
Keep in mind that the Beretta 92 design dates back to the 1970s and has undergone numerous revisions/refinements since then. (The latest 92 iteration is the Gen 7 model M9A3.)
For example, a year or two ago there were a ton of imported Italian police trade-in Beretta 92S models for around $300, but the 92S is an older 2nd Generation model which was produced from 1978 to 1982. (For reference, the 92FS is a 5th Generation model, and it isn't even the latest model, which is the 7th Generation M9A3.)

Last but not least, the current generation Taurus PT92AFS was actually the basis for the Beretta 92A1, thus making it the rough equivalent of a 6th Generation Beretta 92, at roughly 2/3rd the cost. Oh, and for all the flack Taurus gets, the PT92 is widely acknowledged as their best firearm, which should come as no surprise considering that it's made to the same specifications as the Beretta 92.
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I know that Balistics Gel is merely a tissue simulent, but until the day comes in which convicted registered sex offenders are put to good use as a testing medium for ballistics, it's the best we've got. Besides, Ballistics Gel is probably the closest thing to the sort of human sludge that typically requires the use of a firearm in self-defense.

Last edited by Forte S+W; January 20, 2020 at 03:07 PM.
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Old January 20, 2020, 03:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fishbed77 View Post
This is the correct answer.

Plenty of very good-condition 92FS examples out there for ~$400-$450ish. Why bother with a clone?
Because the Taurus has the safety/decocker in the correct position for human thumbs to reach, and not on the reciprocating slide. I still do not understand why anyone would even consider that a reasonable option - it is IMHO a design flaw.
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Old January 20, 2020, 03:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Officer's Match View Post
Because the Taurus has the safety/decocker in the correct position for human thumbs to reach, and not on the reciprocating slide. I still do not understand why anyone would even consider that a reasonable option - it is IMHO a design flaw.
I can operate it just fine.
So can my small framed wife.
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Old January 20, 2020, 06:36 PM   #17
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I paid $429 for my beretta 92FS brand new a year ago. Keep your eye out for sales. The Taurus PT92 is also an excellent pistol, I've been eyeing the stainless one.
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Old January 20, 2020, 07:50 PM   #18
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"It’s Not Just a Name, Folks

I assert that Taurus products as a whole are not intended to be heirloom grade guns. As a company, their lack of QA/QC is legendary among serious users. Just because a company is using Beretta machinery in a Beretta factory and with Beretta plans does not mean they will build a gun like Beretta. "
https://www.survivalsullivan.com/ber...s-taurus-pt92/

I would say it comes down to what your budget is. For myself, there is no question to it, I would get the Beretta. Or save up for the difference. Too just buy a Taurus now, and then later kick yourself for not getting the real thing, could just cause you frustrations and actually more money.
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Old January 20, 2020, 08:36 PM   #19
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Beretta 92fs can be purchased for fair money. Friend bought a mint pre owned 6 months ago for $400 and change. I don't own one as it is not in my interest area but they are a quality piece imo.

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Old January 20, 2020, 08:54 PM   #20
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I have had a PT-99 (the 92 with adjustable sights) for 29 years. I have no idea of the round count, certainly 1000's. I shot several hundred reloads of Blue Dot pushing a 115 grain bullet at 1360 fps, which is hot. It is accurate, has never failed to feed or eject, and I like the 1911 style safety, since that is familiar to my thumb.
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Old January 20, 2020, 09:33 PM   #21
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Question: What is the definition of "heirloom quality" precisely?

I ask because I've seen plenty of folks on forums show off all manner of firearms, including the el cheapo guns of decades past like Iver Johnson, Charter Arms, as well as various old European brands I've never even heard of before, claiming that they were family heirlooms, yet apparently nowadays only premium brand firearms can be heirlooms, and only if they're all metal.

Yes, apparently a Glock 17 can never be a heirloom because elitists on the interwebs say so. Nevermind that their grandfather's treasured S&W Victory / Model 10 service revolver was basically the Glock 17 of its time, it's a heirloom based on their arbitrary definition.

So who's to say that future generations won't be fawning over the "superior craftsmanship" of Glocks, M&Ps, SRs, SDs, XDs, etc compared to whatever Hand Phasers, Blasters, or Phased Plasma pistols they take for granted?

"Oh man, I'll tell ya, they don't make 'em like they used to... Just look at that beautiful, injection-molded, CNC machined, teflon-coated masterpiece. Back in those days they used real DuPont Glass-Filled Nylon frames, Alloy Steel slides, and MIM. Nowadays all we've got are these cheap 3D printed poly-alloy frames, moon metal slides, and whatever newfangled gizmos make them so efficient. Yep, these things aren't heirloom quality."
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I know that Balistics Gel is merely a tissue simulent, but until the day comes in which convicted registered sex offenders are put to good use as a testing medium for ballistics, it's the best we've got. Besides, Ballistics Gel is probably the closest thing to the sort of human sludge that typically requires the use of a firearm in self-defense.
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Old January 20, 2020, 11:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
"It’s Not Just a Name, Folks

I assert that Taurus products as a whole are not intended to be heirloom grade guns. As a company, their lack of QA/QC is legendary among serious users. Just because a company is using Beretta machinery in a Beretta factory and with Beretta plans does not mean they will build a gun like Beretta. "
https://www.survivalsullivan.com/ber...s-taurus-pt92/

I would say it comes down to what your budget is. For myself, there is no question to it, I would get the Beretta. Or save up for the difference. Too just buy a Taurus now, and then later kick yourself for not getting the real thing, could just cause you frustrations and actually more money.
After twenty years of ownership, I'm pretty sure I'll not regret buying the better pistol, which in this case is the Taurus. Slide mounted levers are a poor design. As an avid shooter with many "boutique" marques (Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Springfield Armory Customshop, HK, etc) I am not one to promote second tier products, and I'll flat out tell anyone my PT92AFS is a fine weapon I'm proud to own.
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Old January 20, 2020, 11:50 PM   #23
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Does anyone know where Girsan puts the safety? Slide, or frame?
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Old January 21, 2020, 12:57 AM   #24
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I bought the decocker kit from Beretta's website. Pretty easy install and now I don't worry about it being a safety.

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Old January 21, 2020, 01:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
"It’s Not Just a Name, Folks

I assert that Taurus products as a whole are not intended to be heirloom grade guns. As a company, their lack of QA/QC is legendary among serious users. Just because a company is using Beretta machinery in a Beretta factory and with Beretta plans does not mean they will build a gun like Beretta. "
https://www.survivalsullivan.com/ber...s-taurus-pt92/

I would say it comes down to what your budget is. For myself, there is no question to it, I would get the Beretta. Or save up for the difference. Too just buy a Taurus now, and then later kick yourself for not getting the real thing, could just cause you frustrations and actually more money.
Again, another one who believes that every single firearm purchased by someone has to be a family heirloom that is passed down for generations and not something that should be enjoyed by the person who bought the gun in his lifetime.

I can only imagine the mental image some have when they buy a top teir brand gun vs a cheaper clone. It must be like:

Quote:
An old man in his last days gets up from his deathbed, hobbles over to his closet, pulls out a dusty box with said gun inside and hands it to his 45 year old son while telling him, "I purchased this heirloom grade a long time ago and kept it unfired so that I could one day give it to my son so he could keep it unfired and give it to his son because it's well known guns are meant to be looked at and shot little."
It makes no sense, not when I've read so many posts on forums like this where someone buys a pistol, didn't like how one time he got a light primer strike on steel case ammo, declared the gun to be junk, sent it in for warranty, got it back and immediately sold it. Yeah, cuz for those types they really need heirloom quality.
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